State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[hippomoomin]

Just out of curiosity, is Christina Gao still skating? She has GP assignments but heard nothing about her skating since the national. I though the plan was to retire after the Olympic year. How does she manage to train when is studying at Harvard? Or does Harvard actuarially give her strong incentive to keeping on training?

 

[surimi]

^ Yes she is. She's to compete at Cup of China and NHK. She's keeping her last season's FP so I suppose that partly helps to keep up with the studies.

 

[Selene]

I know it’s very early in the season, but the early results have been very disappointing for the US Ladies. The Russian Ladies are all nailing their performances while the US Ladies are falling flat on their faces.

None of the American girls have made an impact on the JGP circuit. Unless Karen Chen skates lights out in the final JGP event, no American girl will qualify for the JGP Final.

Polina Edmunds won the US Classic, but her free skate was far from inspiring (from a performance and technical aspect.) I think the pressure got to her.

Courtney Hicks was very good at the US Classic. IMO, She is the best jumper in the US, but she will never get the PCS she needs to be competitive with the best ladies in the world.

Gracie Gold still has no jump consistency. And the Frank Carroll coaching change has ruined her jump quality and turned her into a pretty princess with boring programs that don’t suit her

Ashley Wagner and Mirai Nagasu are not rotating their jumps or landing the tough jump combinations that are necessary to compete with the Russian girls. I don't think either girl has the technical ability to challenge the best ladies in the world.

It’s very telling that the #5 and #6 Russians easily defeated the #1 US girl. It’s looking as if it will be yet another season without a US lady standing on the world podium (Polina is the only one who has any chance to challenge the Russians, imo, and she has to skate perfectly to do it.)

 

[kwanatic]

Karen Chen is in a good position to make it to the JGPF. I just posted my review for JGP Pokal on my blog and with Alexandra Proklova's poor performance this week, Karen's chances are looking a little better. She'll need to place 1st or 2nd in order to make the Final. A gold medal will qualify her automatically; if she's 2nd, she'll need a total score of 163.23 to win the tiebreaker and get that final spot. She wasn't that great at her first JGP event and managed a total score of 160+ so there's still hope for her...if she places 3rd however, she won't make the Final.

I agree, things are looking pretty dismal right now. I know it's still early in the season but it is really aggravating to see all of the Russians looking like it's the middle of the season while most of the US women are being given the "it's early in the season" excuse. That's why there hasn't been a US world medalist in the last two quads...:sarcasm:

 

[R.D.]

I know it's still early in the season but it is really aggravating to see all of the Russians looking like it's the middle of the season while most of the US women are being given the "it's early in the season" excuse.

Gotta admit I feel similarly...only because the US drought is nearly a decade long.

Tempting, but better to resist for now: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9EiMPIvWU...x8rXif7teM/s0/fun145_panic_button_300hand.jpg

 

[Amei]

I agree, things are looking pretty dismal right now. I know it's still early in the season but it is really aggravating to see all of the Russians looking like it's the middle of the season while most of the US women are being given the "it's early in the season" excuse.

Well I think it has do with the competitiveness in the 2 countries:
- U.S. there isn't really a huge threat of competition coming up for the ladies and doesn't really have a huge stable of girls that you can say without a doubt are a big threat for the podium - a lot of it really is 'if she does her best performance she has a shot".
- Russia on the other hand easily has 5-6 girls in the Senior circuit that anytime they step on the ice are threat for the podium and all those girls know that lurking in the Jr. circuit are girls that are going to be big-time threats in the next year or 2. And with the competitiveness of Russian ladies - these girls are probably getting it drilled on a daily basis, they have to perform top-notch all year - they can't afford a bad skate.

 

[kwanatic]

Well I think it has do with the competitiveness in the 2 countries:
- U.S. there isn't really a huge threat of competition coming up for the ladies and doesn't really have a huge stable of girls that you can say without a doubt are a big threat for the podium - a lot of it really is 'if she does her best performance she has a shot".
- Russia on the other hand easily has 5-6 girls in the Senior circuit that anytime they step on the ice are threat for the podium and all those girls know that lurking in the Jr. circuit are girls that are going to be big-time threats in the next year or 2. And with the competitiveness of Russian ladies - these girls are probably getting it drilled on a daily basis, they have to perform top-notch all year - they can't afford a bad skate.

