the Ice Dance "Fix" is in

[snowflakebeautiful]

I agree that they do not need to "fix" this competition, D/W could win on their own. However, with so many ice dance scandals in the past, sometimes it is hard not to think there is a shred of truth. For all these people saying horrible things about Canadian skaters and them "whining" shame on you. What journalists choose to write is not the opinion of the athletes, obviously. Canadians have faced many judging scandals in the past and dealt with them accordingly, its never the skaters involved faults, it is the federations. The Canadian federation does not pressure its judges to mark a certain way, as previous federations (especially in the 90s) did (remember the foot tapping incident, and the taped phone calls with pressure to mark a certain way). I hope no new scandal comes up, I fear for the sport if it does.
Both D/W and V/M are amazing teams, V/M deserved to win in 10 and well see who deserves it this year after FD.

I think a lot of people are tired of the "fix" talk because it's not all that logical since the figure skaters involved were all favorites coming into the Olympics. I think everyone can acknowledge fixes have definitely happened in the past, but it would be a complete shame if it were to happen this year because these skaters didn't need a fix to earn their medals.
And I don't think people are complaining about Canadians in general (even though it may seem that way). I think it's more aimed at the fact that a lot of V/M fans (no matter where they are from) have been saying the only reason D/W might win is because of a fix...which isn't true.
Personally, I like both teams; and enjoy watching them equally when they both skate great performances.

 

[L_Canada]

It sounds more like the Canadian/French press is sour that they are second and are trying to stir up some controversy where they award a second OGM in at least Dance - since barring a bobble it should stick with in a couple points between D/W and V/M.

I do not agree that the Canadian press is sour. From what I know Canada is proud of V/M no matter what, they just do not want yet another judging scandal. It has been so long and so nice without one. It has brought legitimacy back to the sport, I hate when there is talk of stuff like this because it takes away from the event and the athletes.

 

[Ladskater]

Maybe "fix" is the wrong terminology, but one does wonder if the term "favoritism" could be applied to D/W. I watched both teams short programs today and could not see how D/W were scored 2 points higher than V/M. They did not skate any better than V/M. I don't get what the big deal is about D/W. They never make eye contact when they skate, they never connect with their music or each other and there is no change in tempo in their music. They fly around the ice frantically. At least V/M show emotion, look like they are actually dancing and have fast and slow movements to their programs. If it was a speed skating event yes then D/W would get top marks. It does raise suspicion when there is such a wide gap marginally by the judges right off the starting gate.

 

[L_Canada]

:agree:

Maybe "fix" is the wrong terminology, but one does wonder if the term "favoritism" could be applied to D/W. I watched both teams short programs today and could not see how D/W were scored 2 points higher than V/M. They did not skate any better than V/M. I don't get what the big deal is about D/W. They never make eye contact when they skate, they never connect with their music or each other and there is no change in tempo in their music. They fly around the ice frantically. At least V/M show emotion, look like they are actually dancing and have fast and slow movements to their programs. If it was a speed skating event yes then D/W would get top marks. It does raise suspicion when there is such a wide gap marginally by the judges right off the starting gate.

 

[PftJump]

V/M is more lovely couple.

D/W is more competitive performers.

And FS is sport. That's why D/W get more score.

But I don't agree that point gap. Maximum 1 point, I think.

 

[Mrs. P]

Maybe "fix" is the wrong terminology, but one does wonder if the term "favoritism" could be applied to D/W. I watched both teams short programs today and could not see how D/W were scored 2 points higher than V/M. They did not skate any better than V/M. I don't get what the big deal is about D/W. They never make eye contact when they skate, they never connect with their music or each other and there is no change in tempo in their music. They fly around the ice frantically. At least V/M show emotion, look like they are actually dancing and have fast and slow movements to their programs. If it was a speed skating event yes then D/W would get top marks. It does raise suspicion when there is such a wide gap marginally by the judges right off the starting gate.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l7rvde-6hV4/UwEcV9dMEJI/AAAAAAAAKAU/yV4GR88xhF8/s1600/SD12.jpg

Unless Meryl is looking THROUGH Charlie...that looks like eye contact to me.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2FazBmQ6exs/UwEcZSa89xI/AAAAAAAAKBg/50kAyf6mEQg/s1600/SD20.jpg

Charlie's looking at Meryl it seems...

 

[meem]

Heh heh...thanks Mrs. P. It's always amused me to hear on & on ad nauseum how much of a romantic couple V/M are on ice as opposed to those "technicians" D/W. Meryl certainly does look at Charlie while they're skating their programs; they just don't make cow eyes at each other as they approach center ice. Neither V/M nor D/W are a "couple"; they're each a "team", it's a sport, all four of them are athletes. Sheesh.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l7rvde-6hV4/UwEcV9dMEJI/AAAAAAAAKAU/yV4GR88xhF8/s1600/SD12.jpg

Unless Meryl is looking THROUGH Charlie...that looks like eye contact to me.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2FazBmQ6exs/UwEcZSa89xI/AAAAAAAAKBg/50kAyf6mEQg/s1600/SD20.jpg

Charlie's looking at Meryl it seems...

