I prefer watching a flawed, but artistic skate rather than a clean, uninspired one, but my point was that in the SP more credit should be given to the clean one. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this and put the subject to rest.
2013 Worlds Ladies SP
- Thread starter Slowdive
- Start date
I prefer watching a flawed, but artistic skate rather than a clean, uninspired one, but my point was that in the SP more credit should be given to the clean one. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this and put the subject to rest.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
That's the worst Worlds ever in terms of Ladies judging... Are they insane????? Giving Adele, Liza and Gracie lower PCS and TES scores than Osmond??? How come Kostner gets higher PCS than Yuna? That's what I hate about her...underscoring everybody rest to put her on the podium...
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2004
Wait. Why are we arguing about standing ovations??
Anyways, just finished watching the Ladies on CBC. I don't get all the drama. I enjoyed everyone and am overall satisfied with placements. I don't get the Carolina love and I've been following since her Senior debut so I probably am a lost cause on that one.
Anyways, even with her fall and not getting what makes her so great, I would still have placed her in the top 5 for sure so I guess I can give the judges their bias. We all have our own favourites and tend to look over their flaws so I don't mind that the judges do the same.
Anyways, just finished watching the Ladies on CBC. I don't get all the drama. I enjoyed everyone and am overall satisfied with placements. I don't get the Carolina love and I've been following since her Senior debut so I probably am a lost cause on that one.
Anyways, even with her fall and not getting what makes her so great, I would still have placed her in the top 5 for sure so I guess I can give the judges their bias. We all have our own favourites and tend to look over their flaws so I don't mind that the judges do the same.LOL. Who let looney bit out?
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2004
I am embarrassed to admit it, but that was the one time I was secretly glad that the judges were able to give out a smidge of home cooking. Lindemann helped the judges out by giving the skate of his life.OK, Stefan Lindemann is not Stephane Lambiel .
But yet and still I was i was happy for the lad.
I am glad someone brought this up. I loved Lindemann that year and was so happy to see him get the bronze.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
so what is your point mate? I don't even know why I'm arguing with you whether Yuna received a standing ovation or not.
you said Yuna didn't receive a standing ovation. now you are comparing the number of people who were standing. and you are comparing Vampire Kiss to one of Yuna's legendary program? of course, there would be a big difference in crowd's reaction (+ no of pp standing). I was actually moved watching Yuna's 09 worlds.
Kaetlyn was clean, while Adelina, Liza and Gracie all had mistakes (costly mistakes in Liza's case, she missed 2 elements) so how is it surprising that she beat them, especially on TES? And Carolina should have PCS comparable to Yuna's, she has great skating skills and presented her program well.Here is the link to the protocols: link
Wait. Why are we arguing about standing ovations??
Anyways, just finished watching the Ladies on CBC. I don't get all the drama. I enjoyed everyone and am overall satisfied with placements. I don't get the Carolina love and I've been following since her Senior debut so I probably am a lost cause on that one.
I think it's about the impact of Yuna's program. To me, it didn't seem like the audience got into it as much as her other programs. She did all her elements clean and some of them were very high quality, but she didn't get the big standing o (as far as I could tell) i think because the program is not a crowd pleaser. Which is a shame, because David Wilson is usually so amazing. Does anyone remember his creation for Korpi's SP from earlier in the season, Girl with the Flaxen Hair? I DIE
I agree, the top 5 is all right, though the order is up for debate a bit. Carolina could have been behind Kanako and closer to Osmond, IMO. But those three are relatively close in score so it's not a major problem. They all had pluses and minuses.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Finally got to watch Murakami. One question - how did she beat Osmond for 3rd?
Questionable jump technique aside I just don't think her overall quality is there yet. She has the musicality, but she really lacks in carriage, grace and movement quality IMO. I'm also surprised she didn't get dinged with any UR this time.
Questionable jump technique aside I just don't think her overall quality is there yet. She has the musicality, but she really lacks in carriage, grace and movement quality IMO. I'm also surprised she didn't get dinged with any UR this time.
Ugh ok I thought my point was pretty clear but I'll try and spell it out a bit better. I don't think it's a standing ovation when it's not everyone standing up. If a few people stand, it's not a standing ovation. An ovation is when the audience as a WHOLE (or at least the vast majority of them) stands up. Didn't happen here, as far as I could tell. 2009 was a standing ovation, and you can see the reaction is totally different. Or like I said earlier, Chan and Ten last night. A "legendary program", to borrow your words, gets a standing ovation. Not just a "pretty good" one.
