Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

[MrScroogeMcDuck]

Lysacek deserved to win and he did. I can't believe the way some fans react when their man doesn't win a particular event. It doesn't matter who has been better over the years. What matters is who does the best during the two nights of competition. And to me, while Plushenko did have the quad, it was clear to me that Evan did a much better job at what jumps he did do and his footwork was more difficult and done well. The man who skated the best at these olympics won.

 

[MK's Winter]

I was soo happy watching Johnny to give that skate! I was devastated to see his score and placement. He should have been above Lambiel and Chan. Def above Lambiel in th short. It's things like this that make me not want to watch skating..

 

[museksk8r]

I was soo happy watching Johnny to give that skate! I was devastated to see his score and placement. He should have been above Lambiel and Chan. Def above Lambiel in th short. It's things like this that make me not want to watch skating..

I enjoyed Johnny way more than I did Evan.

 

[Olympia]

I think something similar happened to Kurt Browning after he failed to even medal in the '94 Olympics.
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT3iuBFZTVE

Thanks so much for linking to that lovely story, aftertherain. That whole incident says so much about Kurt, and it says even more about Canada. It's just one of the reasons he remains my favorite men's skater. (The other reason is his actual skating, of course!)

As for the performances last night, the event certainly didn't disappoint in terms of excitement. My one regret in the whole thing is that Daisuke fell on his quad. The quality of his skating is so extraordinary. I'd love to say that he'll have another chance in Sochi, but I know his knee is a problem. Nonetheless, Plushy has had several surgeries, and he seems to be doing just fine at his advanced age, so maybe there's hope for Takahashi. And Oda was extraordinary, both in his skating and in his self-possession. Now, there's a guy who could do well at Sochi. Chan also--you can see the quality of his skating even when he's not completely on.

I haven't had a chance to read all the comments, but I gather there's a certain amount of acrimony for the results. I'm not a huge fan of Plushy's, but I can see that he's one of the great skaters of his time. Yet the truth is that he wasn't at his best last night. A quad by itself isn't enough. Should a skater be able to win without a quad? Well, I don't see why not, if the other stuff is great. If Takahashi had not done the quad and had stayed on his feet and won with a triple, I don't think that many people would have complained about his win, because his skating is clearly so superior. Evan's not my favorite skater in the world (see "Browning," above!), but he gave the night his all, and if you analyze his program, it was a better COP program as well as being a beautiful, musical one, thanks to Lori Nichol. Plushy's jumps, while fabulous, were not at their best. I don't think any North American favoritism entered into it. Look how close the results were! What was it--a point's difference? Pretty amazing. It's not even as if the judges made a decision. They just wrote down their marks, and this is how it turned out.

I think this is why I tend not to worry about who wins as much as I used to. My two favorite skaters of all time (not just for sentimental reasons but because of the quality of their skating) never managed to bring their top game to the Olympics. Michelle Kwan managed two non-gold medals, and Kurt Browning never won any kind of Olympic medal. It's a judged sport, and the ice is slippery, and those two factors sometimes bring unexpected results.

 

[UM84]

Such sour grapes

“I was positive that I won. But I suppose Evan needs a medal more than I do,” Plushenko said through a translator. “Maybe it’s because I already have one. But I have to share with you, two silver and one Olympic gold medal is not too bad.”

“If the Olympic champion doesn’t know how to jump a quad, I don’t know,” Plushenko said. “Now it’s not men’s figure skating, now it’s dancing.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35472232/ns/sports-olympic_sports/

You know what Plushenko, this you where you have it wrong. There is more to skating then a quad jump, it is a "Complete" program from start to fininsh.

 

[dlgpffps]

Nevertheless he is a golden man who comes from the golden era of men's figure skating and nothing, absolutely nothing, changes that.

Yes, Plushenko absolutely is a golden skater. That he can return to competition for his third Olympics and still win silver is testimony to his immense talent. Too bad he didn't know how to harness it CoP-style. A Plushy from 2002 or 2006 would've slaughtered the competition -- the only skater to really challenge the Plushy of yore was Yagudin, yet another man for the books. The two skaters brought the sport forward, adding unprecedented athletic prowess to consistency, charisma and choreography. They had a different form of artistry -- an awe-inspiring, climactic, dynamic type. It's difficult to explain, but everyone who's watched the two skate at their best will understand. Then, Plushy had not only the jumps (which were admittedly sloppier today), but also different spins and greater power and speed. At the moment, I'm looking through his past programs (along with Yagudin's) and reminiscing.. :thumbsup: He used to be so amazing to watch -- of course, he still is, and in my heart, he will always be a golden skater.

