Brown: "I need to move forward"

noskates · Jan 9, 2018

Wow. Obviously many of you criticizing Jason have not been in an arena when he's skating. All last week he got probably the biggest ovations of any skater other than Nathan. His performances are electric. I think he's had trouble with his confidence this year but I agree with El Henry - figure skating needs more Jasons. The average fan probably doesn't know a quad toe from a triple flip (just made that up) but they know when they're being entertained. I sat among a bunch of newbies to figure skating during the short program and all the comments were about Jason and what a performer he is. As much as I like Kori, I think she holds him back. He's more than capable of rotating quads. I saw him land 3 or 4 in practice and warm ups. There's clearly something wrong with his take off or his rotation or something (not a coach - couldn't say) but he needs a good jump coach. don't write him off just yet, He loves the sport, loves the crowds and he's much loved in return. I'd rather watch Jason all day than one Vincent Zhou program where he skates, skates, skates, does a jump, sometimes lands it, skates, skates, skates does another jump - none of which has any relationship to the music playing and his choreography is juvenile at best. Not picking on Vincent - I think he needs some time - but to dismiss Jason because he doesn't have a quad is ludicrous.

IIRC - Jason is the one that got us the third man for Olys and Worlds. Clearly there is some merit there.

bobbob · Jan 9, 2018

In the four years since Sochi, much has changed. Skaters have been improving, and there has been a major quad revolution, with skaters like Boyang Jin and Nathan Chen leading almost all elite male figure skaters to implement more and more quads. Artistry may have taken a backseat. Yuzuru went from executing one clean quad at Sochi to doing four clean ones last year at Worlds. Boyang did 5, and Shoma did 5, too, albeit messy. Nathan attempted 6, although unsuccessful. Jason brown has not caught up...you can say his jumps have improved visually, but the difficulty of his jump content has unfortunately stayed stagnant, with his 3A decreasing in quality. Unfortunately, for good or for bad, the sport has evolved in a way that is not for him.

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

And it's up to Jason to decide if he wants out. I don't expect him to quit. He loves the sport and he likes competiting in spite of his challenges. And I wouldn't be fooled by the sunny demeanor; he is much more gritty than people think he is.

Kristi Yamaguchi made a point to tweet Jason's stsq from the FS saying she could watch that all day as a counterpoint to her praise for Vincent's quad filled program. She also tweeted to praise Jason for his Hamilton program I think that speaks volumes on how he is seen by other skaters, including those as decorated as Kristi- which is far different than the narrative some want to push here.

All that said, I try not to buy into confirmation bias. So I'll make a point of saying that the 3A has been inconsistent in competition this season, including at nationals. There's work to do. And those of you who say he might not amount to much more could turn out to be right. There are skaters who never turn that corner. But I'd rather wait and see.

noskates · Jan 9, 2018

:agree:

moonvine · Jan 9, 2018

noskates said:
Wow. Obviously many of you criticizing Jason have not been in an arena when he's skating. All last week he got probably the biggest ovations of any skater other than Nathan. His performances are electric. I think he's had trouble with his confidence this year but I agree with El Henry - figure skating needs more Jasons. The average fan probably doesn't know a quad toe from a triple flip (just made that up) but they know when they're being entertained. I sat among a bunch of newbies to figure skating during the short program and all the comments were about Jason and what a performer he is. As much as I like Kori, I think she holds him back. He's more than capable of rotating quads. I saw him land 3 or 4 in practice and warm ups. There's clearly something wrong with his take off or his rotation or something (not a coach - couldn't say) but he needs a good jump coach. don't write him off just yet, He loves the sport, loves the crowds and he's much loved in return. I'd rather watch Jason all day than one Vincent Zhou program where he skates, skates, skates, does a jump, sometimes lands it, skates, skates, skates does another jump - none of which has any relationship to the music playing and his choreography is juvenile at best. Not picking on Vincent - I think he needs some time - but to dismiss Jason because he doesn't have a quad is ludicrous.

IIRC - Jason is the one that got us the third man for Olys and Worlds. Clearly there is some merit there.

I was not in the arena this weekend, but I have been lucky enough to see him skate in person and I agree. Also I noticed there was so much stuff thrown on the ice after he skated what was for him a mediocre skate, it looked like a dump truck had pulled up and just unloaded right there.

Tavi... · Jan 9, 2018

bobbob said:
In the four years since Sochi, much has changed. Skaters have been improving, and there has been a major quad revolution, with skaters like Boyang Jin and Nathan Chen leading almost all elite male figure skaters to implement more and more quads. Artistry may have taken a backseat. Yuzuru went from executing one clean quad at Sochi to doing four clean ones last year at Worlds. Boyang did 5, and Shoma did 5, too, albeit messy. Nathan attempted 6, although unsuccessful. Jason brown has not caught up...you can say his jumps have improved visually, but the difficulty of his jump content has unfortunately stayed stagnant, with his 3A decreasing in quality. Unfortunately, for good or for bad, the sport has evolved in a way that is not for him.

