Sasha Cohen was breathtaking

soogar said:

See , and I think the real Kwan and her family are greedy people and are only out to make a buck. Thus Michelle's carefully maintained image since she's been in the public eye since she was 12. Plus Michelle started making money in this sport since she was 12. Sasha may be from a privileged background (as are a great majority of the competitors) but I think Michelle's support from the USFS more than makes up for that advantage.

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What is it about the Kwans that make you think they are greedy? Are you saying that Michelle's real persona is not what it seems? What has she done to make you think this? Has Michelle received a disproportionate amount of support from the USFS than other skaters who have skated the same amount time and at th same high level? If so, how do you know this to be fact? Before she started getting endorsments and USFS support her family really had to struggle for her to train which IMO put her at more of a disadvantage than skaters who did not have such a struggle. Therefore I have more admiration for her for carrying on during adversity. Also I don't think she had as much natural physical talent as Sasha as in flexibility and body type. Again an obstacle she was able to overcome and compensate for. This too I find admirable. Anxious to hear your answers to my questions.

Better Word

Piel,I think a better word would be self absorbed instead of spoiled brat. The attitude of its all about me and what I get out of it instead of its about the sport and what I can give back. JMO. think you have every right to give an opinion and how you percieve Sasha and its not bashing. We have a poster here whos hate and vileness oozes through the screen about Michelle and I ignore that poster at all costs. Give your opinion. Most posters are giving their perception of the skaters as they have watced them and read and listened to their interviews. Thats how we form an opinion.

Piel said:

Spoiled yes, brat no. IMO you can be one without the other. To me a brat is someone who is rude, bullying, mean spirited, and annoying. I don't think Sasha is any of those things. To bash is to attack. I have not attacked her. I have stated my opinion of her personality. Now if we are not allowed to voice negative comments then what point is there in having a discussion? Someone needs to explain why nothing negative can be said about Sasha, because negative comments are allowed about other skaters all over this board. They are not being stated as opinion either but as flat out statements as if they are fact....why is a difference being made?

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I understand where you're coming from.

BUT...

I could just as easily post exactly what you just said, instead substituting Michelle's name for Sasha's.

kyla2 said:

I think those of you who feel nothing when Sasha skates need to look inside yourselves and ask why you can't appreciate the type of artistic talent, commitment, hard work, and sheer ability it takes to do what she does out there on the ice. There isn't a skater out there I can't appreciate. But Sasha has a unique, world class and rare presentation style that isn't just about extension. She doesn't leave me cold, she leaves me feeling greatful that she is out there. The person who said they will miss Sasha and Michelle when they leave the field isn't just kidding. There is no one their equal coming up yet. The same can be said of Irina, Shiz and Fumie.

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I don't think it's necessary for anyone to look inside themselves for answers. Why should they do that? Is this therapy or something? Because someone's skating leaves you cold doesn't mean you don't appreciate all they've done to get there? Personally, I liked the revamped LP of Sasha's. Personally, her skating does absolutely nothing for me in the least. It doesn't warm me up, make me tingle, make me go "wow", or even draw me in. However, it does give me the appreciation that we do have someone who can skate in the top tier with Irina and others.

Let me try to explain this. Sasha's spirals do not impress me. While thousands of people say they are the best, etc., I don't like them at all. It's my opinion. I'm entitled to it. Her spirals leave me cold, blah, whatever. And no, I'm not going to look inside myself to see if I'm missing any "warm" ingredients. It's very simple to me. Her leg is stuck to the rafters. Her chest is too close to the ice and I don't find the position all that beautiful. Now to others, it is. It's a matter of taste and preference, not warm vs cold. I do, however, miss Sasha's headless spin which I absolutely love to watch her do. I'm always dizzy when she does it, but she isn't doing it this year at all. And that saddens me in a way.

Her skating leaves me glad it's over not cold. I don't see the relationship between her and her music. I also feel the same way about Irina's LP this year. It just does absolutely nothing for me. While I was excited to hear that Sasha was using R&J this year, I have been disappointed in her program until Saturday night. Am I in awe of her abilities? No but I respect her hard work and her ability to put it out there.

I, too, will be sad when Cohen and Kwan retire because I don't see anyone in the wings waiting to jump into their spots and fill their fans' hearts like these two have done over the years. I think the sport will lose a lot of fans when these two are gone.

Red Dog said:

I understand where you're coming from.

BUT...

I could just as easily post exactly what you just said, instead substituting Michelle's name for Sasha's.

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The difference is that it wouldn't be true if you substituted Michelle's name.

new_europe2006 said:

The difference is that it wouldn't be true if you substituted Michelle's name.

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Actually, I beg to differ. How many times has a poster been jumped on for saying non-glowing things about MK? I lost count of that years ago.

OK Children

Now we play tit for tat. This isnt about Kwan. This is an opinion about Sasha from Piel and she is entitled to post it. Lets not act like children in our responses.