Yep, and that's the difference b/w the US and Russian skaters. The Russian girls don't have the luxury of having a slow start to their season; they have to come out the gate at full speed otherwise someone else will pass them by. The level of competition in Russia is why they're so consistent and competitive. If they want to make it out of Russia they have to be! Unlike in the US where we can have the same holdovers medaling at nationals year after year despite not making any kind of waves internationally. There aren't enough killers coming up in the ranks...I'm talking skaters with both the skill and competitive mindset to win. Russia has too many killers in their ranks which is why their 5th and 6th rank skaters can beat the US #1 with no issue (I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell Gracie should have lost to Liza T and Alena...people say "it's early" but you know what? No. That's embarrassing.)

As I said a while ago, I'm just glad I love all of the Russian skaters otherwise this would be a really miserable next couple of years of figure skating for me. :sarcasm:

 

[humbaba]

...people say "it's early" but you know what? No. That's embarrassing.)

So what have you got to be embarrassed about? Seriously, this is a question I've been ruminating over for a while. Why do fans feel we have a right to impose expectations on skaters? As far as I know, the US is not a country that invests huge sums of public funds into its figure skating program. It's the skater who invests his or her time, sweat and labor into the sport. It's the skater and his or her family who bear the burden of financing a competitive career.

I want American skaters to do well and to fulfill their potential. But I want it for them, not for me. The same goes for skaters from other countries whose careers I follow. I don't feel angry or disgusted at any skater who doesn't place as well as I wished they would or thought they could. That would be both presumptuous and unkind. I'm sick of the petulance and hostility directed at the US ladies because they haven't produced the results fans crave. It really is their journey. We're just watching.

On a happier note, it's great to see the love for Mariah Bell. She's one of my favorites.

 

[Mrs. P]

So what have you got to be embarrassed about? Seriously, this is a question I've been ruminating over for a while. Why do fans feel we have a right to impose expectations on skaters? As far as I know, the US is not a country that invests huge sums of public funds into its figure skating program. It's the skater who invests his or her time, sweat and labor into the sport. It's the skater and his or her family who bear the burden of financing a competitive career.

I want American skaters to do well and to fulfill their potential. But I want it for them, not for me. The same goes for skaters from other countries whose careers I follow. I don't feel angry or disgusted at any skater who doesn't place as well as I wished they would or thought they could. That would be both presumptuous and unkind. I'm sick of the petulance and hostility directed at the US ladies because they haven't produced the results fans crave. It really is their journey. We're just watching.

On a happier note, it's great to see the love for Mariah Bell. She's one of my favorites.

You make some great points here. The reason Russia is able to have a slew of ladies on the ready is because they have the infrastructure to do so (i.e. government money). USFSA does not have such funding and they also have a broader mission.

I can imagine it's frustrating for fans to see the U.S. Ladies go through such a drought especially after such an unprecedented streak of success in the past including, of course, the success of the likes of Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen.

But droughts and Valleys happen. It happens to the best of programs. Sure Russia is winning many of the competitions now, but it was only five years ago when Russia only had one spot at Worlds and the ladies field was so depleted that Alena Leonova competed at Jr. Worlds AND Worlds. Or Midori Ito came back to compete in 1996 after Japan fared so poorly after her (and Yuka Sato's) retirement? It would be 13 years from Yuka Sato's WC win in 1994 before there was another Japanese ladies skater would be on the podium. Of course since then Japan has had someone on both World and Olympic podiums since then. But again it came after a pretty long valley/drought.

 

[yyyskate]

So what have you got to be embarrassed about? Seriously, this is a question I've been ruminating over for a while. Why do fans feel we have a right to impose expectations on skaters? As far as I know, the US is not a country that invests huge sums of public funds into its figure skating program. It's the skater who invests his or her time, sweat and labor into the sport. It's the skater and his or her family who bear the burden of financing a competitive career.

I want American skaters to do well and to fulfill their potential. But I want it for them, not for me. The same goes for skaters from other countries whose careers I follow. I don't feel angry or disgusted at any skater who doesn't place as well as I wished they would or thought they could. That would be both presumptuous and unkind. I'm sick of the petulance and hostility directed at the US ladies because they haven't produced the results fans crave. It really is their journey. We're just watching.

On a happier note, it's great to see the love for Mariah Bell. She's one of my favorites.

So glad to read your post, absolutely agree with you and I like Mariah as well.

 

[kwanatic]

So what have you got to be embarrassed about? Seriously, this is a question I've been ruminating over for a while. Why do fans feel we have a right to impose expectations on skaters? As far as I know, the US is not a country that invests huge sums of public funds into its figure skating program. It's the skater who invests his or her time, sweat and labor into the sport. It's the skater and his or her family who bear the burden of financing a competitive career.

