What order jumps are learnt in?

Vanshilar said:

My coach strongly believes that the salchow should be learned before the toe loop. We both agree that the LTS curriculum having the toe loop first is a bad thing -- at the beginner levels, there's more of a pressure for the instructor to let a bad jump slide (especially if the other skills for that level are already there), and the toe loop is one jump where having bad technique (toe waltz) will be very difficult to correct later.

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hahaha! I wish I had known this before as a kid! I was in ISI for a year at 14 years old, so they let a lot of things "slide". When I returned 12 years later, my rink had switched to USFSA and I've been trying correct my crappy toe loop as an adult. Within a year as an adult skater, I have under-rotated axel/2sal/2loop jumps, but working on 2toe bites me in the butt because my single toe loop is so crappy.


Order I learned my jumps:
ISI at age 14: waltz, salchow, toe loop, half-flip, half-lutz, loop, flip, lutz. (When I quit, I was working on loop/flip/lutz, but I only barely had a teeny tiny loop. I did not have a flip or lutz at all. And my toe loop was really a toe waltz since they were letting things "slide".)
Interestingly, teaching half-flip and half-lutz was super common, but half-loop was not. I didn't even know half-loop existed until I came back as an adult skater 12 years later.
USFSA at age 26: got my loop back and improved it drastically. Added flip and lutz within 6 months of skating. Started working on axel. Started working on 2sal, 2toe, 2loop a few months after that.
USFSA at age 27: one year later, my axel is still under-rotated by 1/4, 2sal, 2loop are still drastically under-rotated by 1/2. I think it's both a fear thing and SKILL thing, so working hard on MIF to improve my edge control for jump takeoffs. My toe loop is still crappy, but slowly getting better. Wanting to work on 2toe forces me to try to clean it up.
I'm struggling not to over-rotate my single flip sometimes. I did try for a 2flip the other day and it was the same as 2loop, 1/2 under-rotated. My lutz technique is still too shaky to have over-rotation problems yet. I can attach 2 loops on the end of a lutz, but I really struggled to land in a backspin when I tried it the other day.

So yeah, I can "feel" how much I want to take off for more than 1 rotation on jumps since my take-offs are so much stronger than the year before, but I'm not yet strong enough to get all the way there to 2 complete revolutions. I'm trapped between 1 and 2 at 1.5 revolutions. gah! :noshake:


I feel less alone since so many people in this thread hate toe loop too, even compared to axel and 2loop, which are my best attempts!! My 2sal is nothing to write home about.
I think I am an "edge jumper", however I do really like flip and lutz, even more than salchow.
Favorites from greatest to least: loop, flip, lutz, axel, salchow, toe loop. (I think if I can ever get the axel fully rotated, it might move up behind loop.)
I feel like maybe I was set-up to hate sal and toe more than the other jumps since I learned them as a kid in ISI and was allowed to get away with horrible technique. Whereas I learned loop, flip, lutz as an adult and wasn't allowed to "slide" on technique, since my coach wanted to turn them into doubles eventually.

Update: I had my toe loop lesson yesterday and it has now become my favourite jump - serves me right for prejudging haha. My coach says my technique is almost perfect (I just need to work on my shoulder position).
I also done some loop prep and managed a tiny loop hop - I wont go as far as to say a jump yet.

I somehow managed to lose my - up until now - consistent salchow... figure skating is a funny old sport!

So, it looks like my order is panning out to be waltz, salchow, toe loop, loop.

What's a toe-waltz? Once your toe pick is on the ice you really just turn forward on it and do a waltz jump?

pearly said:

What's a toe-waltz? Once your toe pick is on the ice you really just turn forward on it and do a waltz jump?

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Yes. It's very common, and the sooner it's fixed, the better.

Arwen17 said:

Interestingly, teaching half-flip and half-lutz was super common, but half-loop was not. I didn't even know half-loop existed until I came back as an adult skater 12 years later.

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Half loop is a required jump for ISI FS5 together with Flip and Loop. You have to pass half loop to get to Lutz (FS5). More likely that you did it if you went through the test requirement.

I think the half loop is funny jump. You feel the same way with jumping rope somehow.

pearly said:

What's a toe-waltz? Once your toe pick is on the ice you really just turn forward on it and do a waltz jump?

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Yes, in my understanding, a toe-waltz happens when you're upper body starts turning before you lift off for the jump. This results in you pretty much doing half a rotation on the ice so that you end up facing forwards, and then jumping and doing the other half rotation in the air.

For a toe loop, your feet almost have to cross over eachother and your jump starts whilst facing backwards.