I'm bringing this up because I do think the program is lacking a connection to the audience (hence, the lack of real standing ovation), and this goes some way to explaining the lower PCS than she is perhaps used to. I think it's a valid point. I don't know why people are getting snappy about this.
Yeah, obviously there's little point in responding to someone who hasn't read or either doesn't get my posts, but let me repeat myself anyway. I love many Canadian skaters as I've already mentioned, including Meagan and Eric, Gilles/ Poirier, Weaver/ Poje, and Mitchell/ Islam, along with junior pairs Jones/ Beharry and Marinaro/ Purdy. I admire the talent of MT/M, Patrick, V/M and KO. And, Sale/ Pelletier, Toller Cranston, Kurt Browning and Bourne/ Kraatz are at the top of my list of my favorite skaters of all time. I've also enjoyed watching Jeff Buttle, Brian Orser, Shawn Sawyer, Emanuel Sandhu, and Elvis Stojko.
I never said anything about KO's score, except that she's obviously benefiting from skating in Canada. Believe you me, these results would look quite different if Worlds were right now being held in Russia or in Japan.
I don't think Kevin Reynolds is all that great, but he's a nice young man who deserves credit for ramping up re his quads, but he was over-scored and so was Patrick, although Patrick deserves to be in first place. I also think that Joubert, Brezina, and Denis Ten were over-generously scored, although Denis deserves to be in second place.
For their mistakes, Amodio, Hanyu, Mura and Nan Song were very generously scored, while Ross Miner was seriously dumped on, especially being the last skater to skate. In what universe other than this warped one does Ross Miner deserve to be in 14th place behind Peter Liebers???! Ross has better skating skills than Liebers and Liebers did not even attempt a quad, not to mention Ross is behind 4 additional guys who made minor to serious errors.
Speaking of which, if falls are not such serious errors as has been propounded in this thread, then obviously no one told the mens judging panel about it when they were specifically judging Ross Miner. His presentation needs further development, but he's not as poor in that area as Nan Song and Peter Liebers, plus Ross' skating skills are far superior to skaters he was placed behind. Ross was clearly dumped on, while Caro was clearly held up for falling. Ross Miner deserves to be no lower than 11 in the mens field.
IMO, Caro should definitely be behind Ashley Wagner. You've got to stand up or receive deserved penalty for falling as a top skater, or else the judging simply has no credibility, and obviously it doesn't in more ways than one, and it's clearly not even-handed. Carolina is a gifted skater, but she also benefits from and is gifted by having no competition in her country and from being from the same country as the head of the ISU.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Yu-Na's 3Flip was excellent and the edge call is ridiculous. She didn't deserve to break 70 with that performance anyway, though, so I guess it evens out. Having the overall best jumps and polish of the competition puts her in 1st place.
Murakami - SOOOO happy she finally got judged fairly. A well deserved 2nd place.
The rambunctious Canadian girl did a very good job. She actually deserves the highest transitions component out of everyone. Needs a little more maturity and thoughtful choreography, and the spins could be better too. 3rd place.
Ashley Wagner's performance was solid. Well-controlled and engaging for the most part. It's too bad the last section of the program is underwhelming. Her footwork sequence is merely adequate and that final spin is disappointing. I would have put her 4th.
Kostner's second toeloop in combination absolutely should have got a < call (it honestly could have even been called << when you look at how she pre-rotates on the ice) and -3 GOE across the board for that combination. The program is hackneyed too; those Program Components for choreography should be a lot lower. Deserved 5th place at best.
Suzuki was unfortunately not on her game today. It's my favorite SP of the season, though, and she deserved to be in the final flight of skaters going into the LP, given how flawed the rest of the field was. Also, missing that last position in the flying camel didn't hurt the program at all because it's one of the weaker positions she attempts anyway and it never looks great. I hope she puts the 3Lutz back in the SP next season. I'm annoyed at the edge calls she was getting on it this season, after really focusing on improving the jump and not getting them last season.