I want American skaters to do well and to fulfill their potential. But I want it for them, not for me. The same goes for skaters from other countries whose careers I follow. I don't feel angry or disgusted at any skater who doesn't place as well as I wished they would or thought they could. That would be both presumptuous and unkind. I'm sick of the petulance and hostility directed at the US ladies because they haven't produced the results fans crave. It really is their journey. We're just watching.

On a happier note, it's great to see the love for Mariah Bell. She's one of my favorites.

Personally, I'm not embarrassed...but if I were Gracie, I would be embarrassed. I'm a lot harder on Gracie than other skaters simply b/c she's the US champion/4th at the Olys/5th at worlds. IMO, that means she has to be held to a higher standard. As the US champion, Gracie represents the best the US has...and the fact that the best skater in the US was beaten by two skaters who didn't even make it the Olympics or worlds last year is not a good sign.

As fans we do have the right to impose expectations on skaters...or any other person/team that is labeled as a champion. That's the burden of being a champion; you have to bear the expectation of being the best. Some people can't handle that. Gracie didn't live up to that champion label when she finished behind Liza T and Alena. Maybe I'm being too harsh on her but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the US champion, especially a US champion with Gracie's talent, to have won a Senior B event against Russia's #5 and #6 ranked skaters. JMO.


Re: Mariah Bell...I totally love her.

 

[yyyskate]

^^ Gracie earned her US champion fair and square, and if she is not good enough, she will not be any champion pretty soon. and before that, please pay her due respect. Gracie and her team's responsibility is to do the best they could, not please you. And your anguish/bash towards Gracie will NOT help her in anyway. If you really care about her, why dont you really study Gracie's program and try to give her constructive suggestions.

 

[Selene]

Anyone who was surprised that Gracie lost to Alena and Liza hasn't paid attention to her career. She has never won an international event at the senior level. I don't think she has the mental strength or physical tools to be a champion. Compare her to Russia's skaters and she pales in comparison. She doesn't have their competitive mindset. She doesn't have their jump consistency or jump quality. She doesn't feel her music or project to the audience. Her programs are forgettable pretty princess numbers. There is absolutely nothing about her skating that stands out. Rather than propping her up as the #1 US skater (with undeserved PCS,) the USFSA would be be better off investing their resources in Polina and other future prospects rather than hoping that Gracie and the other holdovers that haven't produced at the international level miraculously improve.

 

[Mrs. P]

I have no idea why the USFSA is propping her up as their #1 girl.

They're not propping her up as #1. She currently is No. 1. Because she won U.S. Nationals by a fair margin. Because she placed the highest out of all the U.S. Ladies at Olympics and Worlds.

When Polina starts beat Gracie at competitions, and more importantly, at Nationals, then she can be #1.

Sure it's up for debate whether Gracie is living up to her status as a champion, but as it stands she's still No. 1 until future results dictate otherwise.

The US ladies are going nowhere fast if she is the best we have. The USFSA would be be better off investing their resources in Polina and other future prospects rather than hoping that Gracie and the other holdovers that haven't produced at the international level miraculously improve.

Polina has the same amount of GP events as Gracie. She got a senior B event like Gracie. She also has top tier envelope funding like Gracie. What else should USFSA do for Polina as far as resources go?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Personally, I'm not embarrassed...but if I were Gracie, I would be embarrassed. I'm a lot harder on Gracie than other skaters simply b/c she's the US champion/4th at the Olys/5th at worlds. IMO, that means she has to be held to a higher standard. As the US champion, Gracie represents the best the US has...and the fact that the best skater in the US was beaten by two skaters who didn't even make it the Olympics or worlds last year is not a good sign.

As fans we do have the right to impose expectations on skaters...or any other person/team that is labeled as a champion. That's the burden of being a champion; you have to bear the expectation of being the best. Some people can't handle that. Gracie didn't live up to that champion label when she finished behind Liza T and Alena. Maybe I'm being too harsh on her but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the US champion, especially a US champion with Gracie's talent, to have won a Senior B event against Russia's #5 and #6 ranked skaters. JMO.


Re: Mariah Bell...I totally love her.

This is a bit of undue pressure. At the moment Miyahara and Murakami represent the best Japan has and neither is exactly top tier (although Miyahara had a strong JO skate, even with some URs overlooked).

Not to be an I told you so, but I had said that so many people had a misplaced belief that Gold is without a doubt US #1. It's becoming more apparent that Edmunds is in better shape at this point. One thing I didn't expect though was Wagner to be nailed with so many URs at Japan Open but I'm not hitting the panic button for Gold or Wagner quite yet. Although it was foolish for anyone to think Gold was a solid, indisputable #1 given a) her Worlds 2014 and b) Edmunds, and c) her 3-3 becoming inconsistent. Obviously it's early season but Gold better shape up.

