Stojko opposes the ladies result

[Nadia01]

In 2008 when Mao was doing a triple axel and a 3flip/3toe along with a 3flip/3loop. Mao would have been undefeated if clean. Because she was showing the judges she could do everything Yu-na could do and more.

When you put it that way, it's astounding how Mao's jumps have deteriorated...

 

[antmanb]

So you think judges don't ever do comparisons between skaters when scoring? Anyways, nothing wrong with stating opinions about the judging system~~~.

Where in my post did i say that judges don't ever compare skaters when scoring?

What annoys me a little is when people write strong opinions on judges and how they judged a competition or applied the rules, when the poster then admits that they've "heard" something about the rules rather than read them....how good an opinion is it if it's based on heresay about the rules and the person hasn't even read the rules for themselves? How do they know that the heresay about the rules is even correct?

Ant

 

[adoreyuna]

I think Stojko did not cosider why Team Mao had to do 3A-2T(9.50) instead of 3Lz-3Lo(11.00) or 3Lz-3T(10.00) or 3F-3Lo(10.50) whatever 3-3 more valuable than 9.50.
IS he really interested in Ladies figure skating ? Anyway, I think he has a strong and interesting character.

 

[cherriee]

As I mentioned earlier Mao hasn't landed a 3lutz this season, and doesn't even bother to attempt them. Nor is she doing a 3sal. She also hasn't been doing 3/3s in her program. Mao would benefit more from having a triple axel, if she had the other triples and was doing a 3/3.

I wish Yu-na will dazzle me with a 3loop in her LP.

I find it annoying for people to suggest Kim takes no risks at all. As if 3lutz/3toes were just common things from ladies, and as if Mao has shown an ability to do that combination herself.

In 2008 when Mao was doing a triple axel and a 3flip/3toe along with a 3flip/3loop. Mao would have been undefeated if clean. Because she was showing the judges she could do everything Yu-na could do and more.

Mao does 3axel/2toe, which NO ONE skater in the world (at least currently) can do, not even Yu-na. What I understand from reading your post is that, on top of 3axel/2Toe, Mao needs to do 3Flip/3Toe plus a 3Flip/3Loop, before it becomes reasonable for her to beat Yu-na?

 

[Mafke]

Shorter Elvis Stojko : Those damned dirty judges refuse to give Asada's combo more points than they're allowed to!

Look, I'm open to the suggestion that quads, and ladies' 3axs should get more points than they currently do (and that judges should give more benefit of a doubt in terms of underrotations - and for 3-3 ladies combination too).

But .... that's a question for after this season. The skaters' teams knew, or should have known, what the point values were coming into this competition and the belly-aching about how skaters should get more points than they're allowed (or how a particular jump element should raise PC scores or get +GOE when not terribly well done) is getting on my last nerve.

I haven't seen either Asada's or Kim's SPs yet (and with the ridiculous youtube ban probably won't for a while) but it seems that following the current rules Kim's combo is worth more points than Asada's. Talk about whether that's fair or not are more suited to a later time.

 

[fairly4]

i can see what elvis means--i dont object yu-na first , mao 2nd- what i object to is the scores- i would have put mao a bit closer to yu-na around 75-76 not a 73.
joannie deserved her score,
i dont object to the rankings just the scores especially mao a bit undermarked. that is all
but all skated great.
if elvis felt evgeny should have won because of quad --only natural he defended mao in first cause of triple axle,

 

[bekalc]

I wish Yu-na will dazzle me with a 3loop in her LP.


Mao does 3axel/2toe, which NO ONE skater in the world (at least currently) can do, not even Yu-na. What I understand from reading your post is that, on top of 3axel/2Toe, Mao needs to do 3Flip/3Toe plus a 3Flip/3Loop, before it becomes reasonable for her to beat Yu-na?

