Sasha working on quad for upcoming season

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 18, 2004

Everyone who works on quads lands them in practice!!

My own belief is that anyone who can do a proper sal chow can rotate in the air as much as there is innate ability to do so. Not everyone has that innate ability, and It's not a trick for everyone.

Joe

Lipinskifan19 · Jul 18, 2004

Oh Sasha, Sasha, Sasha.

I think some triples triples (not the 3 toe/ 3 toe) w/ her great presentation/artistry are more than good enough for her to win. She doesn't need that darned quad. I think it's great she want's to push the envelope technichally and try something new, but I really think it's unnecessar. I cannot see her landing a quad and a whole bunch of triples in the same program. I can only imagine how exhausting that would be.

icenut84 · Jul 18, 2004

I think Sasha could probably win with triples and a clean performance, and don't think she really needs a quad to win if she can skate cleanly. There is also the injury worry. However, I also understand why she's trying. One mistake at Worlds in her LP cost her the gold medal, and she saw Shizuka skate cleanly with a 3-3-2 and a 3-3. She also saw Michelle's performance, who also had one mistake and was placed ahead of her. Obviously Sasha wants to be ahead of them. And given Michelle's reputation for skating well in major competitions, Sasha needs to do something other than just try to skate cleanly - while a clean Sasha may be difficult to beat, I'm sure a clean Michelle can do it. If she wants to win, she probably wants to win decisively. How to do it? Well, one way is to increase her technical mark, maybe by doing something the others don't. She said she's working on 3-3s and the quad, right? And she said she'll see how they go. Maybe she sees the quad as a better prospect for her - maybe she has more success on it than the 3-3, maybe she's more confident on it (she seems to know the "secret" to landing it when she gets it right, from her journal). Maybe she wants to get into the record books (as she can't be the first woman to land the quad now, maybe she wants to be the first American woman). Maybe she's pursuing it because it will set her apart if she lands it. Maybe the fact that she can, and has, landed it in practice, makes her want to land it in competition too, which IMO is perfectly understandable. When you're training in hope of winning the world title, what's the point of working to accomplish something in practice and then not making any plans to try it in competition?

Vash01 · Jul 18, 2004

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Sasha was doing (or at least attempting) 3lutz-3toe in GP competitions in her first season with Tarasova, when she skated to the Rachmaninoff LP. Next season though it seemed she was only going for the 3lutz-2toe. Was it because she was making too many mistakes later in the program, as a result of the 3-3? In any case I think a 3-3 would come easily, but as someone pointed out, may be she wants to go in the record book by doing the quad in competitions. When she was being coached by John Nicks, she was determined to do the quad in competitions and her coach had to talk her out of it. Robin Wagner always encouraged Sarah to go for the most difficult jumps/combos, so I expect we will see more jump difficulty from Sasha. It may come at the cost of the choreography, but unfortunately jumps have become more important even in ladies FS. Sasha does have other things that set her apart though- spins, spiral, etc. I really think she can beat anybody with one 3-3 (other than 3t-3t) and a clean program.

Fossi · Jul 18, 2004

Sasha has only landed one 3/3 in her entire career, no quads, and has only skated a clean LP once.
I think she should focus on getting her triples consistent, then maybe a 3/3, and lastly the quad. But maybe she knows deep down that she can't skate two clean programs and a 3/3?
These are the days I miss Lipinski and Hughes. They had the presentation and the consistency with 3/3's to back it up when it counted.

gezando · Jul 18, 2004

Fossi said:
Sasha has only landed one 3/3 in her entire career,.

I think twice, you have to count the 3f/3t in GWG.

Ogre Mage · Jul 18, 2004

Joesitz said:
Everyone who works on quads lands them in practice!!
Joe

True.

I was specifically thinking though, of not "practice training at home rink" but "practice during the week of Nationals or Worlds." Hitting the jump in practice in front of all the other coaches and skaters would create a stir for sure.

thvudragon · Jul 18, 2004

gezando said:
I think twice, you have to count the 3f/3t in GWG.

That one doesn't count, it was badly two-footed.