I'm not a 100% on this, as ive only had one lesson on it and im sure more experienced skaters would be able to explain it better/more accurately, but that was what I took from my lesson.

Spinning said:

Half loop is a required jump for ISI FS5 together with Flip and Loop. You have to pass half loop to get to Lutz (FS5). More likely that you did it if you went through the test requirement.

I think the half loop is funny jump. You feel the same way with jumping rope somehow.

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Nope. I learned half-flip, the half-lutz, then loop. Never half-loop. Maybe my coach didn't want to show me half-loop until my loop was fully mastered since I was struggling to learn flip and lutz and just kept doing half-flip and half-lutz instead. I sometimes think the half jumps aren't a good idea since it gets a kid comfortable with only going halfway. My rink has always taught jumps in "clusters", regardless of what's on a test, in case a skater proves better at one particular jump or another. If you can succeed at one of the jumps in the cluster: {loop,flip,lutz}, the other two will likely follow soon. waltz,salchow,toe-loop are also taught back-to-back. So are axel, 2sal, 2toe, etc. 2loop is often added just because its a great way to practice backspin position for the other jumps. Which leaves 2flip and 2lutz in their own cluster together. But yeah, I've never known anyone at my rink who's only working on ONE jump at a time, unless they just choose that for themselves because they want to learn that way. They may have their "favorite" jump they spend the most time on, but they have been given multiple jumps as homework and coach doesn't really care which one you favor and succeed at first, since the other two in the cluster will likely follow in success shortly.

Figuringitout said:

Yes, in my understanding, a toe-waltz happens when you're upper body starts turning before you lift off for the jump. This results in you pretty much doing half a rotation on the ice so that you end up facing forwards, and then jumping and doing the other half rotation in the air.

For a toe loop, your feet almost have to cross over eachother and your jump starts whilst facing backwards.

I'm not a 100% on this, as ive only had one lesson on it and im sure more experienced skaters would be able to explain it better/more accurately, but that was what I took from my lesson.

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My toe waltz is I pick wherever I feel like and just jump around with my toe going thru first. A real toe-loop needs to be properly picked behind you and then the HEEL goes thru first, which creates a "flick-thru" pivot shape on the ice.

Arwen17 said:

Nope. I learned half-flip, the half-lutz, then loop. Never half-loop. Maybe my coach didn't want to show me half-loop until my loop was fully mastered since I was struggling to learn flip and lutz and just kept doing half-flip and half-lutz instead. I sometimes think the half jumps aren't a good idea since it gets a kid comfortable with only going halfway.

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1/2 loop isn't actually a half jump though. So you wouldn't learn it with 1/2 flip and 1/2 lutz. I don't know anything about ISI levels, but I'm working on Freeskate 4 and 5 in the LTS program and loop is taught in level 3, 1/2 loop and flip in level four, lutz in level 5. I really like 1/2 loops, they are super fun to do in combos and easier than regular loops in my opinion. I probably landed 100 1/2 loops on accident while learning my loop jump. They just officially changed its name to euler which should cause less confusion.

Learned: waltz, Salchow, toe loop, loop, flip, (Lutz).

Landed: waltz (4 weeks for any kind of height), Salchow (2 months), toe loop (five minutes), flip (3 months), loop (ongoing project; extremely inconsistent). Ongoing joke with coach is that I will start landing Lutzes before I get a consistent loop. But the Salchow is the jump I truly hate and we have to revisit it frequently.

karne said:

Learned: waltz, Salchow, toe loop, loop, flip, (Lutz).

Landed: waltz (4 weeks for any kind of height), Salchow (2 months), toe loop (five minutes), flip (3 months), loop (ongoing project; extremely inconsistent). Ongoing joke with coach is that I will start landing Lutzes before I get a consistent loop. But the Salchow is the jump I truly hate and we have to revisit it frequently.

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Ugh yeah I have to revisit the Salchow a lot also. The loop and Flip are super easy for me. I find the toe loop uncomfortable... I really don't like it. My lutz is 50/50 right now.

Nimyue said:

Ugh yeah I have to revisit the Salchow a lot also. The loop and Flip are super easy for me. I find the toe loop uncomfortable... I really don't like it. My lutz is 50/50 right now.

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LOL shows how different we all are. Salchow and toe loop are my favourites; Salchow was easiest for me as it is basically a left outside 3-turn followed by a waltz jump (albeit form an inside edge rather than outside). Toe loop took a lot of time to get through practice, but now that I can do it I like it

Loop and Flip are very hard for me. I'm just getting little loops now using same entrance that I use as my toe loop (left inside edge, right inside 3 turn....back crossovers do not work for me).
Taking off from right leg is very different for me, especially since I broke my right ankle last year.