Than maybe Mao coud dazzle us with a 3sal or a 3lutz. And no my point isn't that Mao needs to do all of the above to beat Yu-na. My point is though that since Mao isn't doing a 3lutz or even one 3/3, she gives up a lot of bonus points to Yu-na. And it becomes apples to oranges. I actually do think the value of the triple axel should be raised and the scores should have been closer. But lets not ignore the fact that Mao is currently missing a lot technically herself. I suspect just having a lutz would do the trick for her.

And yes, I agree that the 3axel/2toe is awesome. But once again how many ladies here executed 3lutz/3toes? Kim was the only one.

 

[ARipp42014]

Oy Elvis! Didn't he read the CoP cliffnotes? I think he still have sour grapes from the whole Evan-Plushy mess plus still living in the past of losing to Alexei U. and Ilya. Elvis, get over it! Plus why the heck is he suddenly interested in the ladies? :disapp:

He also forgets that Mao doesn't have a lutz (yet Yuna doesn't have a consistent loop).

 

[enlight78]

yes i agree; this is what is really hurting mao; the rule is stupid; if may could do a triple for her required axel; instead of a double axel she could do a flutz and score at least two points higher;

 

[bmelanie]

I don't know how accurate Kim's sp marks are, one thing surprised me though:
a rather low GOE Asada got for her 3A+2T combo: +0.60. That's all. It's as if the judges are saying 'Nah, it was ok, but we've seen better. Much much better 3A+2T combos tonight'. Oh, have they really?

And I'm not even commenting on Gedevanishvili's + 0.20 GOE on that 2A done out of the spiral. Who cares, right?

Okay, I'm SICK AND TIRED of people blithely ignoring the fact that Mao's double toe is severely underrotated and yet she gets a free pass practically every time. She might get dinged for the 3A being underrotated now and again but god forbid they DG the double toe (which is basically a single. Srsly. Look at the slo-mo.) That's what they're doing with the +GOEs, IMHO, they're giving her a free pass with the 2T but acknowledging that the combo isn't quite sound.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Shorter Elvis Stojko : Those damned dirty judges refuse to give Asada's combo more points than they're allowed to!

Look, I'm open to the suggestion that quads, and ladies' 3axs should get more points than they currently do (and that judges should give more benefit of a doubt in terms of underrotations - and for 3-3 ladies combination too).

But .... that's a question for after this season. The skaters' teams knew, or should have known, what the point values were coming into this competition and the belly-aching about how skaters should get more points than they're allowed (or how a particular jump element should raise PC scores or get +GOE when not terribly well done) is getting on my last nerve.

I haven't seen either Asada's or Kim's SPs yet (and with the ridiculous youtube ban probably won't for a while) but it seems that following the current rules Kim's combo is worth more points than Asada's. Talk about whether that's fair or not are more suited to a later time.

Forget the GoEs (- or +) they are just opinions regardless of any directive saying otherwise.
What should be done is let the judges handle the whole thing (get rid of the Technical Panel)

Let the element scores range from 0-10 and then multiplied by the base value for a particular element.
Then put the step sequence in the PC scores. All this would be in line with other judged Sports.

By and large, the PC scores are more opinion than quantitative. Like the 6.0 System, one man's feast is another man's poison. I would just suggest that an explanation should accompany the PC scores after the placements have been made. I am a firm believer in the right of the fan to know what's going on.

 

[lavender]

Look, I'm open to the suggestion that quads, and ladies' 3axs should get more points than they currently do (and that judges should give more benefit of a doubt in terms of underrotations - and for 3-3 ladies combination too).

But .... that's a question for after this season. The skaters' teams knew, or should have known, what the point values were coming into this competition and the belly-aching about how skaters should get more points than they're allowed (or how a particular jump element should raise PC scores or get +GOE when not terribly well done) is getting on my last nerve.

I agree.

 

[Tonichelle]

....how good an opinion is it if it's based on heresay about the rules and the person hasn't even read the rules for themselves? How do they know that the heresay about the rules is even correct?

