Stepanova & Bukin or Ilinykh & Zhiganshin?

Mao88 · Jan 30, 2015

Stepanova / Bukin are improving fast, while Ilinykh / Zhiganshin (despite the mistakes in the FD at Euro's) are starting to gel more and more as a partnership.

So which of the two partnerships will be the leading Russian ice dance couple during this quad, or will both be eclipsed by one of the other Russian teams?

Mattieu · Jan 30, 2015

Mao88 said:
Stepanova / Bukin are improving fast, while Ilinykh / Zhiganshin (despite the mistakes in the FD at Euro's) are starting to gel more and more as a partnership.

So which of the two partnerships will be the leading Russian ice dance couple during this quad?

S/B have been together for years, so their margin for improvement is much more limited then I/Z.

icedinn · Jan 30, 2015

Gotta give s/b props for what they accomplished at euro's. Very well deserved. I see them dominating starting next season but they need better material. Also Bukin is a better dancer and partner than Elena's. Second best to only Soloviev and he and Alexandra are evenly matched imo. Both are magnets to the eye. In my opinion of course.

elif · Jan 30, 2015

Stepanova is too weak. She needs to learn better glide, more effortless/soft skating, using her limbs to dancing.... List can go on... I liked their dance in nationals and in europeans.. But they need to fix those issues of her.

BlackPack · Jan 30, 2015

S&K look awkward on the ice. They just don't seem to have the power and speed that I&Z have, even though I'm sure they're fast. Stepanova seems to struggle to with intricate moves due to her posture and coordination. I think they are a team of limited talent, but that doesn't seal their fate as long as they have other goods.

I&Z deserve to be Russia's No 1 at this point. Their partnership has surpassed so many teams already. Good luck to them and hope they skate their best in Shanghai. Hopefully, they'll make it to the podium next year at Euros and Worlds.

uhh · Jan 30, 2015

They've skated against each other 3 times, and on the 2 occasions that both teams have been clean, I/Z came out on top by miles. S/B only won yesterday by 1 point with I/Z missing an entire element. It only looks like any sort of competition now because I/Z had a one off disaster day. And that's with Elena & Ruslan having 8 months together to Alex & Ivan's 8 years. If I/Z come back next season with a FD that's worthy of their skills instead of this years mess of one that was hastily cobbled together, I don't see it being a competition at all.

icedinn said:
Also Bukin is a better dancer and partner than Elena's. Second best to only Soloviev and he and Alexandra are evenly matched imo. Both are magnets to the eye.

I don't really see this - he is good, definitely the strength of the team with nice basics but wild & unrefined often. Ruslan is less showy, but he interprets music well, lovely knee action and smooth skating skills, although I find he needs to work on what he does with his upper body. They've both got a lot of areas to improve on. If we're getting into comparing the individual members of the teams, any area that Ruslan loses out to Ivan is more than made up by comparing Elena to Alex. Elena can perform any style, but Alex's emoting comes down to opening her mouth a lot, and she is stiff as a board, doesn't work her knees properly, and often breaks at the waist because her basic stroking isn't strong enough to pick up speed while maintaining good posture. They don't look matched at all to me - small height difference exacerbated by her stiffness means that they look just bad in hold.

On a side note, I've been shocked this season at how weak the Russian female ice dancers are (apart from Elena & Ekaterina when she comes back). The basic skating, posture, use of knees, edging ability is just gone. Is it because all the strong girls are staying in singles now?

Danja · Jan 30, 2015

I`ll be still waiting for BS

Neither SB nor IZ will substitute them for me, even if BS retire and one of these younger couples becomes №1 in Russia. Both partners in these couples, imho, don`t match each other very well: Bukin is too hot and expressive for Stepanova, and Ilinykh is too hot for Zhiganshin. And besides when I saw SB alive this year, they looked very slow and juniorish. Maybe they just had a bad day, but that`s what I saw, alas. Well, I think, SB may become more charismatic, as the time goes by, they`ve already improved their presentation a lot (as far as I can judge based by yesterday`s performance), but I highly doubt that Stepanova will start gliding much better.

elif · Jan 30, 2015

icedinn said:
Also Bukin is a better dancer and partner than Elena's. Second best to only Soloviev and he and Alexandra are evenly matched imo.