Really sad to see Mao pop the Loop. The first couple jump mistakes didn't matter too much, given what she is attempting, but this one was unforgivable. I'm sorry to say it, but Nobuo Sato has only hurt her skating. I think purely in terms of performance, though, this is actually the best Mao has executed her Short Program this season. Of course, even with that great performance level, she still isn't really able to execute this choreography...too many "funny" movements that just don't like right when she does them.
Gracie Gold - This is pretty much what I expected. I thought she would be somewhat shaky, but mostly deliver, and that's what happened. Can't wait to see her improve even more. One annoying thing, though - why does she frontload her jumps so much in this program? Throwing points way for no reason.
Sotnikova - She has a very technically pleasing combination of huge jumps and great flexibility. Needs to be less swingy when doing the second 3Toe in combination, that's what makes her underrotate it.
Tuktamysheva - Out of all the surprising spin mistakes today, hers was the most disastrous. That's too bad. And then to do a waxel too...unfortunately not her day. I really think she has a lot of great artistic, potential, though. Her LP has been underrated all year. And obviously she's a great jumper. Needs to try and fix the layback; that sideways position is atrocious.
Murakami - SOOOO happy she finally got judged fairly. A well deserved 2nd place.
The rambunctious Canadian girl did a very good job. She actually deserves the highest transitions component out of everyone. Needs a little more maturity and thoughtful choreography, and the spins could be better too. 3rd place.
Ashley Wagner's performance was solid. Well-controlled and engaging for the most part. It's too bad the last section of the program is underwhelming. Her footwork sequence is merely adequate and that final spin is disappointing. I would have put her 4th.
Kostner's second toeloop in combination absolutely should have got a < call (it honestly could have even been called << when you look at how she pre-rotates on the ice) and -3 GOE across the board for that combination. The program is hackneyed too; those Program Components for choreography should be a lot lower. Deserved 5th place at best.
Suzuki was unfortunately not on her game today. It's my favorite SP of the season, though, and she deserved to be in the final flight of skaters going into the LP, given how flawed the rest of the field was. Also, missing that last position in the flying camel didn't hurt the program at all because it's one of the weaker positions she attempts anyway and it never looks great. I hope she puts the 3Lutz back in the SP next season. I'm annoyed at the edge calls she was getting on it this season, after really focusing on improving the jump and not getting them last season.
Really sad to see Mao pop the Loop. The first couple jump mistakes didn't matter too much, given what she is attempting, but this one was unforgivable. I'm sorry to say it, but Nobuo Sato has only hurt her skating. I think purely in terms of performance, though, this is actually the best Mao has executed her Short Program this season. Of course, even with that great performance level, she still isn't really able to execute this choreography...too many "funny" movements that just don't like right when she does them.
Gracie Gold - This is pretty much what I expected. I thought she would be somewhat shaky, but mostly deliver, and that's what happened. Can't wait to see her improve even more. One annoying thing, though - why does she frontload her jumps so much in this program? Throwing points way for no reason.
Sotnikova - She has a very technically pleasing combination of huge jumps and great flexibility. Needs to be less swingy when doing the second 3Toe in combination, that's what makes her underrotate it.
Tuktamysheva - Out of all the surprising spin mistakes today, hers was the most disastrous. That's too bad. And then to do a waxel too...unfortunately not her day. I really think she has a lot of great artistic, potential, though. Her LP has been underrated all year. And obviously she's a great jumper. Needs to try and fix the layback; that sideways position is atrocious.
LOL. Really? Behind Wagner?
Both landed 2 triples + 2A cleanly, but Caro's quality is supremely superior.
Caro scored higher in both spins and steps. Caro is superior in every PCS. And behind Wagner? Think with your head.
Aside from Japan, I think Caro would make the team every single year anywhere else in the world.
Look at her competitive skating career.
The only time she was vulnerable was in two seasons, 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 season.
In 2008-2009, she was the reigning World medalist. She made it to the GPF and medaled there as well. Who did the US send to world? Alissa and Rachael. If the USF had Caro, they would keep either Alissa or Rachael at home.
In 2009-2010, she was a mess, but rallied at Euro to win it. Who did we send? Rachael and Mirai. Well, maybe the USF will keep her at home this year, but it was Olympic year, they probably prop up her PCS up a la Alissa to make sure there was a medal contender.
After 2010, none of the US girls come close.