Ant

and the lawyer comes out

 

[epskeels]

I won't argue with the points for the jumps but the positive GOE'S! and the skating skills, presentation, Yu Na has some of the worst spin and spiral positions I've ever seen, some of the young girls at my club look much better. But if she gets the gold and retires, maybe we can get back to some fair judging. They did the same for Kostner until they realized she wasn't all that great. Why do they pick someone, probably still paid off.

 

[Figure88]

Okay, I'm SICK AND TIRED of people blithely ignoring the fact that Mao's double toe is severely underrotated and yet she gets a free pass practically every time. She might get dinged for the 3A being underrotated now and again but god forbid they DG the double toe (which is basically a single. Srsly. Look at the slo-mo.) That's what they're doing with the +GOEs, IMHO, they're giving her a free pass with the 2T but acknowledging that the combo isn't quite sound.

ITA. Her combo's always look really strange to me. The back end jump usually look like singles rather than doubles. I think she's been dinged a couple of times for under-rotating her doubles which shouldn't be the case for top skaters since most skaters can fully rotate 3-2's.

 

[Nadia01]

I won't argue with the points for the jumps but the positive GOE'S! and the skating skills, presentation, Yu Na has some of the worst spin and spiral positions I've ever seen, some of the young girls at my club look much better. But if she gets the gold and retires, maybe we can get back to some fair judging. They did the same for Kostner until they realized she wasn't all that great. Why do they pick someone, probably still paid off.

I dont' think judges are really looking at how pretty Yuna looks from ankle up when she does spiral. They're looking at her edge & how fast she's skating, etc.

 

[ManyCairns]

We have had discussion on the boards about possible bonuses for doing all the different types of triples, minus the axel, for ladies, and given what we see being performed these days I believe that would be a noteworthy (and COP point-worthy) technical skill. I do like that Yuna does more types of triples than Mao currently does -- and not only that, she does have a big firework herself in her 3-3 combo. Maybe not quite as big a firework move as the 3-axel, but still a pretty big technical move to put down. So it's not as though Yuna has no "big moment" moves herself. However, I do strongly agree that the 3 axel needs a higher base value in COP since it is such an unusual and difficult move. Unfortunately, that won't help Mao now, but I am quite sure Mao and her team knew that coming in. Totally understandable to me, though, that Mao would still want to showcase her signature highlight skill even knowing the points it earns. That's a satisfaction and a glory in itself regardless of the points.

So proud of both Mirai and Rachael, sorry that many seem so upset over Rachael's really rather small lead over Mirai since they both did so well. Even though medals are unlikely, they are clearly enjoying themselves in ways that might not have been possible had they had medal expectations. They are probably having more pure fun than they might if they grace us again in 4 years under serious pressure to medal. So happy for them!

Joannie shone and wow, just wow, given what she's going through. So many thoughts and prayers go with her.

 

[enlight78]

yes; I most agree; I keep saying to myself Asada can do 3A but she can't even complete a double toe; forget a 3/3 The funny thing is if asada would have did a 3a/3t they just would have been tied;

 

[Buttercup]

I just watched the ladies' highlights on Eurosport, and Chris & Simon essentially said the same thing Elvis did: Yu-Na was clearly the best, but Mao was also very strong and 3A combos should be worth more - as should quads and quad combos in the men's. It's not an unreasonable argument, although Elvis could do a better job of presenting it.

 

[Mrs. P]

Okay, I'm SICK AND TIRED of people blithely ignoring the fact that Mao's double toe is severely underrotated and yet she gets a free pass practically every time. She might get dinged for the 3A being underrotated now and again but god forbid they DG the double toe (which is basically a single. Srsly. Look at the slo-mo.) That's what they're doing with the +GOEs, IMHO, they're giving her a free pass with the 2T but acknowledging that the combo isn't quite sound.

Yeah that 2T looks kind of strange in the end. And good for Mao to do the triple axel, but she could defintely get more height out of it. It just seems so contained.

I would think a discussion on the value of the Triple Axel is worth discussing.

Also isn't Yuna planning 2 3-3 combos in the LP? If so and she wins will Elvis still complain? I'm watching with baited breath!