Ilinykh and Zhiganshin's individual skills closer to each other than Gilles/Poirier and Stepanova/Bukin. Peoples comparing Zhiganshin to Poirier and Bukin and says he is weaker. But completely ignoring Ilinykh's skills next to Stepanova or Gilles. :rolleye:

At least compare weaker skaters to each other (Zhiganshin, Gilles and Stepanova) :rolleye:

ragdoll · Jan 30, 2015

I believe in I/Z despite their mistakes in the free last night. For some reason S/B's free program doesn't appeal to me but it was a sheer joy to be there to see Bukin's smile on the podium when he got a medal. He looked so very happy.

tulosai · Jan 30, 2015

elif said:
Stepanova is too weak. She needs to learn better glide, more effortless/soft skating, using her limbs to dancing.... List can go on... I liked their dance in nationals and in europeans.. But they need to fix those issues of her.

This. I do like S/B and I am happy for them that they were able to seize their moment yesterday and take advantage of the situation. But unless she improves they are only going to be a high-tier-B team, not tier A. As someone else said, they were only able to beat I/Z by one point, with I/Z having a disaster program (for them) with 1 element wholly invalidated.

BlackPack said:
S&K look awkward on the ice. They just don't seem to have the power and speed that I&Z have, even though I'm sure they're fast. Stepanova seems to struggle to with intricate moves due to her posture and coordination. I think they are a team of limited talent, but that doesn't seal their fate as long as they have other goods.

I&Z deserve to be Russia's No 1 at this point. Their partnership has surpassed so many teams already. Good luck to them and hope they skate their best in Shanghai. Hopefully, they'll make it to the podium next year at Euros and Worlds.

I agree with all of this too, and I also agree S/B's fate is not sealed, but she in particular has to make improvements. I do think their twizzles are visually stunning and wonder if they could add other 'tricks' like that to make them more appealing, which seems to have worked for G/P (though Gilles has put in the work and improved like Stephnova needs to).

I agree that of the Russians currently competing, I/Z are number one.

Danja said:
I`ll be still waiting for BS

While I didn't agree with most of your post (Ruslan is plenty hot enough for Elena in my opinion :cheer:

) I do agree forgetting B/S in any conversation regarding Russia's number one is a mistake, at least until they either officially announce retirement or until we see them skate again and can properly evaluate where they are. This is a team with many years together and good international rep. Her posture drives me nuts, but if they come back healthy and strong, they are definitely in the mix.

Abraxis12345 · Jan 30, 2015

I think Stepanova and Bukin have a great free dance and it does a good job of showing off their lines and unison while minimizing her weaknesses. It is a much better vehicle for them than last year's FD. While I do think their PCS in the FD was quite generous given that their basics leave a lot to be desired, I can see why it went up compared to their SD. I also do think SB were given a bit of a push in the SD after Monko and Khaliavin botched the twizzles.

Jammers · Jan 30, 2015

This will probably be the only time S/B will ever make the podium at European's. Next year they will be Russian number 3 team when B/S come back.

bwayrose7 · Jan 30, 2015

I'm happy for S/B this year, but I see I/Z as the dominant team going forward. Looking at how much they've accomplished in a short span of time, with a fairly generic FD but one of the best SD's in the world, I think they can only improve. S/B are going to plateau.

They've skated against each other 3 times, and on the 2 occasions that both teams have been clean, I/Z came out on top by miles. S/B only won yesterday by 1 point with I/Z missing an entire element. It only looks like any sort of competition now because I/Z had a one off disaster day. And that's with Elena & Ruslan having 8 months together to Alex & Ivan's 8 years. If I/Z come back next season with a FD that's worthy of their skills instead of this years mess of one that was hastily cobbled together, I don't see it being a competition at all.

