Any Sasha updates?

[R.D.]

R.D...I'm guessing you are getting at Kimmie being held up more in 2008, being the reigning Nat Champ, and a World Champ, but she really did skate poorly. I wish she could've repeated.

Yes, but in the end she really did herself in. I even thought her FS score was quite high for 3 falls and a dismal showing overall. If it was an international event I don't think it would have even cracked 80. Her status definitely helped keep her in the top 10 IMHO.

ETA: I hope she finds a way to keep at it and stay in through the 2014 cycle but I get the feeling she will move on to other things. She's accomplished a lot, anyway- more than any of the US ladies right now.

 

[janetfan]

But she did fall. She also completed 4 clean triples to Michelle's 6 and Sarah's 5 (with a 3/3). IMO, I think the greater "wuz robbed" argument was why Sarah was 3rd and not 2nd.


I think this is such a subjective matter. For me, I prefer Michelle to Sasha because of her ability to make me feel she is skating for me-or as Dick once said,"She makes you love her, makes you feel she loves you. That's a great quality to have." Sasha has a more introverted, private style. I've used this analogy before, but for me, her skating has a snowglobe effect: you are captivated by the beauty, but at a distance.

R.D...I'm guessing you are getting at Kimmie being held up more in 2008, being the reigning Nat Champ, and a World Champ, but she really did skate poorly. I wish she could've repeated.

I sort of have a big soft place in my heart for Kimmie.
But US Skating knew she had no chance, even skating her best to beat Mao or Yuna or even Caro at '08 Worlds. Giving Michelle a boost with a title was one thing, she always had a chance to win at Worlds.

Kimmie had one chance, and made the most of it.

 

[R.D.]

But US Skating knew she had no chance, even skating her best to beat Mao or Yuna or even Caro at '08 Worlds.

But she did help get 3 spots for 2008, and was the only US skater in that year to finish in the top 10. Of course she was not going to be competitive with the world's best, and her downfall signaled the downfall of the US ladies in general IMHO. Now no one has stepped up to the plate to fill the void, although Rachel seems to be sort of finding her way to it...

 

[R.D.]

Two words. (Hint: the first is "Doop" )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QNtxwpTSE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FncyndRKBPg

I watched her in the recent cancer show that aired on Fox. it was striking to watch the contrast between the veterans (Hamill/Kerrigan/Kristi) who don't do the flashy tricks and instead rely on artistry to really perform their routines and the current skaters (Wagner/Flatt) who were cool as well, but one can definitely tell they were just skating "galas". But Rachel...man, WHY can't you show that kind of personality in your competitive routines??

 

[janetfan]

But she did fall. She also completed 4 clean triples to Michelle's 6 and Sarah's 5 (with a 3/3). IMO, I think the greater "wuz robbed" argument was why Sarah was 3rd and not 2nd.


I think this is such a subjective matter. For me, I prefer Michelle to Sasha because of her ability to make me feel she is skating for me-or as Dick once said,"She makes you love her, makes you feel she loves you. That's a great quality to have." Sasha has a more introverted, private style. I've used this analogy before, but for me, her skating has a snowglobe effect: you are captivated by the beauty, but at a distance.

R.D...I'm guessing you are getting at Kimmie being held up more in 2008, being the reigning Nat Champ, and a World Champ, but she really did skate poorly. I wish she could've repeated.

Sasha was not necessarily introverted as a rule. She could project to the audience at a very high level at times. Watching her "Hernandos Hideaway" reminds me that Michelle didn't have the abilty to project the lighter, sassy style that Sasha could.

In competions I do think Michelle projected better than Sasha at times but not always. I think of Mao' s "Tango" and "Caprice" exhibition programs and see Sasha projecting that way. But really not Michelle too much. She was always pretty serious.

Btw, I like Michelle more than Sasha, always did and always will. But I think Sasha had certain qualities that were superior to Michelle and I can't help remembering how great Sasha was.

