Is this move possible to do?

BravesSkateFan · Aug 28, 2011

I've always wondered if it would be possible for a singles skater to perform a spin in the charlotte position. I would basically be an upside-down I-spin, probably starting out as a camel and then transitioning to the charlotte position. Since I don't know the full mechanics of spins I don't know if this would actually be a feasible position.

Vash01 · Aug 28, 2011

It sounds like the pairs spin performed by Mishkutenok-Dmitriev, and a few other pairs since. She is almost in the charlotte position, but for a singles skater it would be extremely hard to do, since there is no support from another skater.

BravesSkateFan · Aug 28, 2011

Vash01 said:
It sounds like the pairs spin performed by Mishkutenok-Dmitriev, and a few other pairs since. She is almost in the charlotte position, but for a singles skater it would be extremely hard to do, since there is no support from another skater.

Yes, exactly. The pairs version is what first made me think of it. I think it would look pretty awesome if someone could manage to pull it off.

gkelly · Aug 28, 2011

I've never seen anyone do it. I have seen illusion spins that move through that position briefly, but I think it would be hard to hold if you got into it that way.

I wonder if it would work if a (thin and flexible) skater crouched down with the free foot behind the heel of the spinning foot head in front of the toe, grabbed the ankle of the skating foot, stayed in that folded-into-a-ball position for one or two revolutions to establish balance and centering, and then kept the upper body folded over but unfolded the free leg straight up behind her, gradually enough not to throw off her balance.

It probably wouldn't be very attractive on the way up. Maybe it wouldn't have to last too long.

mskater93 · Aug 29, 2011

I've seen something similar to what gkelly is describing - basically a back scratch spin with the skater folded in 1/2. Not attractive, but I am not a fan of the A frame position either (and neither are a lot of judges looking at some reactions at local competitions).

BackStage Barbie · Aug 29, 2011

If anybody could do it...it would be Alissa Czisny or Sasha Cohen.

kwanatic · Aug 29, 2011

I think it'd be a good question for a person who knows a good amount about physics, seeing as how that's the basis for a lot of skating moves anyway. My guess is no but I could be wrong. It just seems like with the large majority of the weight at the bottom, it might not be possible to keep the leg straight up without some kind of support; you'd have to be really strong to resist that outward pull and keep the leg straight. Centrifugal force dictates an outward force from the center of rotation and with nothing but a leg to maintain a center and nothing to pull in on to keep the rotation going, it seems like it'd be hard to spin like that. That's my basic physics knowledge guess anyway... :rolleye:

silverpond · Aug 29, 2011

Vash01 said:
It sounds like the pairs spin performed by Mishkutenok-Dmitriev, and a few other pairs since. She is almost in the charlotte position, but for a singles skater it would be extremely hard to do, since there is no support from another skater.

Precisely what I was thinking. I cannot see how this is physically possible. It would be unattractive, in my opinion. Just my two cents, of course.

BravesSkateFan · Aug 29, 2011

silverpond said:
Precisely what I was thinking. I cannot see how this is physically possible. It would be unattractive, in my opinion. Just my two cents, of course.

I think it would look good if the skater was in a perfect split with the body close to the skating leg (similar to this http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaz25/470803581/). But if they couldn't get into this position it would not be pretty at all

kwanatic · Aug 30, 2011

^^Gorgeous position...but I just don't think it's possible for someone to spin like that. Anybody know a physicist? Can you ask him/her if it's possible? :biggrin:

Mathman · Aug 30, 2011

Here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFMwy1wWQWI

doubleflutz · Aug 30, 2011

kwanatic said:
^^Gorgeous position...but I just don't think it's possible for someone to spin like that. Anybody know a physicist? Can you ask him/her if it's possible?

I've seen dancers spin in that position, but only with a partner and only en pointe, which thinking about it would make an enormous difference in how the spin was centered and balanced.

kwanatic · Sep 1, 2011

Mathman said:
Here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFMwy1wWQWI

LOL! Mathman, you're a hoot! :laugh:

BravesSkateFan · Sep 3, 2011

Mathman said:
Here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFMwy1wWQWI

LOL not exactly what I imagined.

blue dog · Sep 5, 2011

As demonstrated by these rhythmic gymnasts it is very possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhoZL9ycG4k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

BravesSkateFan · Sep 5, 2011

blue dog said:
As demonstrated by these rhythmic gymnasts it is very possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhoZL9ycG4k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I love team rhythmic! Its my favorite Olympic event after skating. I can't believe I didn't think of this originally.

brightphoton · Sep 5, 2011

blue dog said:
As demonstrated by these rhythmic gymnasts it is very possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhoZL9ycG4k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Oooh, those ribbons are twirly.

MoonlightSkater · Sep 5, 2011

blue dog said:
As demonstrated by these rhythmic gymnasts it is very possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhoZL9ycG4k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Not my favorite team routine ever. There was something very frantic about it.

I see your point about the turns. The centrifugal forces in skating are different than those in dance, though. It would be much, much harder to do that on skates.

Also, I'm willing to bet that every one of those gymnasts can easily reach a ridiculous oversplit, even when standing. They could probably do 210 degree Charlottes. That alone would make it much easier to reach the full split in arabesque, and the possibly necessary oversplit needed to counterbalance if their weight is off-center.

kwanatic · Sep 6, 2011

MoonlightSkater said:
I see your point about the turns. The centrifugal forces in skating are different than those in dance, though. It would be much, much harder to do that on skates.

Exactly. I mean, those girls only turned how many times, maybe twice? And rather slowly at that. To do that on ice, going at speed doesn't seem possible. As the gymnast turn you can see that even they weren't capable of keeping their leg vertical; the leg started leaning out to the side as a result of the centrifugal pull. I do love rhythmic gymnastics thought! :biggrin:

leafygreens · Sep 6, 2011

This one gymnast does an upside down Bielmann. It's crazy. Not sure if this could be sustained on skates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys6je5-JxU0&feature=player_detailpage#t=85s

Is this move possible to do?

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