Which other countries would keep Caro at home? Canada?
Just because you heard it from someone doesn't make it true.
This kind of fits in with what I was saying - lacking artistry is treated as a bigger fail than falling! The judges seem able to overlook a fall if the skating is beautiful, but if it's just average your more minor mistakes get dinged more. Can't say too much about Ross specifically though because I also thought he was undermarked.
While having Ottavio as head of the ISU as a benefit to Carolina is up for debate, I think it's very disingenuous to the lovely spicy diva Valentina Marchei (who beat Carolina at 2010 Nationals, and was great at this year's Euros) to say that Carolina has no competition in her country.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
I think at least 75% of people (if not more) were standing in the end. doesn't that count as a standing ovation although not as fancy as the awe-inspiring standing ovation you mentioned? I totally get your point btw.
I agree with you that Yuna's sp is lacking a connection with the audience if we compare it to her other programs in the past.
But again, she's just come back to the field (she hasn't been competing since 11 worlds as far as I remember. and even in that year, she only competed at the worlds). Therefore, I don't think it's reasonable for us to expect something phenomenal programs that would blow us away at this stage (as her past programs did). Anyway, I'm quite satisfied with her sp and lp this year
I think at least 75% of people (if not more) were standing in the end. doesn't that count as a standing ovation although not as fancy as the awe-inspiring standing ovation you mentioned? I totally get your point btw.
I agree with you that Yuna's sp is lacking a connection with the audience if we compare it to her other programs in the past.
But again, she's just come back to the field (she hasn't been competing since 11 worlds as far as I remember. and even in that year, she only competed at the worlds). Therefore, I don't think it's reasonable for us to expect something phenomenal programs that would blow us away at this stage (as her past programs did). Anyway, I'm quite satisfied with her sp and lp this year
Hmm but I don't think the problem is with Yuna, but rather with the program itself. She performed it as best she could, and yet the explosive response wasn't there. Her last LP, the Arirang one, even though she never really performed it to it's 100 percent potential, you could tell it was an amazing program that would have blown the roof off if she'd nailed it. Thus, with this SP I think the fault lies not with Yuna but with David Wilson. And that's a surprise to me because usually I'm buying what David Wilson is selling!
Finally watched the ladies' SP. I think this was one of the worst Worlds ever in terms of Ladies judging.
Kostner's hard fall on 3T was not sufficiently reflected in her marks and standing.
Asada didn't have any triple jump cleanly executed. She singled the loop, underrotated 3F, and underrotated & two-footed 3A which gave her +0.14 GOE.
And she finished 6th in the SP.
I know judges favor Kostner and Asada, but figure skating is a sport. Please don't remind me of Salt Lake City.
Kostner's hard fall on 3T was not sufficiently reflected in her marks and standing.
Asada didn't have any triple jump cleanly executed. She singled the loop, underrotated 3F, and underrotated & two-footed 3A which gave her +0.14 GOE.
And she finished 6th in the SP.
I know judges favor Kostner and Asada, but figure skating is a sport. Please don't remind me of Salt Lake City.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
The fact that only Kaetlyn (from Canada) and Yu-Na got a standing O proves everything.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
I blame on the music xD
Ha, ha! Valentina is extremely lovely as is Silvia Fontana Zimmerman, but clearly neither Valentina nor Silvia ever had the talent that Carolina possesses. I'm talking about lack of talented depth. Clearly Carolina doesn't have any serious, heavy competition in her country. Much more depth of talented competition exists in the United States, Japan, and Canada than in most other countries.
As to Flattfan, yeah Carolina is a lovely talented skater who is defending world champion, but if you don't think it makes a difference to come from a country that the head of the ISU is also from, think again. I'm not saying that will necessarily buy you a championship. A skater obviously has to have good skills and gain a good reputation, but clearly a good skater who is talented and competitive can and does benefit from savvy federation politics, especially in Carolina's case. There were a few years when Carolina made the podium with mistakes that should not have rewarded her with a medal. She should feel very charmed and happy. No one is saying that she hasn't tremendously improved and deserves to be highly regarded and rewarded, but when you make mistakes that other top-rated skaters did not make, in the high stakes and with the talented depth that exists today, ya gotta pay and not get off lightly. You know good and well that had Ash made the slightest mistake, she would have paid big time!