I'm just really upset because of all the bad publicity he got -- how he was shaped into a big-bad-Russian who's up to no good, which was very disrespectful to a skater whose accomplishments far outshine Lysacek's (sorry to single him out, but all that "he's-such-a-good-kid-soooo-hard-working" really got to me when juxtaposed with Plushy's bad PR). Even the commentators... :scowl:

Yeah. I'm kind of iffy on the quad comment as well. I think it's great to have on under your belt (Kozuka landed his, YAY!), but I hardly think figure skating "died" because Evan Lysacek didn't have one. To me, it's like saying all the ladies should have a triple axel.

I'm glad someone mentioned this. The quad is not like the 3A for ladies, which is new frontier for which the number of success in competition can be counted on one's fingers. It's an established jump that top-tier skaters used to have in their arsenal. With the ladies, only Mao will try it, but today there were a lot more men trying the quad -- Plushy, Kozuka, Lambiel, Takahashi, etc. No OGM Lady won with a 3A, but it's been decades since a man won without it. The 3A is almost physically impossible for most ladies, but the quad is possible with a handful of men. My gist is, some men can do it, but they don't, while ladies, well they just can't do the 3A.I think Stojko and Plushenko have legitimate reason to lament the absence of the quad and its apparent devaluation in CoP (which is a true pity).

I think that if a liked, artistic skater won without a quad, nobody would ever suggest it... I don't remember anybody complaining when Jeff Buttle won over Brian 2 years ago. I wouldn't want the quad to become a necessary element - I believe that a performance like Jeff's should win over a less wholesome performance with a quad.

THANK YOU. I concur with you 100%. I neither like nor dislike Lysacek -- but that's just it. He leaves me empty. He is neither the Russian jumping bean nor the fluid artist. He does not leave me in shock/awe or in tears/pure joy. He is an in-between -- prominent in neither department. He's a great competitor. I admire him for delivering when it counts -- and with undeniable talent -- but to me he is an underwhelming gold medalist. I won't remember his performance four years from now, but I will recall fondly Kozuka's and some others. Well, congratulations all the same. He did deserve it -- under the CoP system.

 

[museksk8r]

There is more to skating then a quad jump, it is a "Complete" program from start to fininsh.

That's my problem with Evan though. He is certainly not a complete skater to me. I think a complete skater possesses wonderful flow and a great awareness of music, none of which Lysacek has. He frantically flails his arms, lacks height and ease in his jumps, and consistently fails to interpret his music with sensitivity. His 3Axel technique is horrid and his costumes are always hideous. His jumps always look tight to me and he always appears to be working instead of playing. Nothing looks easy to me when he is on the ice.

 

[gracefulswan]

http://www.thespec.com/Sections/designhope/article/724491 (good article...sums it up well)


“Evgeny skated great, and I’ve admired him for many years,” Lysacek said. “I was impressed with his performance but to me the way I skated tonight was a winning performance, no matter what anyone else did.

“If I had gotten second I would have been satisfied.”

He's got to be even more satisfied with this.




Very classy quotes from Lysacek! I was rooting really for Plushenko, but Lysacek works the code better and actually paid attention to the rules....sorry, but Plush basically thought he didn't have to adjust his skating as much as he, in fact, needed to do. If you want to win the game, then follow the rules! even if you don't agree with them. Lysacek worked his but off and now a defending world champ tops it off with an Olympic gold... congrats!

 

[chiocciola]

Such sour grapes

“I was positive that I won. But I suppose Evan needs a medal more than I do,” Plushenko said through a translator. “Maybe it’s because I already have one. But I have to share with you, two silver and one Olympic gold medal is not too bad.”

“If the Olympic champion doesn’t know how to jump a quad, I don’t know,” Plushenko said. “Now it’s not men’s figure skating, now it’s dancing.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35472232/ns/sports-olympic_sports/

You know what Plushenko, this you where you have it wrong. There is more to skating then a quad jump, it is a "Complete" program from start to fininsh.

It's just his disagreement on the aspect of the quad... please do not exaggerate, he was not talking about his strength in speed, spins, PC over the others...

 

[Dodhiyel]

If a jump is worth 4.95, and you get 0 for GOE, then you end up with 4.95 for that element. If you score positive GOE, then the base value goes up. Sorry if I didn't understand your post correctly.

Hi, Scout. I'm the one who should be sorry. I had wrongly assumed the GOE column operated as a multiplier; after your reply, I looked at it more carefully, and realized it is just an additive column. I really thought I had seen at least one case where 1.00 worked as a multiplier, but obviously, I must have been wrong about this. Thank you so much for putting me on the right track, and so courteously, as well. I am truly grateful to you. I thought of just sending this to you in a PM, but I wanted to state publicly that I was wrong, and you were right. Thanks again.

