Is Grand Prix series ready to downsize to 5 events?

[lariko]

Women's is missing many of the best women in the world, the lifting of the age limit has thinned out the senior ranks. In addition, the lifting of the age limit has taken a lot of the pressure of senior women to improve their skating they just don't have the same pressure to maintain their spots in senior teams. A mediocrity has seeped in.

Also, there's been a concerted campaign to push particular skaters from particular regions since after the last Olympics, and these skaters that they tried to engineer as the stars of the sport have developed bad habits because they haven't had to correct their flaws. Now they are withdrawing from tournaments because they can literally not even complete a combo any longer. The judges did these skaters are huge disservice.

Luckily the junior season has been quite compelling, owing in part to the lifting of the age rule. It's probably where the main interest lies now. There's also a quite compelling domestic senior and junior GP season running concurrently at the moment. I really encourage you to watch it if you enjoy high quality skating and competitive events.

I watch everything. Can't say that Russian senior women division is doing any differently than international. They can also use a catch up break and the best performers there had a break just like in internationals. It's exactly the same. Russians were the first to reduce number of events--wisely--because they were wearing down their field with extended season for absolutely everyone. And that full length nosebleed free skate that shouldn’t have happened was from Russia. The officials on both sides will end up driving whoever is left into the ground with trying to keep up the appearances.

 

[TallyT]

I really encourage you to watch it if you enjoy high quality skating and competitive events.

I did watch some and was bored to death by the pretty well chop and change, pretty well characterless girls your favourite country is producing. If I want to watch cardboard characters jumpjumpjump and fake-emote, I can do that much better with anime thank you.

And it ain't only the women's discipline where the push for powerful feds is on, and it isn't anything new (Sochi and the aftermath, anyone?)

 

[rabidline]

After NHK, my amateur observation is that we're better served with fixing the FS format, rather than losing an entire GP event. The SP were decently skated across the board, the FS is where things tend to fall apart.

 

[lariko]

If anything, NKH had a surprising number of very good, clean FSs. Except a guy who was injured...which brings me back to the whole less events/more breaks...

 

[Skating91]

I watch everything. Can't say that Russian senior women division is doing any differently than international. They can also use a catch up break and the best performers there had a break just like in internationals. It's exactly the same. Russians were the first to reduce number of events--wisely--because they were wearing down their field with extended season for absolutely everyone. And that full length nosebleed free skate that shouldn’t have happened was from Russia. The officials on both sides will end up driving whoever is left into the ground with trying to keep up the appearances.

This season in women's will be the third World's in a row with the many of the best skaters missing but the same faces for the most part, except skaters I suppose like Pinzaronne, Repond, Lin-Gracey (she doesn't get the judging favours of others in her fed for some reason), but they aren't going to challenge the top skaters. They lifted this age rule with the idea that if the audience sees the same skaters every year winning medals they'll develop a deeper connection but it seems the opposite has happened people have become bored with it. Next year in women's Jia Shin goes to seniors, but of the top juniors that's about it. It will be much the same next year as well. Sakamoto has maintained a high level thankfully.

I think the top skaters (all the top skaters in the world) need to be competing more often with more visibility. How many times per day would Sakamoto run through her programs? What's the harm in performing a couple more times in competition?

Maybe even reduce GP stages to 8 skaters instead of 12. Maybe just 6. Lifts the importance of Challenger events as well, while maintaining a high quality product for the GP stages.

 

[Skating91]

Also, need to give these GP stages that nations willing to fill the arenas. Look at Skate America and Skate Canada small arenas only half filled. Compare what the Lithuanians did last year with Europeans filling a huge modern arena with an enthusiastic crowd. Take it off the Canadians or Americans for one year give it to somewhere like Lithuania, it might force them to lift their game. It looks bad on TV watching an event in a shabby arena half filled, compared to how good Europeans looked last year in a bright modern arena full of enthusiastic people.

 

[TT_Fin]

It is interesting how unpopular FS is compared to 80's or 90's though there is much more to watch, except few countries. In Finland Synchro is popular.

I have a good example how totally lost some people are about FS. I checked from an evening post schedule if national TV has rights to broadcast FInland's GP (it has). There was: "Taitoluistelun SM". This means figure skating nationals. It was written so for every single event. I gave them feedback. Let's see if they correct it. If they don't, they don't care. And probably press is similar as it has been at recent events. They write almost nothing about it - maybe a little article at sports section, where are big articles about other sports, mostly hockey at this time of year. NHL hockey gets more column space. They get interested only if there happens something historical, scandals or strange.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think it is ready to drop one event. The rift is obvious, the athletes are not transfering in sufficient numbers to fill out the ranks to create meaningful competition or a good show, so, imo, it's time to consolidate until seniors pick up.