Jason absolutely struggled this season, likely due to Olympic pressure; his 3A was highly inconsistent, and even jumps that are normally solid as a rock for him were sometimes wonky. He still managed to achieve top ten scores on the ISU SB list (SP: 8, FS: 9, Total: 10) and qualify as an alternate for the GPF. He’s still #6 on the ISU season's World ranking. Not bad for a quadless guy who was having a very (for him) subpar season. And when he’s not struggling (see eg 2017 Worlds) he’s getting much higher GOE on his 3As (1.50-2.00) than he did earlier in his career.

What happens after this season is an open question, but IMO the fact that he’s managed to stay relevant despite his technical deficits and (this season) inconsistency is a testament to his overall talent and drive. Given that the ISU may tweak scoring next season in a way that favors his strengths, I wouldn’t be so quick to write him off.

JustMe · Jan 9, 2018

noskates said:
Wow. Obviously many of you criticizing Jason have not been in an arena when he's skating. All last week he got probably the biggest ovations of any skater other than Nathan. His performances are electric. I think he's had trouble with his confidence this year but I agree with El Henry - figure skating needs more Jasons. The average fan probably doesn't know a quad toe from a triple flip (just made that up) but they know when they're being entertained. I sat among a bunch of newbies to figure skating during the short program and all the comments were about Jason and what a performer he is. As much as I like Kori, I think she holds him back. He's more than capable of rotating quads. I saw him land 3 or 4 in practice and warm ups. There's clearly something wrong with his take off or his rotation or something (not a coach - couldn't say) but he needs a good jump coach. don't write him off just yet, He loves the sport, loves the crowds and he's much loved in return. I'd rather watch Jason all day than one Vincent Zhou program where he skates, skates, skates, does a jump, sometimes lands it, skates, skates, skates does another jump - none of which has any relationship to the music playing and his choreography is juvenile at best. Not picking on Vincent - I think he needs some time - but to dismiss Jason because he doesn't have a quad is ludicrous.

IIRC - Jason is the one that got us the third man for Olys and Worlds. Clearly there is some merit there.

I agree that Jason is in a league of his own in terms of skating skills, at least here in the US. I also agree that Kori (and Rohene) have done all they can to help him develop him technically and even artistically (and they did a great job). But I -and many others- feel like the clock is running out for him to take his jumps to the next level, unless he does some deep soul searching ASAP and makes some changes to his team. The reality of this sport is that quadruple-filled programs will get more points and medals than top PCS yet quad-less programs. It is great for audiences to witness skaters and programs like Jason's, but like Lipinski said at last year's Nationals "the time of the quad-less program is over", and this year I believe the door was shut after Adam. I honestly think it will be difficult to make it out of US Nationals without a consistent quad and into a world/olympic team (and it's about time, really).
On that same note, Vincent is young enough (very young, actually) and with plenty of time to develop and improve on his PCS...I mean, just look at what Nathan has been able to do in a year. In fact, assuming both Nathan and Vincent continue to skate after the Olympics, I'm sure they can become just as artistic as Jason (or close to it).

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

There's no doubt the jumps need work and he has to get the quads, but I think the huddle Jason dealt with this season is confidence in what he has to offer. He's fallen on the opening quad before but then hit everything else. In the arena, when he fell and stumbling his way out of that opening quad, you could see the doubt and it wasn't going away.

It was actually the contrast to the SP. He made that 3A error, but he moved on quickly and hit the rest of that program.

brightphoton · Jan 9, 2018

JustMe said:
I agree that Jason is in a league of his own in terms of skating skills, at least here in the US. I also agree that Kori (and Rohene) have done all they can to help him develop him technically and even artistically (and they did a great job). But I -and many others- feel like the clock is running out for him to take his jumps to the next level, unless he does some deep soul searching ASAP and makes some changes to his team. The reality of this sport is that quadruple-filled programs will get more points and medals than top PCS yet quad-less programs. It is great for audiences to witness skaters and programs like Jason's, but like Lipinski said at last year's Nationals "the time of the quad-less program is over", and this year I believe the door was shut after Adam. I honestly think it will be difficult to make it out of US Nationals without a consistent quad and into a world/olympic team (and it's about time, really).
On that same note, Vincent is young enough (very young, actually) and with plenty of time to develop and improve on his PCS...I mean, just look at what Nathan has been able to do in a year. In fact, assuming both Nathan and Vincent continue to skate after the Olympics, I'm sure they can become just as artistic as Jason (or close to it).