 

[dress]

Maybe "fix" is the wrong terminology, but one does wonder if the term "favoritism" could be applied to D/W. I watched both teams short programs today and could not see how D/W were scored 2 points higher than V/M. They did not skate any better than V/M. I don't get what the big deal is about D/W. They never make eye contact when they skate, they never connect with their music or each other and there is no change in tempo in their music. They fly around the ice frantically. At least V/M show emotion, look like they are actually dancing and have fast and slow movements to their programs. If it was a speed skating event yes then D/W would get top marks. It does raise suspicion when there is such a wide gap marginally by the judges right off the starting gate.

exactly

 

[NorthernDancers]

I do not agree that the Canadian press is sour. From what I know Canada is proud of V/M no matter what, they just do not want yet another judging scandal. It has been so long and so nice without one. It has brought legitimacy back to the sport, I hate when there is talk of stuff like this because it takes away from the event and the athletes.

I agree with I_Canada. These reports fit into a narrative about skating in Canada. Because of past scandals, its really difficult to attract people to the sport of skating, and to take skating seriously. It's just a glorified beauty pageant where the results are pre-determined. Why participate in such an expensive activity when it's so corrupt? Sorry, but that's what the media in Canada thinks about skating. Usually skating is relegated to the last pages of the sport section. When people talk about being involved in skating, many in the general public will smile nice but think them a fool, or even openly laugh. When L'Equipe came out with their story, it fits right into what the Canadian media and general public already think about skating. Those in the sport understand how things have changed, but not the general public who only understand hockey, hockey and more hockey (with the odd shot of American football and basketball).

It doesn't help when many in the sport of skating have been questioning the results V/M have been receiving these last few years. Carmen was very under-valued. The scores at GPF are highly suspect (an error free V/M should have topped D/W with a mistake for sure). The scores at COR were really not right. And the Team Event scores were ridiculous in Sochi. Even today, there are many who feel that V/M were supremely underscored. When you look at the attention to detail, the speed, the flow, the incredibly difficult transitions done so smoothly, the incredible lines, the deep edges, the lightness with which they skated, the way in which they use their entire bodies, their musicality, their connection to each other and the music, the control... They should have had 80 points for what they did. If they had 80 points, then D/W marks would make more sense, as would I/K marks, who skated very well today. (I would have switched W/P with B/S as well.) When you add this historical undervaluing and seemingly deliberate avoidance of the rules and criteria of ice dance to the L'Equipe story, one gets a great front page story. There's just enough smoke here to think there might be a fire.

I would like to see this story investigated further. I have a feeling if P/B finish off the podium, we may actually learn more about this so called "fix". Perhaps with some evidence this time. Clearing the air, one way or the other, would be good for all concerned. I'm not certain there really is a "fix". It's certainly possible, but I think this has more to do with an underlying fight for the heart and soul of ice dance. Is it all about speed? Is it more about athletics or art? What makes ice dance, well, ice dance? What's most important when deciding results? D/W are all about speed. They are clinicians. They can check the boxes just like V/M on the technical components. But is it dance? Should it be judged higher or better in GOE? Or perhaps GOE maybe is a little undervalued for V/M but V/M should be judged higher and D/W lower in PCS to reflect the quality of all those details that make this dance (ie. skating skills, transitions, performance and execution, etc.) Right now the pendulum of opinion among judges (and yes, they do talk ... ice dance is a very small world) is towards D/W, but many feel that it should swing towards V/M. And I think there is also a huge misconception that because D/W skate fast, it must be harder and better. It's not the case. It is much more difficult to do what V/M do. And V/M are not slow. Just watch the ice coverage. They cover the same amount of ice in record time without looking like they are working hard. It's the quality and technique with which they generate their speed. There is a reason why so many ice dancers themselves, their fellow competitors as well as long time coaches and participants in the sport from so many countries, hold V/M as the gold standard in ice dance. This doesn't make D/W bad. It just means that to so many, V/M are truly special and unique, and what makes them special and unique is not being adequately rewarded as compared to the rules and criteria.

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

Maybe "fix" is the wrong terminology, but one does wonder if the term "favoritism" could be applied to D/W. I watched both teams short programs today and could not see how D/W were scored 2 points higher than V/M. They did not skate any better than V/M. I don't get what the big deal is about D/W. They never make eye contact when they skate, they never connect with their music or each other and there is no change in tempo in their music. They fly around the ice frantically. At least V/M show emotion, look like they are actually dancing and have fast and slow movements to their programs. If it was a speed skating event yes then D/W would get top marks. It does raise suspicion when there is such a wide gap marginally by the judges right off the starting gate.

And you don't think there was any "favoritism" or advantage at the Vancouver Olympics for V/M? --> Personally, I like both pairs. I'm trying to make the point that there's always a bias coming into the games, always. I agree that I thought V/M would've/should've had a higher score than what they got tonight. However, they weren't completely flawless technically; and this is a sport.