 

[UM84]

http://www.thespec.com/Sections/designhope/article/724491 (good article...sums it up well)


“Evgeny skated great, and I’ve admired him for many years,” Lysacek said. “I was impressed with his performance but to me the way I skated tonight was a winning performance, no matter what anyone else did.

“If I had gotten second I would have been satisfied.”

He's got to be even more satisfied with this.


Very classy quote from Lysacek! I was rooting really for Plushenko, but Lysacek works the code better and actually paid attention to the rules....sorry, but Plush basically thought he didn't have to adjust his skating as much as he, in fact, needed to do. If you want to win the game, then follow the rules! even if you don't agree with them. Lysacek worked his but off and now a defending world champ top it off with an Olympic gold... congrats!

At least someone has class, Plushenko has nothing positive to say

 

[Hikaru]

i couldn´t log back yesterday I guess the forum was full of people posting after the competition. The top three was so close, virtually tied, that whomever made a slight mistake would take himself out of competition. Evan skated clean and good, so he won fare and square. I'm not a fan opf his skating style though, his program left me cold, and I didn't enjoy his step sequence, but he got the job done. Plushenko did great jumps, some of them laboured, and he didn't take advantgae of spreading them to get a bonus on the second half of the program. is it age issue? injuries? stamina? who knows. I wasn't crazy about his program either, but he fought every jump, I'll give him credit for that. Had he done perhaps a jump or two after the second mark, who knows the story be different. I think when he was in the K&C he believed he had it.

My favorites where Daiske, Johnny and Nobu. Daisuke, his was the program I enjoyed the most from the top three. He had a fall, but the choreo was amazing, you could understand the theme right away and his step sequence is the best in the business these days. He skated his heart out and it was amazing to see him. He was my favorite to win. Johnny's program was really great, execpt for the error on the spin, he skated with passion and brought me back to the Otoñal era. Unfortunatelly judges seemed to want him really down in the standings, but what made me happy is that he looked happy about his performance. The third program I like the best was Nobu-kun's. Such a sad thing about his boot, but great for him finishing the program. Great choreo and theme, I don't care what Sandra said about it.

 

[UM84]

It's just his disagreement on the aspect of the quad... please do not exaggerate, he was not talking about his strength in speed, spins, PC over the others...

There is no exaggeration to it, what he said was a slap in the face to Evan. Maybe he should of said "If I landed my jumps cleaner, I could of won". And sorry, but there is more to sakting then just jumps, dance/musicality is part of it as well

 

[Ice-Lady]

For me Plushenko was better, but it doesnt' matter anymore. For me, ISU should give him ths second gold medal, like in SLC, and this would be a reason again to change this dumn system

 

[adamlondon]

Although he is chastised for speaking his mind, I think Plushenko is right on mnay counts. The quad is the cream of skating achievement so it should be given heavyweight in a competition. It is right to say that the winner did not have the highest technical difficulty which sends out a message to all future skaters to forget about it. I really can't see that many people pushing for it, since people like Jeff Buttle and Evan won worlds without a quad, and now Olympic gold for men's without it too. It's a fine point, but I do feel that in the men's event the technical prowess should take precedence. Im the ladies I would give more weight to the presentation and polish- but this is my view and I expect the same when I watch ballet I guess. Guys are always commented on heights of jumps and leaps and girls more on their interpretation.
After he finished I thought Plushenko had it, although it would be close. Mind you, if you asked me I would rather watch Evan Lysacek's program again and again compared to Plushenko's. I noticed that their component makrs were identical which is a bonus for Plushenko I suppose. In that case the judges were pretty fair.
On a different note, I wish Takahashi would sort out his polish of things instead of barging into everything. he has suich a wonderful skater but I note towrds the end everything became messy and his spins did not get levels he required. If I were him I would not do the quad ever again on the future, seeing that he is already endorsed himslef with such flighty component marks. He can play the Lysacek card and skate clean and concentrate on polish.

 

[Hikaru]

Allez Florent!!

I liked his program too, my sister who doesn't follow skating as close as I did loved him.

 

[chiocciola]

http://www.thespec.com/Sections/designhope/article/724491 (good article...sums it up well)


“Evgeny skated great, and I’ve admired him for many years,” Lysacek said. “I was impressed with his performance but to me the way I skated tonight was a winning performance, no matter what anyone else did.

“If I had gotten second I would have been satisfied.”

He's got to be even more satisfied with this.




Very classy quotes from Lysacek! I was rooting really for Plushenko, but Lysacek works the code better and actually paid attention to the rules....sorry, but Plush basically thought he didn't have to adjust his skating as much as he, in fact, needed to do. If you want to win the game, then follow the rules! even if you don't agree with them. Lysacek worked his but off and now a defending world champ tops it off with an Olympic gold... congrats!