I thought Vicent said he was going to retire so he could go to college? I sort of remember an article from his late junior or early senior days that said he is hurriedly learning quads and putting them in competition because he doesn't want to be a skater as a career

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

brightphoton said:
I thought Vicent said he was going to retire so he could go to college? I sort of remember an article from his late junior or early senior days that said he is hurriedly learning quads and putting them in competition because he doesn't want to be a skater as a career

You're maybe thinking of Nathan? Nathan IS applying for colleges and depending on how well he does at the Olympics could decide to move on and go to college. But he said he is also open to continuing for a few more years.

When you think about it, if Jason stays, he isn't completely out of running for a future World team. I don't think it will be easy as we have a pretty deep field, but Jason can probably still rack up more points then many of the up-and-comers, save for Vincent and Nathan. And I have a feeling that Max, Ross and Grant might be done after this season (although Max has not said one way or another).

Jason is not 17 or 18, but he's five years younger than Adam, who is 28. If Adam can make an Olympic Team and two GPFs in his late 20s, who says Jason couldn't? And Todd Eldridge came back in 1994-1995 season, after missing the Olympics team the previous year, winning a national title and getting his second world medal (his in four years) pretty much at the same age Jason is now.

brightphoton · Jan 9, 2018

Mrs. P said:
You're maybe thinking of Nathan? Nathan IS applying for colleges and depending on how well he does at the Olympics could decide to move on and go to college. But he said he is also open to continuing for a few more years.

When you think about it, if Jason stays, he isn't completely out of running for a future World team. I don't think it will be easy as we have a pretty deep field, but Jason can probably still rack up more points then many of the up-and-comers, save for Vincent and Nathan. And I have a feeling that Max, Ross and Grant might be done after this season (although Max has not said one way or another).

Jason is not 17 or 18, but he's actually five years younger than Adam, who is 28. If Adam can make an Olympic Team and two GPFs in his late 20s, who says Jason couldn't?

Err maybe it was Nathan, but I'm 60% sure it was Vincent. It was a while ago but I could have sworn one of our quadsters didn't plan on staying in figure skating

It's too bad there's no pro circuit. Jason is ideal for show skating

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

brightphoton said:
Err maybe it was Nathan, but I'm 60% sure it was Vincent. It was a while ago but I could have sworn one of our quadsters didn't plan on staying in figure skating

It's too bad there's no pro circuit. Jason is ideal for show skating

There is actually a pretty decent show circuit abroad. Jeremy Abbott has been doing quite a few shows in Japan, China and Europe. Jason is really popular in Japan.

And FWIW, he's still doing SOI here in the U.S. so there's that in the short-term.

brightphoton · Jan 9, 2018

Mrs. P said:
There is actually a pretty decent show circuit abroad. Jeremy Abbott has been doing quite a few shows in Japan, China and Europe. Jason is really popular in Japan.

And FWIW, he's still doing SOI here in the U.S. so there's that in the short-term.

But I don't live in Japan .....

I don't think SOI has ever come to my city. Disney on Ice does come by with some regularity though

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

brightphoton said:
But I don't live in Japan .....

I don't think SOI has ever come to my city. Disney on Ice does come by with some regularity though

I guess I was talking more on whether Jason could make a living off show skating, if he wanted too, and I think he can.

But yes it's not ideal if you're based in the U.S.

My impression however, is that Jason will probably shift gears when he gets out of skating competitively. He talked a lot about teaching English abroad (namely Japan) and doing something in communications like commentating or motivational speaking.

Tavi... · Jan 9, 2018

Mrs. P said:
There's no doubt the jumps need work and he has to get the quads, but I think the huddle Jason dealt with this season is confidence in what he has to offer. He's fallen on the opening quad before but then hit everything else. In the arena, when he fell and stumbling his way out of that opening quad, you could see the doubt and it wasn't going away.

It was actually the contrast to the SP. He made that 3A error, but he moved on quickly and hit the rest of that program.

His FS fall looked like a really bad one, which might have impacted his ability to continue. But I think you’re right that his confidence was a big issue, and has been for months. The fact that he and his team couldn’t fully right the ship all season suggests to me that the problem wasn’t one single thing.

Last year at Worlds he fell on his opening quad, but was up so quickly it was hardly noticeable. I remember him commenting later that after what he had gone through at Nationals (pushing through the injury and really painful falls) the fall at Worlds was nothing; he just told himself okay, you fell, get up, keep going. Sadly, that didn’t happen here. It’s pretty ironic, because had he simply pulled himself together after that first jump and finished as he did at Worlds, there’s a good chance he would have medaled here.

