Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

[ioanablabla]

Yeah the winner was a foregone conclusion after the short program. Even more after the judging panel was drawn. Pretty much a total bore, no point even having the free skate.

Even after the team event it was clear the fix was in for Russia to win gold in every event but the ice dance. Plushenko WD so someone else was able to win the mens too as they had no entry (obviously Kovtun or Voronov would have won had they been able to fill in).

I wouldn't go that far. The Russian girls still had to skate their best in order to beat some of the contenders (Carolina, Yuna, Mao), and as much as I don't like how the Olympics ended, Adelina did that. I think if one of the FS of the other three were to be WOW (for the crowd too, to beat Adelina's WOW moment, maybe the winner could have changed). Carolina skated before Adelina, Yuna had a more subtle program so... Maybe Mao's was a bigger WOW moment, but sadly she wasn't in the books anymore. I wonder what would have happend if she had a clean SP.

 

[Meoima]

I wouldn't go that far. The Russian girls still had to skate their best in order to beat some of the contenders (Carolina, Yuna, Mao), and as much as I don't like how the Olympics ended, Adelina did that. I think if one of the FS of the other three were to be WOW (for the crowd too, to beat Adelina's WOW moment, maybe the winner could have changed). Carolina skated before Adelina, Yuna had a more subtle program so... Maybe Mao's was a bigger WOW moment, but sadly she wasn't in the books anymore. I wonder what would have happend if she had a clean SP.

It's true. If Adelina just tumbled in her FS like PChan did, they wouldn't have given her the gold. Frankly, even though I don't agree with the final score, I still prefer Adelina's FS over Yuna. I mean Adelina was much more energetic and she deserved a medal.

The best FS of that night was Mao, second Adelina, third Carolina, Yuna only came fourth in my opinion.

Having said that, I think Yuna and Caro's lead in the FS should have been much higher. Thus the gold should have gone to either of these 2.

 

[sk8in]

I really would have liked to see what would happen if Julia had also been clean that night. I wouldn't put it past that judging panel to place her first and Adelina second.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

^

 

[MiRé]

It's true. If Adelina just tumbled in her FS like PChan did, they wouldn't have given her the gold. Frankly, even though I don't agree with the final score, I still prefer Adelina's FS over Yuna. I mean Adelina was much more energetic and she deserved a medal.

The best FS of that night was Mao, second Adelina, third Carolina, Yuna only came fourth in my opinion.

Having said that, I think Yuna and Caro's lead in the FS should have been much higher. Thus the gold should have gone to either of these 2.

Adios nonino is NOT suppose to be an energetic program.... do you even know the music at all?

 

[Meoima]

Adios nonino is NOT suppose to be an energetic program.... do you even know the music at all?

I know that music and I have watched other skaters performed Adios nonino more than once. For example, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and Chen Lu. I feel much more when I watch them performed the same music as Yuna.

When I say Yuna's Adios nonino made me feel flat, I compare her performance to the ladies above. I guess it's the matter of personal taste, then. You might find them sloppier but personally I think they conveyed that music better than Yuna. And it's not just me, I have a friend who also shared my opinion about Yuna's Adios nonino. Yuna was great and her performance were consistent as usual, but we felt flat. And frankly, a bit dull. I think Caro showed us more charm in her FS. That's it.

Having said that, I disagree with the final placement. Either Yuna or Caro should have won gold due to their SP being much more superior to Adelina, but were both held down on purpose.

PS: And I have re-watched the ladies event not just 2 or 3 times, but 5 times. At first when I said I like Adelina's FS that day, people bashed me and say I am anti-Yuna and Adelina-uber eventhough I have known Yuna from 2010, and before Sochi I hadn't had a clue who Adelina was (because usually I don't follow ladies as much as men, not fan of the ladies).

I had thought maybe I was wrong because everyone was crazy about Yuna being robbed. I watched their programs again, and again. I still couldn't place Yuna's performance that day above Adelina's even though after 3 or 4 times watching Adelina, I have fed up with her style.