But if Russia comes back and can match its past teams then we need 6. Truth is we can't always have a peak and maybe this is a rare vallley for skating.

 

[DancingCactus]

Russia won't come back.

 

[Azikin]

But if Russia comes back and can match its past teams then we need 6. Truth is we can't always have a peak and maybe this is a rare vallley for skating.

I agree, hopefully it will be soon. I think it will.

 

[lilimum]

Women's is missing many of the best women in the world,

not the women missing - the best kids missing. And if you prefere to watch kids tha adults, do it. I hope that the increase of age will protect the young kids in the future. Of course we will see perhaps no Ultra-Cs in women competitions anymore, most of the quadruple have been of a very poor technical level anyway, pre-rotated and cheated. I would go even one step more far: increase the minimun age of Juniors and and set a limit of technical content in Juniors and novice. In other sport this is common. In athletics triple jump competitions start in the age of 16 to protect the health of growing kids.
During the last 15 years I had insights in the sport I saw too many motivated ant talented kids that have to give up due to health reasons (multiple stress fractures, water in joints, vertebral gliding etc etc.) not to say what mental impact that has. In FS are still to many parents, coaches, officials in place not caring about physical and mental health of the skaters. On the contrary, even for ISU workshops coaches are booked that are offering diuretics to young girls to loose weight.
And again, yes, perhaps the level is decreasing, if ultra-C is the only benchark. Does that mean that you would also support unlimited use of doping because the world records in femal athletics are more than 30 years old ?

 

[Andrina]

I will never understand why Russia wants to come back. I mean, they constanly claim having the best athletes in the world, with the most ultra from all ultra c elements. With the most dancing and coupling teams on the ice dance and couples circuits.

And yet, they badly want to compete in those ailing, degrading ISU events with skilless and lazy Westerns who dare to speak about eating disorders, clean sport, fair scores, and life outside the ice rink. Why? Why not stay at home and compete in national competitions with the best skaters of the entire galaxy?

To the initial topic: the GP series is doing well and should be maintained as it is.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

I would not want to have less events. I feel like the series is over in no time and I love that the events are possible to watch on a day and doesn´t feel too long. That we can look forward to weekends to weekends as it gets darker week by week it´s just perfect to keep this time of year lighter.

With the way it´s now, you will have the top skaters - but there is also room for a few "lower" ranked skaters that gets a great chance to show themselves and build their reputation.

If we cut out events, it would only push the top skaters in a position they would more easily maintain their top ranking because of 1) GP series scores are often higher then Challengers, and since GP selections are partly based on SB scores they will basically secure next years GP once they entered the warmth of the GP series 2) If there is less skaters - also easier to get ranking points which again will help you keep your position in the top ranking, which again helps at Championships to maintain your ranking because of inflated late group scores, which again gives you more ranking point, and you are in a very good loop where you don´t have to work as hard as lower ranked teams to get there. We would be lying to ourself if this wasn´t the case already, and I think body of work should benefit you, but there should be a balance where it´s also possible to get in a position where you have a decent chance of actually climb the rankings when you worked hard for it.

It´s already very difficult to get a spot at GP in ID, and just imagine how much more difficult it would be if there were less events.

 

[lariko]

But if Russia comes back and can match its past teams then we need 6. Truth is we can't always have a peak and maybe this is a rare vallley for skating.

Russia won't come back. They changed gears completely this year in making FS strictly national sport/entertainment and ISU has strengthened its ties/funding with China. The writing is on the wall.

 

[dorispulaski]

I would be for adding an additional 2 teams to GP ice dance events. There are too many good teams who don't get an event!

 

[lariko]

I will never understand why Russia wants to come back. I mean, they constanly claim having the best athletes in the world, with the most ultra from all ultra c elements. With the most dancing and coupling teams on the ice dance and couples circuits.

And yet, they badly want to compete in those ailing, degrading ISU events with skilless and lazy Westerns who dare to speak about eating disorders, clean sport, fair scores, and life outside the ice rink. Why? Why not stay at home and compete in national competitions with the best skaters of the entire galaxy?

To the initial topic: the GP series is doing well and should be maintained as it is.

