NYTimes article on the U.S. Ladies

I don't think it's about the difference in culture. The US is fundamentally wealthier society. That's why coaches are more expensive (there is more money to pay for them). This also gives better grounds for rational thinking like investment in a college degree makes more sense than pursuing a career in sports. Both American and Russian girls will get the same $20,000 (?) for winning a GP but for a Russian girl it makes much bigger deal. Also a college degree in Russia means nothing unless we are talking about a dozen of colleges for the whole 140 million people country.

Maxim is a smart guy for sure, but he might be not a rocket scientist so that his education could result in nothing career wise. But he proved to be a genius skater. Was the sacrifice worth it? Same is the story of Yulia's mom moving to Moscow leaving all her life behind. Similar are the stories of little girls going to Moscow without parents (Zagitova) to pursue the dream.

As Karl Marx said everything is about economics.I think, it works here as well - not much about culture. "Das Sein bestimmt das Bewusstsein"

[email protected] said:

I don't think it's about the difference in culture. The US is fundamentally wealthier society. That's why coaches are more expensive (there is more money to pay for them). This also gives better grounds for rational thinking like investment in a college degree makes more sense than pursuing a career in sports. Both American and Russian girls will get the same $20,000 (?) for winning a GP but for a Russian girl it makes much bigger deal. Also a college degree in Russia means nothing unless we are talking about a dozen of colleges for the whole 140 million people country.

Maxim is a smart guy for sure, but he might be not a rocket scientist so that his education could result in nothing career wise. But he proved to be a genius skater. Was the sacrifice worth it? Same is the story of Yulia's mom moving to Moscow leaving all her life behind. Similar are the stories of little girls going to Moscow without parents (Zagitova) to pursue the dream.

As Karl Marx said everything is about economics.I think, it works here as well - not much about culture. "Das Sein bestimmt das Bewusstsein"

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For every skater and family who have made incredible sacrifices and made it big, there are dozens of others who do not. All of that sacrifice for no (financial) benefit. The risk-reward of seriously pursuing a sport like figure skating is a very tough choice to make, and Russians are more willing than Americans to make that choice, perhaps due to their differing economic circumstances and the wealth of the societies they are used to.

No rational US parent would choose figure skating over groceries or housing or other basic needs. Maybe a sport like basketball or football, which plenty of parents go crazy over. It's cultural as well as economic.

The US probably has lower-income kids and families who would do very well in a Russian-style system - they would work their butts off, be competitive, fight for everything, because they are used to hard work and sacrifices and suffering, much like Russian kids and families. But those kids can't afford to skate, period. The only kids who can afford it come from upper-middle class families, and those kids and their families might be much less willing to work very hard and suffer and sacrifice because they aren't used to it.

There are kids and families in the US who have had experiences similar to Maxim's in their life. But none of them can afford to be involved in skating.

andromache said:

For every skater and family who have made incredible sacrifices and made it big, there are dozens of others who do not.

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Dozens? Tens of thousands.

The only kids who can afford (figure skating) come from upper-middle class families.

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Yes, skating is a privilege, not a right. Do you have a solution?

Manitou said:

Dozens? Tens of thousands.

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Hey man, I don't know how many kids in Russia seriously pursue skating as a career choice - I estimated low, evidently.

As to your other question - you're always trying to provoke political arguments, and I'm not taking the bait on this one. My only point was to explain how the accessibility of skating is very different in the US compared to Russia. Thanks.

andromache said:

Hey man, I don't know how many kids in Russia seriously pursue skating as a career choice - I estimated low, evidently.

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I was talking about the kids and families who give everything (or almost everything) to sports vs the percentage of them receiving their return on investment.

andromache said:

To be fair, coaching/ice time is extremely expensive in the US; I imagine it is cheaper in Russia, no matter who is paying for it.

(I haven't read the entire thread, but I imagine no one thinks that Russian skaters and their families are living in luxury - the state support, however, is one motivator for kids and parents suffering for the sport. It means that anyone of talent, no matter how poor, can still skate.)

Sport is just very culturally different between the US and Russia. In the US, suffering for the sake of sport is considered by most to be stupid and irresponsible. Why waste your $$$ when there is only a .01% chance you will ever go to the Olympics? It is considered to be bad parenting and neglect if you can't afford groceries but can afford skating lessons for your kid. Not being able to afford housing but spending money on ice time? Ridiculously irresponsible.

Sacrifices of such an extreme level for pursuing sport are just not considered acceptable in US culture. Instead, the emphasis is on making sacrifices to attain an education, because theoretically you're more likely to succeed at getting a decent-paying job with a college degree than you are to do so with a sport.

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I believe someone mentioned, there are a,lot more rinks in Russia. I was under the impression many were public?

If I had a little girl, she would need to skate 2x a day. Ice time is $12 per session, $24 a day. Lets say 6 days a week. That's $144 a week, $576 before any lessons and pricey skates. I'm understanding where the $800 a month comes from now.

Figure skaters seem to be poor relative to other elite athletes. I don't see figure skaters driving around in Bentleys and buying mansions.

I know parents who will spend money for football and baseball equipment and camps,. If their son makes it to pros, he will make $$$. It's not that uncommon. I've known semi pro ball players. One of my friends knows an NFL player.

Anyone can go outside and throw a ball or practice a pitch, run sprints, etc. If you want to figure skate, hopefully, you have rich parents.

I don't know many skaters with rich parents. Most parents of skaters seem to be very frugal people.

Now if the child quit skating, then the parents would be rich!

Why do people post pictures of skaters mid-jump? Never a good idea.