Figure skating and the philosophy of sport

[Anna K.]

We have had many threads about figure skating being an art. Now, in the direct aftermath of the Olympic Games, shall we talk about figure skating being a sport?

Have you learned some good philosophy of sport from your favorite figure skaters?
What's your own philosophy of sport and what is the role of figure skating in it?
Please, share these and other related thoughts and quotes in this thread!

I'll start with the most inspirational skating quote that I have ever come across and it comes from 9 y.o. Blakely Schroeder (you can find her full story on this thread):

"Skating makes me feel like I can try new things without being afraid to fall, because you just remember to get back up again and keep trying,"

They say that figure skating is an expensive sport. Well, if your child can learn this, it's worth the fortune.

 

[kiimnu]

Yuzuru Hanyu once said that "Artistry is founded upon absolute technical prowess." While many people view artistry as an opposite of technical content, Yuzuru considers them as a whole, like they work together. His programs are so great because he excels at technique and transitions and use of the blades, and those are essential factors to portray the artistic side of a performance.​

I saw the above comment about Yuzuru from a few years ago, and I absolutely agree with their take.

Here's another quote from Yuzuru that I think about at least once a week to motivate myself:

"If you cannot do it, practice until you can do it. If you can do it, then practice till you can do it perfectly. If you can do it perfectly, then practice until you can do it perfectly every time."

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

One of my fave quotes from a figure skater that applies to sport and regular life.

"When the going got tough, I really had to draw on many of the same competitive instincts I did when I was skating. I really had to put my head down and stay positive. I had to fight."--Peggy Fleming

 

[Mathman]

There actually is an academic subfield called the philosophy of sport, and a scholarly consortium called the International Association for the Philosophy of Sport. It publishes a peer-reviewed journal called the Journal of the Philosophy of Sport.

Plato had quite a bit to say on this subject,mainly in the Republic -- for instance that the harmony of body and soul that is necessary for a well-governed state dictates that athletic training should go hand in had with education in music and the arts. (Plato himself was a wrestler.)

In fact, the two main branches of the discipline are of spot-on relevance to figure skating: (1) Ethics -- cheating versus fair play and (2) Aesthetics -- beauty in athletic excellence.

 

[Mathman]

Alysa Liu:

What did you feel when you came off the ice after the short program?

"I was wishing I could stay out there longer and do it some more!" (paraphrase).

 

[Skati]

Quote from Donovan Carrillo

Understanding that the greatness of the athlete is not in having everything perfect, but in knowing how to get up in the face of the obstacle. Earlier it seemed that only the result justified the effort. Today the effort itself is already part of the reward. ”
"When you change that mentality, you no longer live waiting for applause or rating to feel like it was worth it." You start to enjoy the practice, the error, the repeat, the invisible work. And that changes everything, because you no longer depend on the outcome to feel complete. ”

 

[Mathman]

By the way, the publisher of the journal mentioned above in post #4 just today sent me a preprint of an article titled "Scuba diving across cultures, motivation and well-being."

 

[DancingCactus]

Every person involved in sports can probably learn something from Alysa Liu. Or sports manga

If you don't enjoy what you're doing, what is the point, really?

 

[Anna K.]

Every person involved in sports can probably learn something from Alysa Liu. Or sports manga

If you don't enjoy what you're doing, what is the point, really?

This makes great material for sports manga indeed
When you do something for a hobby - skating, for example - it goes without saying that you enjoy what you do. When it stops being fun, you stop doing it. Because what's the point otherwise?

As soon as you get involved in a competition, this point gets challenged. Competitors who outskate you are annoying. The coach says that you should work harder to get better results. The workout is tedious and no more fun but you work, get the results, it's satisfying and you want more. But do you still enjoy what you do? Or, are you losing the point? What's your true motivation? There are philosophic questions, drama, conflicted feelings, and many, many chapters of excellent sports manga

 

[DancingCactus]

Now I'm in the mood to re-read Slam Dunk once again...

 

[lariko]

It's a re-quote of an original, but Russian skaters/commentators use it quite a bit. It's a great imposter syndrome buster.

If not you, then who? If not now, then when?

 

[Mathman]

It's a re-quote of an original, but Russian skaters/commentators use it quite a bit. It's a great imposter syndrome buster.

If not you, then who? If not now, then when?

I looked it up. The original was by the great Jewish scholar Hillel the Elder (1st century BCE). It was also a prominent call to action in the U.S. civil rights movement in the 1960s.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know if this counts as a "philosophy of skating," but one of my all-time figure skating quotes was by Shizuka Arakawa:

"In a way, it was a good thing that my mind went blank when I took the ice. By the time I came to, I was halfway through my program."

 

[4everchan]

Some of the quotes read here, I have heard them as a kid from some piano teachers. So I am not sure they can be credited to figure skaters
I think these come from decades if not centuries ago, from the disciplined practice of artists.

For instance, artistry is based on technique. That's nothing new and definitely not exclusive to figure skating.
Same with practicing for skills.

But sure, they apply to figure skating too.

 

[yfan1]

I don't know if this counts as a "philosophy of skating," but one of my all-time figure skating quotes was by Shizuka Arakawa:

"In a way, it was a good thing that my mind went blank when I took the ice. By the time I came to, I was halfway through my program."