If you ask me do I like Adelina's skating style? NO, and I'm afraid that will be never.
If you ask me do I think Adelina performed better that day? Yes.
But do I think the final placement was wrong? Yes. I would prefer either Caro or Yuna.

The only one who I think performed better than Adelina that day is Mao, but she was out of the podium anyway, even if they marked her 153 points.

 

[JayW]

I know that music and I have watched other skaters performed Adios nonino more than once. For example, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and Chen Lu. I feel much more when I watch them perform the same music as Yuna.

I prefer Chen's as well. Chen's Adios was a wonderful piece, and I think she has a better music cut.
Yuna's music version/arrangement is so difficult to interoperate. I feel:

1) It exposes every flaw she may have.
2) It doesn't let her rest.
3) It is too reserved and not exciting enough for Olympic season.

The Les Mis. was a much better piece for OGM.

Plus, the Russian camera angle doesn't help either. I am so convinced that the camera man did it on purpose.

 

[Mathman]

Adios nonino is NOT suppose to be an energetic program.... do you even know the music at all?

I still say that if Yuna had skated to Carmen she would have won. Instead she followed her muse with the result that we have an exquisitely constructed work of art and she has a silver medal.

In the old days there was a formula for constructing a winning program. A rambunctious opening segment displaying the skater's hardest tricks, then the aptly named "slow part" allowing the her to catch her breath while doing pretty ballet-like movements and poses, followed by a hang-on-to-your-hat finish with high leaps, fancy steps, and blur spins.

In ice dance there was even a rule -- I think there still is -- that the music cannot be too sad, too introspective, or too thought-provoking.

 

[Meoima]

Plus, the Russian camera angle doesn't help either. I am so convinced that the camera man did it on purpose.

Other skaters also looked better in Worlds when you compare their performance to Sochi, so I don't think the cameramen did it on purpose. Maybe they were just bad at capturing the best angle.

 

[JayW]

Other skaters also looked better in Worlds when you compare their performance to Sochi, so I don't think the cameramen did it on purpose. Maybe they were just bad at capturing the best angle.

Maybe. The NBC version looks much better in both SP and LP, especially on those gorgeous 3lz-3ts.

 

[Jump]

I still say that if Yuna had skated to Carmen she would have won. Instead she followed her muse with the result that we have an exquisitely constructed work of art and she has a silver medal.

In the old days there was a formula for constructing a winning program. A rambunctious opening segment displaying the skater's hardest tricks, then the aptly named "slow part" allowing the her to catch her breath while doing pretty ballet-like movements and poses, followed by a hang-on-to-your-hat finish with high leaps, fancy steps, and blur spins.

In ice dance there was even a rule -- I think there still is -- that the music cannot be too sad, too introspective, or too thought-provoking.

I don't even think her Les Mes program from 2013 WC would have won. She basically needed 150 points in the free skate. That wasn't going to happen regardless of the program. So it's a good thing she skated to Adios Nonino.

 

[Meoima]

Yuna's music version/arrangement is so difficult to interoperate. I feel:
1) It exposes every flaw she may have.
2) It doesn't let her rest.
3) It is too reserved and not exciting enough for Olympic season.

It's not only PChan and Hanyu and Javi's "so so" long programs, now I have another reason to dislike David Wilson!

 

[Mathman]

Here is one of my all-time favorite Olympic performances. Liz Manley won the long program (second overall) in Calgary in 1988.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV179v0zjkM

This is pure Barnum and Bailey. There was no way the judges could hold back with the 5.8s and 5.9s. A girl in a cowboy hat in Alberta, home of the Calgary Stampede!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

^arty:^

 

[skatedreamer]

Here is one of my all-time favorite Olympic performances. Liz Manley won the long program (second overall) in Calgary in 1988.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV179v0zjkM

This is pure Barnum and Bailey. There was no way the judges could hold back with the 5.8s and 5.9s. A girl in a cowboy hat in Alberta, home of the Calgary Stampede!