Exactly my thoughts, uhh. It took an entire major element being invalidated for S/B to even pull one point ahead. And I/Z has been quite consistent up through yesterday, and still finished barely off the podium. Unless B/S comes back with all cylinders firing, I think I/Z will remain Russian #1 for a while.

noidont · Jan 30, 2015

S/B's SD basically doesn't work. FD looked good for the first time yesterday when they skated full out. This team isn't very versatile it seems. I can't imagine them being good waltzers or latin dancers. I/Z and Y/M are capable of many dance tempos.

Irina89 · Jan 30, 2015

Yanovska & Mozgov

But out of this two, I/Z no doubt

Sandpiper · Jan 30, 2015

I/Z are stronger skaters: they skate closer together and gain speed more effortlessly. S/B are steadier and more innovative at the "other stuff": the lifts, the combination spin, the twizzles. But since it's ice dance, not mini-pairs, I/Z obviously remain Russian #1 and have a stronger case of being this in the future. However, it's difficult to predict what exactly will happen in the future, so I wouldn't write S/B off either.

From a personal enjoyment standpoint, it's not an either/or scenario. I like watching both teams.

And they both better pull their weight at Worlds if B/S don't come back...

elif · Jan 30, 2015

OK. Did I miss something? :laugh:

Bobrova/Soloviev - Russian number 1.
-Need to improve posture of Bobrova.
-Need to fix twizzles.
-Had to find better programs.

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin - Russian number 1 for now.
-Need to improve connection between partners.
-Need to add difficulty, more transition and holds into programs
-Need to fix lifts.
-Ilinykh's posture might be better (but considering state of russian dance ladies, I had to admit she is ballerina next to them:disapp

-Need better programs a lot.

Stepanova/Bukin -Russian number 2 for now
-Need to improve gliding of Stepanova and she nees to show more dancing skills. Had to learn how to use her limbs more effectively.
-Need more speed and better acceleration. Needs better knee work and effortless skating.
-Need to fix spacing between partners.
-Had to add more transition and holds (Stepanova remind me Lipnitskaia's junior years. Her every transition is same: leg extention:disapp

-Need to have better lifts.
-Had to have better ice coverage for twizzles

Monko/Khaliavin -russian number 3 for now
-Need to fix her posture.
-Need more effortless skating and better acceleration.
-Need better programs a lot.

Yavonasvkaya/Mozgov- Promising junior team.
-Need more soft skating from Anna
-Had to fix her posture
-Better speed
?

Sinitsina/Katsalapov - russian number 4th for now.
-Had to fix lifts.
-Had to fix edges of both partners
-Had to fix twizzles.
-Had to fix posture of Katsalapov and needs better skating skills from Sinitsina. More soft knee bend and effortless skating.
-Need to improve connection between partners and needs to have matching lines.
-Need to add more variety to transitions/holds and also had to balance responsibility of both partners.
-Need better programs.

Zahorski/Guerrero
-Need more speed and ice coverage.
-Had to fix lifts and other elements.

BlackPack · Jan 30, 2015

In the Euro threads, I read S&B's very cool twizzles got a level one because they were considered spins, not twizzles and not on the most difficult edges:scratch: I'm not 100% sure I got it right, but if that's really the case, the ISU is once again putting another nail on the decline-of-FS coffin by limiting creativity via stupid rules.

BlackPack · Jan 30, 2015

I still wouldn't count out Bobrova and Soloviev, and they have had a reputation for being hard-working and professional. I&Z and B&S may still dominate the Russian scene for a long time to come.

tulosai · Jan 30, 2015

BlackPack said:
In the Euro threads, I read S&B's very cool twizzles got a level one because they were considered spins, not twizzles and not on the most difficult edges:scratch: I'm not 100% sure I got it right, but if that's really the case, the ISU is once again putting another nail on the decline-of-FS coffin by limiting creativity via stupid rules.

I actually am pretty sure it was due to the entrance edge, which they have changed/fixed?

Stepanova & Bukin or Ilinykh & Zhiganshin?

Mao88

Mattieu

icedinn

wishing ksenia/kirill happiness 4ever

elif

BlackPack

uhh

Danja

elif

ragdoll

tulosai

Abraxis12345

Jammers

bwayrose7

noidont

Irina89

Sandpiper

elif

BlackPack

BlackPack

tulosai

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