TV

SkateFan4Life · Jul 18, 2004

At the risk of being a naysayer, I really have to question why in the world Sasha Cohen is spending time working on a quad. IMHO, what she really needs to do is learn how to skate all of her TRIPLES cleanly in her long programs. Sasha has developed an unfortunate pattern of skating a great short program and then blowing it in the long program with several miscues and/or falls. She simply HAS to learn to skate a clean, error-free long program if she expects to win major titles. There are simply too many other talented women - just as good as she is, quite frankly - many of whom are capable of skating clean long programs. The judges will only give her (and everyone else) so much leeway when it comes to making mistakes.

How many years now has Sasha been prematurely crowned the queen of American figure skating, only to fall short with a flawed long program?

She may learn the quad, and she may land it cleanly, but if she falls and/or flubs other triple jumps, she's not going to win the US, World, and/or Olympic titles.
Not unless all of the top women skate flawed programs, which probably will not happen.

It's one thing to win Skate America, Skate Canada and any of the other Grand Prix events - none of which involve the full complement of top-ranked skaters.
It's quite another thing to win Worlds and the Olympics, in which all of the top skaters are in the mix.

euterpe · Jul 19, 2004

Sasha has been called (by Peggy Fleming, probably her biggest fan) the best practice skater in history. She has been known to skate her FS clean as a whistle on practice ice, only to falter in performance.

She has landed clean 3/3s in practice, only to cut them back to 3/2s in performance. Even if Sasha manages a clean 4S in practice 80% of the time, that is no guarantee that she can do it in performance.

peachstatesk8er · Jul 19, 2004

euterpe said:
Even if Sasha manages a clean 4S in practice 80% of the time, that is no guarantee that she can do it in performance.

There's no guarantee anyone can do it, so I guess the future of skating is pretty bleak, eh?

Seriously, everyone gets so down on Sasha, but she's made steady, excellent progress in her placements over the past few seasons. I think people have gotten so used to seeing these meteoric rises to the top of the podium a la Lipinski or Baiul that they've forgotten that most skaters take years before they're National or World champions, if they ever get to that point and let's face it, most don't.

There isn't any skater out there that has skated a 100% completely "clean" (by Fans' definition; to skaters clean means simply no falls) LP every single time they compete, so I don't see the big hooha over Sasha being so "inconsistent". Seems to me she's doing pretty darn well on the national and international scenes!

Dee4707 · Jul 19, 2004

peachstatesk8er said:
There isn't any skater out there that has skated a 100% completely "clean" (by Fans' definition; to skaters clean means simply no falls) LP every single time they compete, so I don't see the big hooha over Sasha being so "inconsistent". Seems to me she's doing pretty darn well on the national and international scenes!

Peachstatesk8er, I agree wholeheartly. All the up and comers struggle and all the elite skaters have struggled. I always wonder why people are so quick to point the finger at Sasha. As much as I like her skating and support her as a fan I am not thrilled that she wants to perform the quad. I think quad = injury and I want to enjoy her skating for many, many more years. The one thing that I am hoping is that Robin sees Sasha's fire and has at least the SP be filled with spark and attitude.

Dee

chuckm · Jul 19, 2004

Maybe everyone's down on Cohen because of the constant hype. It isn't necessarily Sasha's fault. Before every championship, the media starts to trumpet Sasha as the next (*) Champion. They did it before Nationals and Worlds in both 2003 and 2004. The media had all but handed her the 2004 World championship after her good QR and brilliant SP.

Then again, Sasha's diary entries gives her detractors plenty of material to use against her. She tends to blame her losses on factors over which she has no control, like the Shingles at Nationals. And it is Sasha herself who said she was working on 3/3s and the quad midway through the 2003-2004 season, but we saw a watered-down Worlds FS instead of a difficulty-enhanced one.

soogar · Jul 19, 2004

Sasha's diary entries: Boy is she damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. Maybe Sasha should be like Kwan and not have any contact with the public until Nationals so that way she will be regarded as a saint. I respect Sasha, she puts herself out there for criticism and she has lived up to the hype. She is still competing and she competes well. She has posted decent results at Worlds, Nationals, Grand Prix events, Grand Prix final etc. Other skaters would have crumbled underneath the weight of all the expectations.

swannanoa54 · Jul 19, 2004

To quad or not to quad!