ETA: mm, it is always a blast to see Kristi doing just about anything.
Do you think she belongs with Sonja, Janet, Kat and Sasha on a list of greatest entertainers?
I suspect you do :yes:

 

[R.D.]

I was one of the few that never got the big whoop about MK. Then, I remember watching her recent skate in Korea a few months ago and it struck me- how much she really gets into the performance and pulls the audience in. I never got that feeling watching any of her other performances.

I think Cohen is best portraying a fiery, "tensive" style. She showed this during her Olympic skate in 2002 IIRC. Then it disappeared, and she tried to be this pwetty pwincess- just didn't work for me. At all. I think she is too serious/reserved of a skater to really pull off a sexy routine (DSTM at SOI this year. You have to be really INTO it!!), and too introverted a skater to pull off the slow, sassy routine.

But in the end, none of this stuff matters. What really matters to me is that you look like you are enjoying what you are doing, are having fun out there (without overselling it). That, in turn, makes me enjoy watching you perform. :yes: That is why I prefer skaters like E. Hughes to skaters like Caroline Zhang, who just seem completely miserable, or are just "going through the motions". Bleh. (And also why I tend to prefer the veterans to the eligible skaters in shows- the former have been doing it so long, they truly enjoy performing and it shows. Depends on the piece, too.)

 

[janetfan]

I was one of the few that never got the big whoop about MK. Then, I remember watching her recent skate in Korea a few months ago and it struck me- how much she really gets into the performance and pulls the audience in. I never got that feeling watching any of her other performances.

I think Cohen is best portraying a firey, tensive style. She showed this during her Olympic skate in 2002 IIRC. Then it disappeared, and she tried to be this pwetty pwincess- just didn't work for me. At all. I think she is too serious/reserved of a skater to really pull off a sexy routine (DSTM at SOI this year. You have to be really INTO it!!), and too introverted a skater to pull off the slow, sassy routine.

But in the end, none of this stuff matters. What really matters to me is that you look like you are enjoying what you are doing, are having fun out there (without overselling it). That, in turn, makes me enjoy watching you perform. :yes: That is why I prefer skaters like E. Hughes to skaters like Caroline Zhang, who just seem completely miserable, or are just "going through the motions". Bleh. (And also why I tend to prefer the veterans to the eligible skaters in shows- the former have been doing it so long, they truly enjoy performing and it shows. Depends on the piece, too.)

We all have different reasons for liking what we do.

I saw two skaters grow up on TV and saw them both skate Live when they we very young. I saw Janet Lynn skate Live at 14 and win the bronze medal at US Natls (Peggy won the Gold) and saw Michelle skate Live when she still wore the pony tail. She was only 12 or 13 when I saw her the first time with COI a few months after the 1994 Olympics.

I saw Janet grow up on Wide World of Sports and saw Michelle skate every year from the time she was 12.

Something for me stands out about these two and maybe it was that I saw them skate when they were so young and then was able to follow their LONG skating careers.

Probably Sasha is my 3rd favorite and I saw her from the time she was 15 until the present. I saw Sasha skate Live but not until she was about 18 or 19.

I like all of the skaters and maybe I like the one's best I had to chance to follow for so many years.

BTW, you know how many Gold medals US Ladies have won at the Olympics. My three favorites never won it but were probably the best skater even though their medal may have been silver or bronze.

 

[Olympia]

For me, I prefer Michelle to Sasha because of her ability to make me feel she is skating for me-or as Dick once said,"She makes you love her, makes you feel she loves you. That's a great quality to have." Sasha has a more introverted, private style. I've used this analogy before, but for me, her skating has a snowglobe effect: you are captivated by the beauty, but at a distance.

That's a lovely analogy. I also prefer Michelle to Sasha, though I love Sasha almost as much. Neither of them leaves me cold, ever. Aren't we lucky to have had both? Each is musical in her way, and both have always had a mature understanding of music as well as of skating.