Why can't the people who don't care for Sasha or find her to be a spoiled brat stay the heck off this thread!!! Didn't you read the thread title "Sasha was breathtaking." I get so sick of seeing every thread about Sasha or any other skater that's not the Kween, being hijacked by Kwan's fans. Kwan is great. Kwan is graceful, Kwan is best, yada, yada yada the sun rises and sets on Kwan so freakin what. That's your opinion, let us who enjoyed Sasha's skating enjoy it. And please take your hate and negativity elsewhere.

Back on topic: I thought Sasha had an inspiring performance. I love the new music cuts and choregraphy. I hope she's even better at the Olympics! GO SASHA!

For one thing this is supposed to be for fun it is not the transcript to a court document. Threads get OT. I think some people neeed to develope a sense of humor. Kwan was brought in as a joke to something Millie said. Millie took it in the spirit it was intended but someone else had to get p***** off because I said something that wasn't all moonlight and roses about Sasha. Again, this is supposed to be fun....don't you guys ever watch SNL or anything where celebrities are ridiculed? These gals are skaters...celebrity-athletes. They are fair target for criticism and poking fun at. We are not their parents, we are allowed not to like them or to even make a joke about them.

Piel said:

Also I don't think she had as much natural physical talent as Sasha as in flexibility and body type. Again an obstacle she was able to overcome and compensate for. This too I find admirable. Anxious to hear your answers to my questions.

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Have you seen Michelle's Salome? She was awesome when she was 16. That was the most complete program I ever saw Michelle skate so I know she has it in her. Every movement had meaning. I know she can do it so I guess that is why I got a bit disappointed in her later years.
Yes, Sasha has flexibility but it is something you have to work at to maintain and that is something Sasha does all the time or she would loose it. What I think Sasha has that is natural is her timing and the ability to take advantage of every note and use it to her advantage. If her sister is into music, she has probably been around classical music all her life and it has tuned her ear to really hear music.
Michelle has a natural talent to get into a zone , not worry about what is going on around her in competitions where she doesn't feel pressure. If she could do that at the Olympics she would have 2 Gold medals right now.

I too watched it live (and some past performances too), and I was not impressed (lack of connection with the audience) but she skated well enough to win. In the practices she did not do any jumps (or hardly any) but skated around and talked to John Nicks many times. I could not hear what they talked about from where I was (just 20 feet away). She may have decided to avoid the jumps if she was not feeling well. She did not acknowledge the audience when her music ended, and she continued to skate as if the music was never there. During the competition it was her gold to lose. IMO she would have won just for showing up and skating the entire routine, but she did much more than that, and skated a decent program.

In 2000 I was awed by Sasha's flexibility, positions and lines. Over the years they have not wowed me the same way because of her other weaknesses (not so deep edges, lack of power in her skating, and the wobbly jumps). She scores well with the international judges, however, and she has a realistic chance of winning the OGM. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about Michelle, whom I consider to be a better skater and a better competitor. It is a matter of luck. For some skaters the time is just right when it comes to the Olympics and right now that seems to be the case with Sasha.

As far as hard work is concerned, I believe that all skaters work extremely hard and they all deserve to score well, if they skate well. May the lady that skates the best in Turin win the OGM.

Vash

Vash01 Just how does a skater connect with the audience? What do you see that lets you make that statement? From what I have been reading she did a wonderful job how is this wrong? People that have not cared for her skating before has said how beautiful she skated. Now you say she didn't connect I just do't get it. What more does the girl have to do??

cutiepatutie said:

Vash01 Just how does a skater connect with the audience? What do you see that lets you make that statement? From what I have been reading she did a wonderful job how is this wrong? People that have not cared for her skating before has said how beautiful she skated. Now you say she didn't connect I just do't get it. What more does the girl have to do??

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There is nothing more Sasha could do. This is as much a matter of personal taste as what an athlete brings to the rink. For me, Sasha has rarely connected to the music she skates to. The same program to you may be inspiring. Different strokes as they say

How about we just stop comparing Sasha to Michelle and vice versa, who you like better, etc and just say congrats Sasha for winning? This arguing just goes around in circles and it does no on eany good. Some people will always like Sasha, some people will always like Michelle...it's not gonna change!

So I end this with: Congrats, Sasha!

bronxgirl said:

There is nothing more Sasha could do. This is as much a matter of personal taste as what an athlete brings to the rink. For me, Sasha has rarely connected to the music she skates to. The same program to you may be inspiring. Different strokes as they say

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I have to agree. Sasha for me is not musical. She uses it for her tricks - not for her flow. When there are swells in the music you can be sure the extensions will appear. Quite pleasing though but not much else, imo. And Roti's R&J is just too sugary for my taste. Give me Prokofiev or even Tschaikowsky. Roti's is by the numbers, but non serious music lovers will go for it.

Joe

Enero said:

Why can't the people who don't care for Sasha or find her to be a spoiled brat stay the heck off this thread!!! Didn't you read the thread title "Sasha was breathtaking." I get so sick of seeing every thread about Sasha or any other skater that's not the Kween, being hijacked by Kwan's fans. Kwan is great. Kwan is graceful, Kwan is best, yada, yada yada the sun rises and sets on Kwan so freakin what. That's your opinion, let us who enjoyed Sasha's skating enjoy it. And please take your hate and negativity elsewhere.