Plushy said in kiss and cry in both programs: nevermind the scores, I did everything I could now. Thanks everyone for supporting me, hello to Russia that staff!

 

[figuristka]

Iam so disappointed in the men's free programs. I expected a great thrilling competition but was left cold. Chan is a beautiful skater with deep edges and wonderful choreography but thought his marks seemed abit high, wonderful skater though and hope he will do better next season. Lysacek, was consistant and he should be very proud to skate so well at Olympics, but his program had very little artistry, and there was no fire or energy. Though iam no Evan fan i did think his short was well done and exciting. His skating did not excite me or touch me. I adore Lambiel but there were too many stuggles in the program, wonderful artist though. He is a skater that does have the ability to evoke emotion. Takahashi, iam proud of him coming back a good performance and good energy but something missing for me.Perhaps too wild in some positions. Weir, to me i enjoyed the most out of all the men i saw. Iam proud of him. Beautiful jumps and skating, he is so graceful and such wonderful positions. Even if his program was not so friendly with the new scoring system i feel there is something wrong when the skater i enjoy the most, who had a great combination of the jumps and artistry scores so low. He looked like actually skated to the music. Then Plushenko, it was not his best, jumps were tilted but a great fight. Under the old system it would have won. I think he is capable of better but this was the best he could do at this time. Iam disappointed his previous competitions did not score him accordingly if this is how he was scored at Olympics. I think its unfair just to hit him with this now and not let him have the right time to prepare and change his program. Like Lysacek he is not a great artist, or musical skater but he did show more energy and performance skills in his skating. I actually still felt he should have won.

 

[kiz_4Ever]

THANK YOU. I concur with you 100%. I neither like nor dislike Lysacek -- but that's just it. He leaves me empty. He is neither the Russian jumping bean nor the fluid artist. He does not leave me in shock/awe or in tears/pure joy. He is an in-between -- prominent in neither department. He's a great competitor. I admire him for delivering when it counts -- and with undeniable talent -- but to me he is an underwhelming gold medalist. I won't remember his performance four years from now, but I will recall fondly Kozuka's and some others. Well, congratulations all the same. He did deserve it -- under the CoP system.

I agree with you...yesterday my connection crashed during the last group, and I couldn't see the comments (maybe later I'llfinish to read the whole tread..)

but for me Lysacek is just a good competitor who goes out and do what he is supposed to do..homework...but I don't get him, and I don't think I'll remember something else than punch in the air every second half of the program.
anyway congratulation for performing so perfectly and clean.

Plushenko (I had a crush some years ago...) was not my favourite one for gold, but seeing the whole competition, when he was skating I was just hoping he could get it. yeah, it was no so kind, my thought being a sort of "please not evan..someone beates him" but also seeing what plushenko did I would have had him as gold.
at least, I'm glad Lysacek doesn't have better PCS than Plushenko...
all the difference was in levels, and if only he had added a single toeloop, using the three jumps combo...that was a great error from him and mishin!

But I think that I'll better remember the 3rd flight, javier, nobu and daisuke..
lambiel was feeling to much pressure and his performance was not as good as could be..in tallin, he falled down, but he was more enjoyable to watch.

another thing I really didn't like was this "against plushenko stuff" that was in so many articles, commentators' words, and so on...
he may not be anymore the zar or the skater that amazed us in 2003 (his best programs ever IMO), but he didn't deserved all this insulting and so..he was one of the best skater from 1998 until 2006 and people can't forget that and treating him as just an arrogant boy who wants a medal...

 

[dlgpffps]

IMO what kept Plushenko away from gold was his own arrogance. Plus, look back to Torino, if it wasn't for Evan being sick he probably would of got a medal.

UM84, could you please stop with the personal attacks (you've made ones other than what I've quoted above). I think a lot is lost in translation, and I know this firsthand, as I've worked as a translator several times before. From what I've read so far, Plushy seemed happy to have a silver medal to add to his trophy case - as he points out, he now has TWO silver medals and one GOLD medal. That's hard to beat. He probably didn't like nor understand today's results because his mind works in the 6.0 system (as he has mentioned in another interview), but it's not as though silver's "not good enough for him." Anyways, this forum is for discussing skating, the actual performance, less so the skater's personality, which we often confuse with the persona certain skaters will assume in competition. If you enter the Edge, there is a separate discussion on Plushy's personality. If you're interested, you can go look. Let's not jump to hasty conclusions on a skater's arrogance or sportsmanship with a one-sided media "Cold War" portrayal (which I think is absolutely ridiculous).

And I actually like his arrogance, since he can back it up on ice