Absolutely! After sub-par skates from both Katarina & Debi, Liz totally saved that night for me.

 

[pangtongfan]

It's true. If Adelina just tumbled in her FS like PChan did, they wouldn't have given her the gold.

I strongly suspect she still would have won even then. Either that or since Julia skated after Adelina, they would have instead inflated Julia's scores for her less splatty LP (than Chan's, Sotnikova's hypothetical one) and underscored Kim even more drastically to give Julia the gold, despite switching their fixed scores to Adelina from Julia after Julia's SP.

Either way Russia had to win the ladies gold. Putin had payed far too much money for it not to happen, especialy after the mens gold he also payed for was made impossible by Plushenko's WD and him being the only entry.

 

[Ven]

I strongly suspect she still would have won even then. Either that or since Julia skated after Adelina, they would have instead inflated Julia's scores for her less splatty LP (than Chan's, Sotnikova's hypothetical one) and underscored Kim even more drastically to give Julia the gold, despite switching their fixed scores to Adelina from Julia after Julia's SP.

Either way Russia had to win the ladies gold. Putin had payed far too much money for it not to happen, especialy after the mens gold he also payed for was made impossible by Plushenko's WD and him being the only entry.

1. Sotnikova skated after Lipnitskaia

2. Either many posters are naive or lack critical thinking skills or I don't know what .... but Sotnikova's scores tell you all you need to know. She could have outright fallen on a triple and still won. In fact, she didn't even complete one of her triples, and that was ignored. She didn't do another jump correctly, and that was ignored. Had she made further mistakes, the scores guaranteed that her margin was enough to overcome those too, had they happened.

The simple fact is that the results were agreed upon (in some manner) by the ISU and/or contingent of any number of Federations/judges even before the competition took place.

The scores were basically made up and goal-seeked to match agreed upon outcomes. The scores have no objective meaning on their own. End of story.

 

[Meoima]

I strongly suspect she still would have won even then. Either that or since Julia skated after Adelina, they would have instead inflated Julia's scores for her less splatty LP (than Chan's, Sotnikova's hypothetical one) and underscored Kim even more drastically to give Julia the gold, despite switching their fixed scores to Adelina from Julia after Julia's SP.

But you forgot that only Adelina had the smallest margin with Yuna after SP. It's very difficult to give the gold to Yulia since she had a fall in the SP, even if she skated clean in the LP. Same thing with Adelina, she made a visible mistake but it was not fatal. And if she were someone like Kostner, her PCS would be much more believable, people would think she still deserves the gold because her base value is high so she has room for a little bit error.
The only one who can come close to the gold at that time was top 3. If they did not pick Adelina, they couldn't pick up Yulia either. If Adelina had a fall, I doubt that they would give her the gold. Because, that would be too much to normal people. Some don't understand the judging, but when they were explained that Adelina had a more difficult program, they say ok we get it. But if she had a fall, it would be more difficult for them to understand. The judges took risks by giving Adelina the gold, but only when she stayed on her feet.

 

[cuon_alpinus]

I know that music and I have watched other skaters performed Adios nonino more than once. For example, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and Chen Lu. I feel much more when I watch them performed the same music as Yuna.

When I say Yuna's Adios nonino made me feel flat, I compare her performance to the ladies above. I guess it's the matter of personal taste, then. You might find them sloppier but personally I think they conveyed that music better than Yuna. And it's not just me, I have a friend who also shared my opinion about Yuna's Adios nonino. Yuna was great and her performance were consistent as usual, but we felt flat. And frankly, a bit dull. I think Caro showed us more charm in her FS. That's it.

Having said that, I disagree with the final placement. Either Yuna or Caro should have won gold due to their SP being much more superior to Adelina, but were both held down on purpose.

PS: And I have re-watched the ladies event not just 2 or 3 times, but 5 times. At first when I said I like Adelina's FS that day, people bashed me and say I am anti-Yuna and Adelina-uber eventhough I have known Yuna from 2010, and before Sochi I hadn't had a clue who Adelina was (because usually I don't follow ladies as much as men, not fan of the ladies).