This may be subjective, but my feeling was always that Sasha skated to the music, while Michelle skated inside the music. There are pieces like the fourth movement of Dvorak's Dumky Trio, which Michelle used for her Black Swan program, that I can never hear without thinking of her. In fact, there are pieces she never used that I hear and imagine her skating to. That's a pretty rare magic for a skater to possess.

 

[Mathman]

Do you think she belongs with Sonja, Janet, Kat and Sasha on a list of greatest entertainers?

I suspect you do :yes:

:yes: Sonja Henie belongs to a different era and can't really be compared with the others. Her impact on the sport is of a different order of magnitude.

About Kristi, I have forgetten the exact details, but I once read something like this. After the 1992 Olympics, Stars on Ice was slowing down and were rivaled by Brian Boitano and Katarina Witt's pro show tour. Scott Hamilton sat down with his financial backers and advisors to discuss what they had to do to get back on top.

So Scott said. what we need to do is tap into the new Olympic cycle by signing someone like Kristi Yamaguchi.

The moiney people responded by pulling out their market reseach. No, Scott, we don't need someone like Kristi Yamaguchi. We need Kristi Yamaguchi.

Then, I remember watching her recent skate in Korea a few months ago and it struck me- how much she really gets into the performance and pulls the audience in. I never got that feeling watching any of her other performances.

I was intending to comment on the other thread where you pointed out that Michelle skated mostly in North America in her Grand Prix events. This is quite true. In fact, she skated way more often in the United States than in other countries, which is why she is an American phenomenon and not such a big deal to fans in other countries.

For American audiences she was the absolute master of working that feedback loop with the audience. The moment they announced her name -- before, even -- the audience started going crazy. The crazier the audinece got the better Michelle skated. The better Michelle skated, the crazier the audience got.

This may be subjective, but my feeling was always that Sasha skated to the music, while Michelle skated inside the music. There are pieces like the fourth movement of Dvorak's Dumky Trio, which Michelle used for her Black Swan program, that I can never hear without thinking of her. In fact, there are pieces she never used that I hear and imagine her skating to. That's a pretty rare magic for a skater to possess.

To me, the difference between Michelle Kwan and all other skaters ever is that Michelle's performances had a certain artistic gravitas. There was and is something sublimely satisfying about her body of work.

And now -- look! -- she has grown to be a young woman of substance, right before our eyes.

 

[gsrossano]

No rumors surrounding the move down the hill?

Did you see Mirai? Or Carolina?

Evan and Carolina.

Rumors moving down the hill??? Like skating fans and the media, the local skating community wonders if the comeback is/was serious or just an attempt at regaining publicity for other reasons. I think the attempt is real, and would like her to show up at Nationals and skate credibly. But there has been little common sense or logic to the approach she has taken. I think the choices she has made in the comeback attempt have made things more difficult than needed and thus made it more likely not to be successful (and made injury more likely). Eight(?) weeks to Spokane. Not much time left.

 

[Tinymavy15]

(Wagner/Flatt) who were cool as well, but one can definitely tell they were just skating "galas". But Rachel...man, WHY can't you show that kind of personality in your competitive routines??

Well IMO, Rachel shows a lot of personality in her short this year. I think it is an excellent program for her, although I did not like it at first. You really have to sell that music 110% and I think she does it the best of all the skaters I saw using Sing, Sing Sing this year.

 

[R.D.]

Rumors moving down the hill??? Like skating fans and the media, the local skating community wonders if the comeback is/was serious or just an attempt at regaining publicity for other reasons. I think the attempt is real, and would like her to show up at Nationals and skate credibly. But there has been little common sense or logic to the approach she has taken. I think the choices she has made in the comeback attempt have made things more difficult than needed and thus made it more likely not to be successful (and made injury more likely). Eight(?) weeks to Spokane. Not much time left.

What's more, seems like USFS already has the press release for her W/D from Nats ready to go (according to the Aunt Joyce blog).

I think that says it all.