Back on topic: I thought Sasha had an inspiring performance. I love the new music cuts and choregraphy. I hope she's even better at the Olympics! GO SASHA!

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What's wrong with not finding Sasha's program breathtaking, or magnificient or inspiring? That's not hateful at all. I find her program good. Good isn't bad. Good is good. Goodness knows the sun doesn't rise and set on just one person. I looked outside this morning and the sun rose on me.:yes: So people aren't inspired, out of breath or any of those other things with Sasha's program. Frankly there were plenty of programs at Nationals that did absolutely nothing for me and plenty that did. Sasha's program was good. She won. Yeah!

Vash01 said:

I too watched it live (and some past performances too), and I was not impressed (lack of connection with the audience) but she skated well enough to win. In the practices she did not do any jumps (or hardly any) but skated around and talked to John Nicks many times. I could not hear what they talked about from where I was (just 20 feet away). She may have decided to avoid the jumps if she was not feeling well. She did not acknowledge the audience when her music ended, and she continued to skate as if the music was never there. During the competition it was her gold to lose. IMO she would have won just for showing up and skating the entire routine, but she did much more than that, and skated a decent program.

In 2000 I was awed by Sasha's flexibility, positions and lines. Over the years they have not wowed me the same way because of her other weaknesses (not so deep edges, lack of power in her skating, and the wobbly jumps). She scores well with the international judges, however, and she has a realistic chance of winning the OGM. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about Michelle, whom I consider to be a better skater and a better competitor. It is a matter of luck. For some skaters the time is just right when it comes to the Olympics and right now that seems to be the case with Sasha.

As far as hard work is concerned, I believe that all skaters work extremely hard and they all deserve to score well, if they skate well. May the lady that skates the best in Turin win the OGM.

Vash

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I forgot to say that not only do I appreciate your post because you were there, but also because I know of your knowledge of skating and you kept your comments to Sasha's skating and the effect or lackthereof it had on you.

Good going Vash. And as Scott Hamilton once said, "Sometimes you don't win when you should have. Sometimes you win when you shouldn't have. It's a judged sport. So be grateful for every win and accept it with grace." Sasha didn't have any real competition, IMO, but she skated well enough and I thought she accepted her National Championship with grace.

Rgirl

Joesitz said:

I have to agree. Sasha for me is not musical. She uses it for her tricks - not for her flow. When there are swells in the music you can be sure the extensions will appear. Quite pleasing though but not much else, imo. And Roti's R&J is just too sugary for my taste. Give me Prokofiev or even Tschaikowsky. Roti's is by the numbers, but non serious music lovers will go for it.
Joe

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Joe, I agree with you about preferring the Prokofiev (I'm not crazy about the Tchaikovsky) but for me Sasha is one of the most musical skaters I've seen. And this comes from seeing her skate live four times. While I think she uses some of the highlights in the music to accentuate the highlights in her skating--and what's wrong with that?--for me, she definitely uses it for flow. The problem, IMO, is that she doesn't get down into her knees enough and use her edging to achieve the flow that skaters such as Shizza and Fumie have, to name just two examples.

And while Nino Rota's score is generic and basically bland movie music--at least it's not that Christopher Columbus movie music some skater or team seems to use every year, blech!--I think David Wilson got the very best possible out of Rota's score with the new cuts. Plus sometimes, maybe a lot of times, in skating, simpler music is an asset for the skater. I think especially with the COP, where skaters are doing six positions in one combination spin and packing their programs with a lot of other elements, too much complexity in the music can be a liability for both the skater and the judges. JMO.

However, I'm still waiting for the day when a great singles skater does a great program to Prokofiev's great "Romeo and Juliet" score.

Rgirl

BTW, congrats also to all you lucky ducks who got to see USN '06 LIVE!

Rgirl said:

However I'm still waiting for the day when a great singles skater does a great program to Prokofiev's great "Romeo and Juliet" score.

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I forgot that I've already seen a great skater do a great program to Prokofiev's "Romeo & Juliet." Back in the day when they had the Canadian Open (maybe they still do) Kurt Browning used Prokofiev's "R&J" in a program he choreographed himself based on the character Mercutio.

This would have been around 1996 or '97, and it is high on my top 10 list of best singles programs I've seen so far. There was a nice influence of ballet but also off-center movements that made the choreographic parts of the program exciting. Kurt also had all his jumps, except perhaps the 3Axel, which I'm sure he could do but just not reliably.

My point is that Kurt's "Mercutio" was one of the best integrations of music, skating elements, dance moves, choreography, jumps, and a superb performance by a great skater. So I have half of my dream with Kurt Browning's "Mercutio." Now I'd just like to see a ladies skater do a program as great as Kurt's was to Prokofiev's "R&J."

Rgirl

P.S. During the GPS and GPF I thought what Totmianina & Marinin did with Nino Rota's score by having the great Russian violinist who's worked with Plushenko, and whose name escapes me, play a fantasy based on Rota's score over the music made Rota's "R&J" much more interesting and much more appropriate for a pairs team of T&M's level. Whoever came up with the idea, good thinking!

Anyone who personally attacks our beloved Piel needs a virtual butt kick! :sheesh: