Which Scoring system is your preference? Pro and Cons

they both had good qualities and both have very bad qualites.
which i prefer--i think 6'0's we got to know the skaters a bit more through their presentation of music and skating.
now all of it is the same.
under 6.0's we knew they cheated but couldn't figure out how, now we know how. under 6.0's we believed the federation when stated say (communist countries cheated for communist skaters) and U.S. didn't cheat or favor their skaters. now we know different the U.s cheated for their Own skaters They wanted to win and the ones they didn't they left hang-like caroline zhang, michelle kwan, julie lynn holmes. they told countries to look their mistakes but overlook sasha, tara's, sarah's, peggy, dorothy, nancy-who ur all her jumps
(at least it appeared to)
but mostly the artistry is missing from the cop, and they still cheat by using goes which they did under 6.0's, so they changed the score but kept how they cheated
so in other words nothing really change and now we know the us federation lied to us about not cheating for certain u.s. skaters unlike before.
sorry about this -but i call it like i see it.
yes they cheated a bit for mirai,rachel, ashley, johnny evan , janet,(she was a beatiful skater,)
to me beauty if something you know when you see it, sasha beauty is in the postitions michelle beauty is in the presentation.
like a painting you know it when you see . you don't say the painting is beautiful because of lines, you say it helpis but in the overall presentation of the painting of musich
you can't quantify beauty (artistry) which is what is happening under cop-so everything looks the same.
under cop we see you change rules to favor the skaters you want to win, which is what happened under 6.0-so in essence you cheated to favor/cheat for that skater so that skater would win.you rig it under both for the one you wanted to win and let others hang -have wishful thinking.
end of thinking for now.

^ It is really quite bizarre to believe that the USFSA cheated against Michelle Kwan to hold her down in international competitions.

janetfan said:

BTW, who else has ended an LP with a 3x3 the way LuLu did in "Butterfly Lovers"?
Maybe Midori ?

Did LuLu's late 3x3 help her edge out Irina for the Bronze? :think:

Did Tara's late jumps help her edge out Michelle? :think:

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LuLu didn't have a 3-3, unfortunately. Her attempt was very badly underrotated. I think she was just going for a 3-2 and got overexcited and overrotated.

Tara's late jumps deservedly did win her Gold, though.

Blades of Passion said:

LuLu didn't have a 3-3, unfortunately. Her attempt was very badly underrotated. I think she was just going for a 3-2 and got overexcited and overrotated.

Tara's late jumps deservedly did win her Gold, though.

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3x3 or 3x2 - it was still very late in the program.

Mathman said:

^ It is really quite bizarre to believe that the USFSA cheated against Michelle Kwan to hold her down in international competitions.

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Yes, Math--I don't understand much about judging, but the one thing I'm pretty sure of is that the USFSA knew with Michelle that they had a once-in-a-generation skater, and they'd better treasure her. Thank goodness for that! I recently reread a bit of that Christine Brennan book detailing the 1998 Olympics and its aftermath, and it pointed out that the Federation could always count on the Kwans (parents and child) to show up when needed, comply with requests, and so on, whereas the Lipinskis never "gave back." So the relationship on all levels was always good and mutually beneficial. Michelle and her family were always good citizens of Skateland and were well treated as far as I can tell.

Olympia said:

Yes, Math--I don't understand much about judging, but the one thing I'm pretty sure of is that the USFSA knew with Michelle that they had a once-in-a-generation skater, and they'd better treasure her. Thank goodness for that! I recently reread a bit of that Christine Brennan book detailing the 1998 Olympics and its aftermath, and it pointed out that the Federation could always count on the Kwans (parents and child) to show up when needed, comply with requests, and so on, whereas the Lipinskis never "gave back." So the relationship on all levels was always good and mutually beneficial. Michelle and her family were always good citizens of Skateland and were well treated as far as I can tell.

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It should be noted that US Skating - in the making of "RISE" - asked Michelle along with the OC's that followed the '61 air tragedy to be narrators. They could have asked Tara or Sarah - both OC's - but asked Michelle instead. I think this shows how US Skating feels about Michelle.

You know, I spotted that too, and it made me realize the regard they feel for Michelle. She is kind of a de facto Olympic champion for the U.S., much in the way that Kurt seems to be for Canada. And she wears it well!

Olympia said:

I recently reread a bit of that Christine Brennan book detailing the 1998 Olympics and its aftermath, and it pointed out that the Federation could always count on the Kwans (parents and child) to show up when needed, comply with requests, and so on, whereas the Lipinskis never "gave back."

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Great book! I read it to my mom (age 92) after her sight failed.

Like all books, though, it has a point of view. Brennan's was not favorably disposed to Tara and her mother.

I always wondered in Christine Brennan ended up mad at Michelle for spoiling the ending of her perfect book on Olympic struggles and glorious triumph -- oh, wait. (Maybe that's why she called it The Edge of Glory.)

The great thing though, Math, is that if one stuck around for the rest of Michelle's story, it had maybe even more glory in it than a straight-on win in 1998 would have given her, didn't it? If she'd gone through the cycle in the predictable way, winning National, Worlds, Olympics, out to endorsements and maybe a show and then college, she'd be almost a generic champ in the mold of Tenley, Carol, Peggy, Dorothy, Kristi. (Not that any of those esteemed ladies is dull or unoriginal!) But she found a path that will be very hard for anyone else to duplicate in the years to come.

I'm so glad your Mom liked that book. Brennan is a wonderful writer, isn't she? And clearly she loves skating. You're right, I should remember that everyone has a point of view. But whether Brennan was sufficiently objective about Tara and Pat Lipinski, I think she was pretty accurate about Michelle, from what I know as a totally uninformed outsider.

Olympia said:

...Tenley, Carol, Peggy, Dorothy, Kristi...

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Now I do feel old. I have seen all of those great champions perform live, the first four with the Ice Capades.

OT, but when I was a teenager, taking your girl friend to the ice capades was regarded as the classiest date in town (OK, I lived in a smallish town. )

Olympia said:

Brennan is a wonderful writer, isn't she?

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She is certainly, uh, easy to read.

^ As all good writers are.

Here's an exercise.

Here are two short programs from the mid-1990s from skaters with different strengths and weaknesses. They're not from the same competition, so there's no "right" or "wrong" answer as to who should score higher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWLwILP85fQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEBT9OLY3sE

Pretend you're a judge and that these are the first two programs in an international senior ladies' event. Try judging them by 6.0 criteria.

Watch them in either order, but if you're going to post your scoring thoughts please let us know which one was your first skater and which second.

What details to you take into consideration in establishing the technical base marks for each skater?
Be sure to take any required deductions.
What do you take into account in deciding on a presentation mark?

When you score the second skater, are you thinking about the result you want to achieve (placing her ahead of or behind the first skater) when you decide on your scores, or do you think about the numbers first and then decide whether you're happy with the resultant ranking?

Then, if you want to compare processes, go back and score both programs by IJS. Assume all the elements are level 1 unless you see reasons for a higher level.

Which process do you like better?

What a nice performance from Hanae Yokoya! She would clearly be placed ahead in 6.0 judging.

Zuzanna Szwed had better spins and better quality in the Double Axel and 3Sal, but she would still be placed behind in CoP judging (politics aside) because she completely screwed up her combination jump and only did an underrotated Triple Flip (would likely be called as << by most tech specialists, in fact) that went splat.

If they both skated clean I would still likely have Yokoya ahead on Performance/Interpretation, although I might have Szwed ahead overall because of the higher quality of some of the technical elements.