I had thought maybe I was wrong because everyone was crazy about Yuna being robbed. I watched their programs again, and again. I still couldn't place Yuna's performance that day above Adelina's even though after 3 or 4 times watching Adelina, I have fed up with her style.

If you ask me do I like Adelina's skating style? NO, and I'm afraid that will be never.
If you ask me do I think Adelina performed better that day? Yes.
But do I think the final placement was wrong? Yes. I would prefer either Caro or Yuna.

The only one who I think performed better than Adelina that day is Mao, but she was out of the podium anyway, even if they marked her 153 points.

It wasn't as impressive like her other programs(gershwin, les mis) at first, but as I watch more and more, I started to recognize the true beauty of her program. To me, it's filled with impressive choreography and step sequences. Moving vigorously doesn't equate difficulty. Yuna became one with the music and played the music. She even presented several tango movements well like 'enrosque', 'voleo', and 'abrazo'. She performed 'nuevo tango' very well. To me, this is the most difficult and impressive program among any other programs from Yuna. Never gets boring even after watching many times.

At first, I couldn't understand the program and was baffled at her cold looking performance. She could have chosen more enthusiastic music. I also hoped that she would bring back other program like les mis, but I guess Yuna didn't like to bring old programs as she has never done.

The music is about elegy to late father. Therefore, Yuna's performance is different from ordinary sassy Tango(different from her previous roxanne de tango). It's about a memory of past, most of the performance is subdued, emotions are burning inside, occasionally a flash of lightness and smile, even a little flirtatious, and reflecting the memory of good times. in the end, reminisce of everything: good, bad, ugly.

Her music was very risk-taking that just little mistake can ruin the whole program as her choreography is structured very tightly.

I prefer you watching this in 720p. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxwLFo0a6PSQUlN0eTVnY3lCalU/edit It's a camera-mixed version.

Let me just clarify about Mao and Kostner. I don't mean to bash or belittle them, but I'm afraid Mao and Kostner don't deserve the first place. I love mao's step-sequence, but her jumps are executed in wrong techniques. I loved Kostner's Ave Maria personally as a catholic. Kostner was very emotional and has good step sequence, but she doesn't have good transitions and her speed before executing her jumps are slower than she was years before. I think she decided to go with consistency rather than the quality.

 

[Meoima]

I am afraid I have to disagree, because my first impression is usually right (for me) and it works for me all the time. I feel Adelina lived with her program much better than Yuna at FS that night, and I have rewatched the programs many times to confirm it.

I am not Mao's fan, but her performance that day was the only one that make me feel the power, the will and the desperation, there was so much in her performance that day, I have to give her credit for that. And it's so ironic because I dislike Rachmaninov so much. Cheesy music to my ears.

I know you are a dire hard fan of Yuna, so obviously you are biased toward her. I am sorry, but I am not. Her performance at Vancouver is legendary, so maybe I expected too much from her. I guess we can't create the same miracle twice.

I can't not undo my impression of Yuna's Fs this year. If you ask me why, then simply it the same reply that many people from Fsuniverse has answered: I feel flat. It's like you drink the most expensive wine in the world, and you know it's good, but it couldn't make you want to drink more, simply because the taste is not that exquisite to you.

I am not a fan of Johnny Weir, but there is one thing I agree with him about Yuna that night: She is the queen, but she was flat. People dare not criticize her, but I have to say that I truly feel flat.

I do think Yuna could have done much better performance in Sochi, if it hadn't because of the crowd, the judges, the pressure, the injuries...but what's done is done.

Mao and Yuna, in my eyes, are pretty girls, but not charming women. They gave me different vibe. Mao that day gave me the vibe of the fighter, as she had nothing to lose. Yuna, well, the vibe of the diva, but she was not what she was used to be. Adelina gave me the vibe "I could die for this gold".

As for Caro, she was much more charming, and I think she is the more refined skater. She is always charming, even when she is off. She has the quality that other ladies don't have: the maturity of a charming women.