 

[starlight97]

No matter how impolite and rude and almost hateful some of the posts here are towards Gracie:

To some extend they all hold a spark of truth but I think it's scary how some skating fans rip skaters apart because they "do not live up to expectations/ status".

I also think that her programs are forgettable and that she lacks the mindset others have but like it has been said- She is the USA's #1 and RIGHTLY so. She placed highest at Nationals. She placed highest in Sochi (1 place away from a medal....where did Polina place again?), she placed highest at worlds.
Edmunds is promising but not there yet. No offense but if one thinks Gracie's programs are forgettable. .. what one has to think of Edmund's programs then
Grace is there but lacks some things that the Russians don't, yes, but writing her off and making all she has done appear as nothing is repectless.
Let's see what this season brings. I wish all the US ladies the best of luck.

 

[Selene]

Polina beat Gracie in the FS at Worlds, and it is only a matter of time until Polina surpasses Gracie. Polina is much more consistent and better technically. Polina has been nailing both of her 3-3 combos, whereas Gracie's jumps are tanking. She cannot hit a 3-3 right now and her 2A-3T is a shadow of what it used to be. She was lucky to avoid a few UR calls at Nebelhorn, imo. Given their current form, I don't see any way Polina can lose to Gracie (if the judging is fair.)

No offense but if one thinks Gracie's programs are forgettable. .. what one has to think of Edmund's programs then

Polina's SP last season was incredible. She gave that program so much energy. Sadly, her team, like Gracie's, is pushing her into the pretty princess mold.

 

[samson]

After reading Kwanatic's fabulous blog (I think I've always known about it but for some reason it didn't click till now!) I finally figured out that Rachael Flatt choreographed Angela Wang's sp to Paint It Black. I know she's on track to another fabulous career, but based on what she made for herself last season and this sp, I selfishly hope Rachael becomes a choreographer full time when she graduates. While I never could fully jibe with Racheal's skating until her Firebird program back in 2012, I think her choreographic voice is wonderfully unique and exactly the sort of young woman's voice that is lacking in competitive figure skating right now.

And I say that at now offense to any choreographers present and working today, but Rachael brought something to Angela's program that had style, interest and a sex appeal that I think is in line with someone who's in their 20s. Last years sp by Rachael to me demonstrated a deep well of knowledge and understanding of the relationship between music and the human body I don't think I've ever seen from her before and that was in large part due to her own choreography. We should all be so lucky to see more American ladies skate to Rachael Flatt originals.

 

[SimplyAFan]

After reading Kwanatic's fabulous blog (I think I've always known about it but for some reason it didn't click till now!) I finally figured out that Rachael Flatt choreographed Angela Wang's sp to Paint It Black. I know she's on track to another fabulous career, but based on what she made for herself last season and this sp, I selfishly hope Rachael becomes a choreographer full time when she graduates. While I never could fully jibe with Racheal's skating until her Firebird program back in 2012, I think her choreographic voice is wonderfully unique and exactly the sort of young woman's voice that is lacking in competitive figure skating right now.

And I say that at now offense to any choreographers present and working today, but Rachael brought something to Angela's program that had style, interest and a sex appeal that I think is in line with someone who's in their 20s. Last years sp by Rachael to me demonstrated a deep well of knowledge and understanding of the relationship between music and the human body I don't think I've ever seen from her before and that was in large part due to her own choreography. We should all be so lucky to see more American ladies skate to Rachael Flatt originals.

Agreed. I like Angela's program. I also like Adam Rippon's choreography. With Rohene Ward's amazing programs being skated by multiple skaters, I'm thinking a shift toward younger choreographers might bring something fresh to the skating world. It might help break the princess stereotype.

 

[SimplyAFan]

While everyone is in here taking about Gracie, Polina, and Ashley what worries me most is skaters like Amber Glenn. She has the technical ability to compete with the best but she hasn't been able to put together one good program so far this season. Even if she didn't beat the Russian ladies, I was hoping she would at least beat her personal best score which, correct me if I'm wrong, she hasn't done. USFSA needs to start looking at skaters at the novice level and prepare them for competing internationally as juniors so they have the experience ands resources to be competitive. For example, Polina Edmunds didn't compete internationally until after she had won the junior national title. Compared to the Russians who are the same age, she has relatively no experience. Which puts her at a disadvantage.