Sasha's diary entries: Boy is she damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. Maybe Sasha should be like Kwan and not have any contact with the public until Nationals so that way she will be regarded as a saint. I respect Sasha, she puts herself out there for criticism and she has lived up to the hype.

Soogar, Sasha's journal is wonderful. I really enjoy reading it whenever there is a new entry. However she has, in the past, blamed factors other than herself for some of her stranger falls.

Secondly, I respect all the skaters. They all put themselves out there for us to criticize each and every move they make. Sasha and Michelle both get criticized by the media and the fans. I think both of them need to work on more difficult 3/3s, more inbetweens, harder spins (for Kwan), and better edging (for Sasha which improved by the end of last season).

Unfortunately Sasha hasn't necessarily "lived up to the hype" because the "hype" has always crowned her champion and she hasn't achieved that yet. Do I believe she should be practicing a quad? No, because that's what caused her to lose an entire season due to a back injury.

Since Kwan seems to be preparing to skate in the GP Series, I don't think the statement about "no contact until Nationals" is so true anymore. And I don't think that makes Kwan a saint nor do I think writing everything in a journal makes you a target for every criticism that comes along.

If both of these outstanding skaters want to continue to compete, they both have to have programs that will stand up against the other competitors. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them all.

Vash01 · Jul 19, 2004

One of the reasons Sasha gets so much criticism is that the expectations (of others and may be herself too) of her were skyhigh when she appeared with a bang on the scene at USN 2000. She has simply gone through the learning process over the years, and has made steady progress.

There has been way too much emphasis on skating a clean long program. I can see that skating a clean SP would be important, as there are mandatory deductions. However, in the free skate, we often see the overall skating quality & choreography win over just a clean & simple performance with lots of triple jumps. IMO Sasha can win, with a small mistake, or even a fall, depending on how others skate. This year Shizuka's skate was unbelievable, but even that could have been beaten by Sasha had she not been tentative. The last mistake just about ruined her chances, but she did receive some first place votes (I disagreed with those).

Whether she lands a quad or not is rather immaterial. IMO she can win with a relatively clean (not necessarily perfect) program with a 3-3 combination, and in some cases even without a 3-3 combination.

Vash

peachstatesk8er · Jul 19, 2004

One thing I've wondered is if Sasha and Robin feel Sasha has a better chance of landing a quad than a difficult 3/3 (not that any of them are easy). Everyone is talking about how she needs more 3/3's, but maybe the quad is actually easier in her case.

I also wonder if the quad is actually easier on the body with only one landing to contend with rather than 2 in a 3/3, and if that may be a factor at all, although I've heard they're also working on 3/3's.

bronxgirl · Jul 19, 2004

I wonder what all of this practicing of a quad that Sasha may or may not need will do to a vertebra that has already suffered a fracture in the past (I believe that was the nature of her back injury a few years ago).

registered · Jul 19, 2004

Fossi said:
Sasha has only landed one 3/3 in her entire career, no quads, and has only skated a clean LP once.
I think she should focus on getting her triples consistent, then maybe a 3/3, and lastly the quad.

Sasha've skated clean LP 3 times: QR 2003, QR 2004, Marshall's. She landed clean 3/3 once, but she was also doing 3/0.5/3 in competition.

Ladies increasingly performing more and more difficult jumps and combinations these days. I think quad is something that could give her an edge in 2006. Just because she was concentrating on exploring the COP, since it seems what her focus was mainly on for most of competitive year, doesn't mean she cannot push herself for the upcoming year.

She writes in her journal that she's training a 3/3 too. I think Robin's approach is the right one.

PrincessLeppard · Jul 19, 2004

registered said:
Sasha've skated clean LP 3 times: QR 2003, QR 2004, Marshall's.

Her Worlds QR 2003 was one of her better skates, but she had a couple of stumbles in there, most noticably the trip on the forward crossover. Still, I was impressed and actually thought she was a bit undermarked.

Laura

Sasha working on quad for upcoming season

Joesitz (RIP)

Lipinskifan19

icenut84

Vash01

Fossi

gezando

Ogre Mage

thvudragon

SkateFan4Life

Guest

euterpe

peachstatesk8er

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

chuckm

soogar

swannanoa54

Vash01

peachstatesk8er

bronxgirl

registered

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~

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