They no longer do judging by how their competitions has changed. The commentating that used to be 'if only they could see this perfection' is now 'nobody loves you more than those at home'. This year scoring boxes in seniors are all translated in Russian. Forget the old practice of having a commentator in English for their Nationals. They took everything off YouTube and invested in creating a lot of education--in Russian--and experiment with their own competitions, adding and changing the new disciplines pretty much and strongly emphasizing developments in different regions of Russia, which region each athlete is coming from, which school they reperesent. Transfers are being discouraged. They are doing their own thing, so they are moving away even more visibly from reunification than the ISU.

To me, neither Internationals, nor Russians are doing better than they did undivided, but I accept that it is two different entities and treat them as such. I don't expect this to change.

 

[lariko]

I would not want to have less events. I feel like the series is over in no time and I love that the events are possible to watch on a day and doesn´t feel too long. That we can look forward to weekends to weekends as it gets darker week by week it´s just perfect to keep this time of year lighter.

With the way it´s now, you will have the top skaters - but there is also room for a few "lower" ranked skaters that gets a great chance to show themselves and build their reputation.

If we cut out events, it would only push the top skaters in a position they would more easily maintain their top ranking because of 1) GP series scores are often higher then Challengers, and since GP selections are partly based on SB scores they will basically secure next years GP once they entered the warmth of the GP series 2) If there is less skaters - also easier to get ranking points which again will help you keep your position in the top ranking, which again helps at Championships to maintain your ranking because of inflated late group scores, which again gives you more ranking point, and you are in a very good loop where you don´t have to work as hard as lower ranked teams to get there. We would be lying to ourself if this wasn´t the case already, but I think body of work should benefit you, but there should be a balance where it´s also possible to get in a position where you have a decent chance of actually climb the rankings when you worked hard for it.

It´s already very difficult to get a spot at GP in ID, and just imagine how much more difficult it would be if there were less events.

I feel Ice Dance is where it should be. It should be hard to get a spot at GP, only the very best. It is Grand Prix after all. That's why ID is currently watchable in every event unlike other disciplines, and it would be even more so with 1 less event, with a bit higher cut off. The Challengers are international competitions for the teams who are polishing their craft or having a low year. The top ID teams have better technical ability so they can invest more in performance. The technical aspects of ID are less visible but God knows, there are many.

 

[lariko]

Next year in women's Jia Shin goes to seniors, but of the top juniors that's about it.

Jia Shin is the example of how extended junior timeline for her generations of skaters that started under the old system is detrimental. She accumulated too many injuries and now needs a period of rest to enter the second, senior phase of her career. She shouldn't have completed this year to have time to rest, regroup and enter seniors in the best form to create a sensation for the fans who staunchily ignore juniors. Or she will have it a bit later, and we will have an illusion of 'juniors are not as good as seniors' and a 'come back'. Overall, it has to be 2 distinctive periods of competing with a significant break in between to support health and growth. The current '13 to 17' and '17 to as long as your back/ankles holds' is unsustainable when every absence in seniors leaves a gaping hole in the ranks.

The woman who is actually coing into seniors next year after a break, then a strong last junior season is Ami Nakai of Japan who has ultra c.

Those breaks should not be due to unexpected trauma and injury, they should be a planned part of the skater's career, because the paradigm now is a career choice to compete until thirty and even longer in all disciplines

 

[moonkat]

Jia Shin is the example of how extended junior timeline for her generations of skaters that started under the old system is detrimental. She accumulated too many injuries and now needs a period of rest to enter the second, senior phase of her career. She shouldn't have completed this year to have time to rest, regroup and enter seniors in the best form to create a sensation for the fans who staunchily ignore juniors. Or she will have it a bit later, and we will have an illusion of 'juniors are not as good as seniors' and a 'come back'. Overall, it has to be 2 distinctive periods of competing with a significant break in between to support health and growth. The current '13 to 17' and '17 to as long as your back/ankles holds' is unsustainable when every absence in seniors leaves a gaping hole in the ranks.

The woman who is actually coing into seniors next year after a break, then a strong last junior season is Ami Nakai of Japan who has ultra c.

Those breaks should not be due to unexpected trauma and injury, they should be a planned part of the skater's career, because the paradigm now is a career choice to compete until thirty and even longer in all disciplines

Korea has too many mandatory ranking competitions. They won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[lariko]

Though, in the interests of fairness, men's free from Krasnoyarsk was as surprisingly stable as the NHK one. Save for the lesser knee bends, the falls and meltdowns took a break this week.