Personally, I think they both show the appropriate emotions for their programs. They have 2 very different SD programs.

As to D/W skating better than V/M.....They both did exceedingly well tonight! I love both couples....but, I think that technically D/W were even cleaner than V/M. And being "clean" is not clinical or connection-less. It takes a great connection to be that in-synch (with of course, greatly refined technical ability).

And...IF there was favoritism, it's probably due to the fact that D/W have been beating V/M in competitions lately....And they both just performed in the team program last week....Meaning that the first impression may have already been made (as unfair as that can seem).

 

[aragray]

i feel like v/m knew they would be 2nd coming into this competition, as they haven't beaten d/w since 2012 (i think). fix or no fix, these articles are a bit unfair to d/w in the way that the Americans are portrayed. personally, i feel that d/w's FD is stronger and that they would've won even with a 2nd place finish in the SD, but again thats just an opinion. hope the public/casual skating fan blames the system rather than the skaters.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

It's totally fixed. I just watched the short dance on TV. I&K should have won with Chock and Bates second. The rest, meh.

Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski felt the same way!

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

i feel like v/m knew they would be 2nd coming into this competition, as they haven't beaten d/w since 2012 (i think). fix or no fix, these articles are a bit unfair to d/w in the way that the Americans are portrayed. personally, i feel that d/w's FD is stronger and that they would've won even with a 2nd place finish in the SD, but again thats just an opinion. hope the public/casual skating fan blames the system rather than the skaters.

:agree:

 

[sky_fly20]

is this Rossie DiManno a journalist or some sort of a tabloid writer
her article is a joke

http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi...nd_after_olympic_ice_dance_short_program.html

Virtue-Moir suspicious second after Olympic ice dance short: DiManno

It can be done, surpassing the Americans. But given how generously they’ve been marked for two years now — defeating the Canadians in their last four head-to-head competitions, including worlds last March in London, Ont. — the Yanks would damn near have to fall on their backsides to blow it.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes. I have even heard quite a few Canadians say DiManno is a tabloid writer.

 

[Skater Boy]

Fix or n o fix the SD scores for D and W seem inflated and at thev ery least good agument could be made for V and M to be first as well as and or I and k. D and W werelessthan convincing and there were some "errors but the US did not seem to get penalized. I am sure they will gold legit or otherwise but the judigng is very suspect. Adn i sense the judges are giving marks pcs wise to D and W and V and m way too generously. these performances are not nearly as strong as Vancouver. The Finn step was not a good choice for the olympics especially marketing wise. The fix wehther it exists or not there is some smelly judging.

 

[Ven]

It seems Petri Kokko (the creator of the Finnstep) tweeted the following:

I don’t understand the judging in #icedancing. @Virtue_Moir should be leading in my honest opinion.

Hope @Virtue_Moir wins. Americans timing off in the #finnstep and restrained even otherwise.

Phil Hersh wrote about this in the Chicago Tribune. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ce-dance-controversy-20140217,0,6117808.story

So the judging scandal theories are not going away.

 

[RABID]

I have been in England for over a week now and this is the first time posting over here. I have been watching BBC's Robin Cousin's play by play. I trust him and he believes, like me, that though VM are the more appealing of the teams, the PLACING is right (I believe he isn't so sure about the point differential though). I have resigned myself to the inevitability of Meryl and Charlie winning gold. However I hope VM dont lose hope, skate less then what they are capable of and leave us all with poor memories. So far they have been brilliant. Some of the other placings are much more controversial in my opinion though. (doing this in a public library)

 

[babyskate]

I admit I do not fully understand the judging/scoring of ice dancing so could someone explain to me why the Shibsibs do not score higher. I loved their performance and everything about them on the ice. They looked fast, in sync and I felt projected well to the audience and TV viewers. I ran into them in Boston after the ladies long on a quiet street behind the TD Garden. Such gracious people, funny, and stunning to look at. I was having so much fun with them, it felt like running into old friends.

 

[Olympia]

None of us ever understands why the judges mark things their way and not ours. (I'm still replaying Michelle vs. Tara from 1998.) But unless there's evidence to the contrary, using the word "fix" is insulting not just to the judges but to the skaters. If Davis and White win, is it because they weren't really good enough but that some backroom deal assured their victory? That's the implication.

When news reports bring such items up almost like pop star gossip, it's bad enough. They have no understanding of judging's intricacy but merely want to make headlines. They use innuendo to make points that they can't prove. But for us to talk that way as experienced fans is unfair, I think. We know that judging is an imperfect process at best, and judges' preferences will inevitably color their results by a shade one way or the other. Let's face, it, ice dancing is harder to evaluate than other disciplines because there are rarely falls to make the difference. Everyone is very good. Judges don't have the luxury of listening to a board discussion for several hours before handing in their verdict. They might go against our wishes or make some actual miscalculation, but that doesn't come anywhere near the idea of a fix.