I think it's not really a philosophy of skating as much as it is the philosophy of doing a job that involves a degree of craftsmanship and the ability to perform on demand... trusting your training. You really need to be able to trust your training and turn your brain off unless strictly needed.

I think CoP has interfered with this ability so much. It constantly makes you think about every point. Oh you missed this jump, now where else can I gain points... once you start doing that, it snowballs.

Some of the quotes read here, I have heard them as a kid from some piano teachers. So I am not sure they can be credited to figure skaters

Haha, posted at the same time!

 

[Anna K.]

Talking about re-quotes, @Mathman can you track down who was the first one to say "knowing is not doing"?
I have heard it from Deniss Vasiljevs so many times during the last couple of years

It's fitting to whatever context that involves doing or knowing, but its sooo true as a sports quote!

 

[Mathman]

Talking about re-quotes, @Mathman can you track down who was the first one to say "knowing is not doing"?
I have heard it from Deniss Vasiljevs so many times during the last couple of years

OK, so I consulted Google AI overview and they gave first priority to martial arts actor Bruce Lee.

Digging a little deeper, "thought without action" brought up versions by Mahatma Gandhi, Aristotle, and the New Testament. (Well, that was Faith without Works, but anyway...)

The opposite, Action without "Rede" (Counsel) was the nickname of English local king Ethelred the Unready ("Uncounseled") -- he was unready for the invasion of the Danes. I also learned that the name Alfred is not AL FRED but "alf - red" -- counseled by the elves.

 

[Anna K.]

OK, so I consulted Google AI overview and they gave first priority to martial arts actor Bruce Lee.

Digging a little deeper, "thought without action" brought up versions by Mahatma Gandhi, Aristotle, and the New Testament. (Well, that was Faith without Works, but anyway...)

The opposite, Action without "Rede" (Counsel) was the nickname of English local king Ethelred the Unready ("Uncounseled") -- he was unready for the invasion of the Danes. I also learned that the name Alfred is not AL FRED but "alf - red" -- counseled by the elves.

I should have known better than asking

Well, the context was "I know how to do it [the figure skating element] but knowing how to do something doesn't meant that it is done yet. Knowing and doing are two different things". I somehow doubt that Bruce Lee meant exactly this [talking about a martial arts element in his case]. Although... It would be cool if he actually did!

 

[Anna K.]

Plato had quite a bit to say on this subject,mainly in the Republic -- for instance that the harmony of body and soul that is necessary for a well-governed state dictates that athletic training should go hand in had with education in music and the arts. (Plato himself was a wrestler.)

So I went through the actual quotes.
It's interesting that Plato never talks about competing athletes.

He talks about physique & mind of an ideal citizen when he says:
"He who is only an athlete is too crude, too vulgar, too much a savage. He who is a scholar only is too soft, to effeminate. The ideal citizen is the scholar athlete, the man of thought and the man of action." - The Republic, 410b-d

He also talks about the physique & mind of military men:
"Anyone who is going to be a truly good guardian of our community, then, will have a philosopher’s love of knowledge, and will be passionate, quick on his feet, and strong.
- The Republic, 376c
"And our guardians are, in fact, both warriors and philosophers.’
- The Republic, 525

Similarly, in a Socrates' quote via Xenophon, a well developed body is seen as a goal in itself:
"It is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit. But you cannot see that, if you are careless; for it will not come of its own accord.” – Socrates, Xenophon’s Memorabilia 3.12 (Loeb version) [Apparently, Socrates said it with a deep sigh because he was infamously careless - Anna K.]

A competition or a rivalry is not mentioned as a motivating factor here; neither is a victory as a goal.
Well, we know from other sources that Plato did compete himself. But it seems that the athleticism, the harmony of body and soul, was the main goal for him while competitions and games were a byproduct not worth mentioning.

There is an earlier quote, attributed to Pythagoras, in which competing is mentioned but not in a good light as well:
"[Pythagoras] used to compare life to a festival [panêguris]. And as some people came to a festival to contend for the prizes, and others for the purposes of selling their wares, and the best as spectators; so also in life, the men of slavish dispositions, said he, are born to the pursuit of fame and material gain, but philosophers are seekers after truth. (Diogenes Laertius, Lives, 8.6)

So, when did it all start changing?

 

[Mathman]

So, when did it all start changing?

I think that the difficulty is that we are using two different uses of the word "philosophy." One is what Plato and Aristotle meant: love of learning. The other, as in superficial questions like "What is your philosophy of life?" with expected answers like. "If you believe in yourself you can accomplish all things, my son" -- these are more in the line of folksy maxims to live by, rather than profundities of metaphysics, epistemology, etc.

And in fact, I think that the profundities-of-being-profound type of philosophy has been in steady decline since the days of Plato and Aristotle, for the simple reason that we have come gradually to understand that we don't know what we are talking about and will never be able to say anything remotely intelligent about questions such as, "How do we come to know things and how do we know that what we know is true? -- although Ilia Malinin could work it into a voice-over skating program. To which Alysa Liu could respond, "Let's boogie!"