There’s no question he had a spectacular fail here, but I do think it’s pretty ridiculous that people are proclaiming him done and over the hill at 23.

snowflake · Jan 9, 2018

Mrs. P said:
I guess I was talking more on whether Jason could make a living off show skating, if he wanted too, and I think he can.

But yes it's not ideal if you're based in the U.S.

My impression however, is that Jason will probably shift gears when he gets out of skating competitively. He talked a lot about teaching English abroad (namely Japan) and doing something in communications like commentating or motivational speaking.

You present a great future for him combined with show skating in Japan :thumbsup:
Before that I really think Jason wants to compete more and improve. Like Abbott wanted until he finally retired officially. So hard for athletes to quit and handle the transition I'm sure.

brightphoton said:
I thought Vicent said he was going to retire so he could go to college? I sort of remember an article from his late junior or early senior days that said he is hurriedly learning quads and putting them in competition because he doesn't want to be a skater as a career

I thought Vincent said his main goal was olympics in China where he has relatives cheering for him

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

snowflake said:
You present a great future for him combined with show skating in Japan :thumbsup:
Before that I really think Jason wants to compete more and improve. Like Abbott wanted until he finally retired officially. So hard for athletes to quit and handle the transition I'm sure.

Yes it sounds great. I do think Jason's parents emphasized the importance of having a life outside of skating. He's been taking classes at University of Coloraldo -Coloraldo Springs -- he'd completed the equivalent of two years of college, which he mentioned during his interview with PJ Kwong.

I actually won't be surprised if he tries to go for one more Olympic team.

AKGROWN · Jan 9, 2018

noskates said:
Wow. Obviously many of you criticizing Jason have not been in an arena when he's skating. All last week he got probably the biggest ovations of any skater other than Nathan. His performances are electric. I think he's had trouble with his confidence this year but I agree with El Henry - figure skating needs more Jasons. The average fan probably doesn't know a quad toe from a triple flip (just made that up) but they know when they're being entertained. I sat among a bunch of newbies to figure skating during the short program and all the comments were about Jason and what a performer he is. As much as I like Kori, I think she holds him back. He's more than capable of rotating quads. I saw him land 3 or 4 in practice and warm ups. There's clearly something wrong with his take off or his rotation or something (not a coach - couldn't say) but he needs a good jump coach. don't write him off just yet, He loves the sport, loves the crowds and he's much loved in return. I'd rather watch Jason all day than one Vincent Zhou program where he skates, skates, skates, does a jump, sometimes lands it, skates, skates, skates does another jump - none of which has any relationship to the music playing and his choreography is juvenile at best. Not picking on Vincent - I think he needs some time - but to dismiss Jason because he doesn't have a quad is ludicrous.

IIRC - Jason is the one that got us the third man for Olys and Worlds. Clearly there is some merit there.

THIS is why Jason has not reached his potential. I applaud his dedication and loyalty to her but not every coach can take you to the next level. A coach who is committed to helping a skater become their best will help them to see that moving on is what they need. I realize I'm being harsh on Kori - so Jason himself must accept some blame as well. I'm not sure why he has not changed coaches or what the dynamic is that prevented him from doing so but it, IMHO, is the reason we have not seen Jason reach his full potential. It's sad, really.

snowflake · Jan 9, 2018

Mrs. P said:
Yes it sounds great. I do think Jason's parents emphasized the importance of having a life outside of skating. He's been taking classes at University of Coloraldo -Coloraldo Springs -- he'd completed the equivalent of two years of college, which he mentioned during his interview with PJ Kwong.

I actually won't be surprised if he tries to go for one more Olympic team.

Probably, I hope he does. I'm more for watching great skaters in competitions than in shows/galas.

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2018

snowflake said:
Probably, I hope he does. I'm more for watching great skaters in competitions than in shows/galas.

Yeah me too. And I think Jason likes competition. He likes to perform and entertain the audience but I don't think that's the same as liking to perform in shows. I think he works hard and he likes to show that to the audience.

As for a coaching change, I think it's too easy to blame the coach. Kori still helped Jason get on an Olympic Team, many GP medals, a national champion and two World teams. I will grant that Jason could benefit from a different perspective, but we'll see if that comes from a coaching change or collaborating with another coach.

Speaking of other coaches, Frank and Kori were at the boards for the first group at the free skate. They gave each other a warm hug and talked for a few minutes. It seems they have a good relationship, so perhaps we'll see Jason work more with Frank.

Brown: "I need to move forward"

noskates

bobbob

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

noskates

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

Tavi...

JustMe

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

brightphoton

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

brightphoton

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

brightphoton

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Tavi...

snowflake

I enjoy what I like

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

AKGROWN

snowflake

I enjoy what I like

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

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