From what you are saying, seems to me as if it's not actually a publicity stunt, but a genuine attempt that has been (this is not going to sound nice to Cohen fans) basically botched...it was mismanaged and thus was doomed before it even got off the ground. Since she only had a few months planning was especially critical. (I won't rule out the publicity/attention possibility though. )

She should have come back last season, or at the very least dropped out of this year's SOI (even if she didn't compete) to focus solely on getting back in top shape. That would have given her most of the year (as opposed to just the summer) to sort things out. But even if she returned last year, it would have been tough. I look at Emily Hughes after just ONE year off and look at her, she has to literally climb her way back up to where she used to be...even putting college on hold, she is still struggling. Multiply that by three- skating recreationally (or in shows) just isn't the same.

If Meissner returns next season I think she'll have similar difficulties.

 

[Olympia]

: To me, the difference between Michelle Kwan and all other skaters ever is that Michelle's performances had a certain artistic gravitas. There was and is something sublimely satisfying about her body of work.

And now -- look! -- she has grown to be a young woman of substance, right before our eyes.

I completely agree, Mathman, with both your points!

It also seems to me that, as Lori Nichol's choreography and Frank Carroll's technical training brought out the best in her, she brought out the best in them. That period between her first World gold in 1996 and late 2001 saw an output of subtle, textured skating that still carries an electrical charge when I watch the programs on YouTube. All three of those people continued to grow and produce wonderful contributions to the skating world, but the time they were together was a magical pinnacle of artistry and technical superiority.

 

[MKFSfan]

What's more, seems like USFS already has the press release for her W/D from Nats ready to go (according to the Aunt Joyce blog).

I think that says it all.

Aunt Joyce said this? Can you elaborate?

 

[R.D.]

Aunt Joyce said this? Can you elaborate?

http://auntjoyceicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2009/11/im-agreeing-with-phil-hersh.html

The relevant part:

The USFSA does have a Press Release prepared in the event [Cohen] withdraws from Nationals. One USFSA employee told us at Skate America that the Skate America press release was already written two weeks in advance of it being released. At the time of Skate America, the Nationals release was already half-written.

 

[MKFSfan]

Thank you. I wonder if there is any truth to that.

 

[Mathman]

The USFSA does have a Press Release prepared in the event [Cohen] withdraws from Nationals. One USFSA employee told us at Skate America that the Skate America press release was already written two weeks in advance of it being released. At the time of Skate America, the Nationals release was already half-written.

That doesn't really prove anything, though. They probably have lots of statements prepared in advance in case various things happen. (Like newspapers keep obituaries on file for famous people, just in case they should happen to die this year.)

 

[Dee4707]

I think this is such a subjective matter. For me, I prefer Michelle to Sasha because of her ability to make me feel she is skating for me-or as Dick once said,"She makes you love her, makes you feel she loves you. That's a great quality to have." Sasha has a more introverted, private style. I've used this analogy before, but for me, her skating has a snowglobe effect: you are captivated by the beauty, but at a distance.

Isn't it funny how we all look at how skating and skaters affect us. I have never had that "love" feeling from any skater but I have been in awe. I think Uncle Dick has said the same about Johnny's skating as the highlighted above. Yet when I watch Sasha, Johnny, Michelle and Shen & Zhao at various times they have brought me close to tears and mega goosebumps. Marie France & Patrice have done the same.

When I've watched Emily H. I just think of a bull in a china shop.

 

[R.D.]

different strokes as they say... :yes:

 

[janetfan]

Isn't it funny how we all look at how skating and skaters affect us. I have never had that "love" feeling from any skater but I have been in awe. I think Uncle Dick has said the same about Johnny's skating as the highlighted above. Yet when I watch Sasha, Johnny, Michelle and Shen & Zhao at various times they have brought me close to tears and mega goosebumps. Marie France & Patrice have done the same.

When I've watched Emily H. I just think of a bull in a china shop.

I tend to appreciate "bulls" more than "china" so I appreciate Emily and like her enthusiasm (which seems to be missing from so many others).