Canadian dance judge John Greenwood to judge for AZE

[oxade21]

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/SkateFans/message/185018

I hope the issue of Russian loaned judges is closed and this shuts up all consipracy theorists (we all know who they are here).

 

[chuckm]

Whoopee DO! So Canada 'loans' a judge to AZE. So what?

The ISU technical committee is in charge of assigning judges to competitions. What makes you think that this committee (which is headed by a Russian) is going to send a Canadian AZE judge to as many competitions as the AZE judge went to this season (3 competitions and 4 judging panels)?

Maybe the Russian AZE judge was supposed to support AZE's dance team and failed to do so, so Russia lost out on that extra vote.

Meanwhile, Russian 'loans' to ARM, UZB and BLR are still being assigned to panel after panel, competition after competition. Of course, none of those countries have any skaters or teams anywhere near approaching the top 10 at Worlds as AZE has, so Russia should easily hold onto those spots.

 

[blue dog]

I see the point of the Canadian AZE judge--isn't Gislafson, a former Canadian dancer going to represent AZE with Morgan Matthews. It makes sense that they bring along a judge, since I don't think there are many AZE judges.

Not to mention, judges country-hop all the time (Katalin Alpern of Hungary has judged for two different countries in two different Olympics, and is now set to judge a third, having moved from Israel to Italy). The Canadian AZE is just for courtesy. I think it's rather cool =)

 

[oxade21]

OMG, chuckm is alive and kicking and still on Russian hating
Well, at least AZE is worthy now.

 

[Mathman]

What exactly does the country of Azerbaijan get out of the deal? Is Mr. Greenwood expected to serve the Azerbaijan Skating Federation in some way, for instance by judging lower level contests in that country?

What does Mr. Greenwood get out of the deal? Assignment to more international competitions, if Azerbaijan's gets the long straw in the judges' draw?

What does Morgan Matthews have to do with the country of Azerbaijan? Has she ever been there?

 

[chuckm]

Apparently Azerbaijan wants to continue with a top team in ice dance, and Fraser/Lukanin are getting long in the tooth (Kristen is 28 and Igor is 32). AZE has probably arranged for both Matthews and Gislason to get Azerbaijani citizenship and they will probably make their international debut at 2009 Europeans (AZE has two slots for Euros).

My guess is also that AZE is afraid that a Russian judge would be more inclined to support Russia #3 (Bobrova/Soloviev) than F/L and M/G, so they are looking elsewhere for a judge who can sit on an ISU championship panel.

 

[blue dog]

I see MM's point. Judges, like skaters, want more assignments at the championship level. Canada has a lot of judges. AZE might not have as many... and since judges country-hop, well...

 

[dorispulaski]

I have certainly heard the Mathews/Gislaison skate for AZE story before, but it still remains moot whether the US federation will release Mathews.

However, if it isn't Mathews/Gislaison, AZE will pick up a different team.

And if you are serious about getting top 10 to qualify a second team for worlds, you've got to have a judge from your country at least in the judging pool. It's quite likely that AZE is concerned about the Russian #3 team, whomever they will be next year, and the propensity for a swapped Russian judge to prefer them to the AZE team.

Bobrova/Soloviev didn't score high enough to secure a #3 spot for worlds and Rubleva/Shefer would not have secured a #3 spot for Europeans if Domnina & Shabalin had not been there. It's not at all clear who'll be Russia's number 3 next year, and it may well be one of the Jr teams coming up rather than either B/S or R/S.

In any case, that leaves Russian number 3 competing right in the section of the rankings that the AZE team will be, and it's probably not a happy thought for AZE. In fact, I thought B&S's 13 place finish was a little high for them. Possibly the AZE fed did too, and perilously close to Fraser Lukanin at 11.

 

[chuckm]

I have certainly heard the Mathews/Gislaison skate for AZE story before, but it still remains moot whether the US federation will release Mathews.

However, if it isn't Mathews/Gislaison, AZE will pick up a different team.

Azerbaijan does not require residency as a precondition for citizenship, and the President of the country has the power to enact citizenship by decree. If Matthews and Gislason both now have AZE citizenship, the USFS and Skate Canada no longer have the power to hold them back.

And if you are serious about getting top 10 to qualify a second team for worlds, you've got to have a judge from your country at least in the judging pool. It's quite likely that AZE is concerned about the Russian #3 team, whomever they will be next year, and the propensity for a swapped Russian judge to prefer them to the AZE team.

Bobrova/Soloviev didn't score high enough to secure a #3 spot for worlds and Rubleva/Shefer would not have secured a #3 spot for Europeans if Domnina & Shabalin had not been there. It's not at all clear who'll be Russia's number 3 next year, and it may well be one of the Jr teams coming up rather than either B/S or R/S.

The two Junior ice dance teams that have aged out after this season are Monko/Tkachenko and Gorshkova/Butikov. After the off-the-podium finish of JGPF champions Monko/Tkachenko at JW, I don't think Bobrova/Soloviev have anything to worry about; their 13th place at Worlds was considerably better than could have been expected.

In any case, that leaves Russian number 3 competing right in the section of the rankings that the AZE team will be, and it's probably not a happy thought for AZE. In fact, I thought B&S's 13 place finish was a little high for them. Possibly the AZE fed did too, and perilously close to Fraser Lukanin at 11.

Exactly. Incidentally, I have heard that Kristin Fraser and Morgan Matthews are good friends, and it was Fraser who suggested that Morgan and Leif consider skating for AZE. It well may be that F/L are planning to retire at some point in the near future.

I've also read that Matthews/Gislason are going to be featured in a skating show in AZE. This makes it seem very likely that they either already have AZE citizenship, or it is about to be granted.

 

[dorispulaski]

Excellent! I'm looking forward to seeing Morgan Matthews back on the world skating scene. Thanks for the info, chuckm.

Do you think Gislaison is a good enough partner for her?

 

[chuckm]

I don't know how Matthews/Gislason looks together, but you can find out. There is going to be a skating show at IceWorks in Aston, PA on Friday and Saturday, 4/18-19 at 7pm, featuring Navarro/Bommentre and Matthews/Gislason. Tickets are $10 (or $25 for preferred seating with refreshments).

 

[dorispulaski]

I hope someone will go and write a report, Ashton--that would be IceWorks, wouldn't it, where Liberty is held in the summer, would it not?

Too bad I'll be nowhere near PA at the time.

 

[chuckm]

Yes, that's it--the Liberty arena. I don't think I can go either, but I'm sure someone will go and report back.

 

[Mathman]

I guess I am just a babe in the woods when it comes to the politics of ice dancing.

Are you all saying that an ice dance team can't get noticed and/or can't get good marks unless their country has a judge in the judge's pool? Is this judge supposed to lobby for his team (then the next day, sit on a judging panel to give his unbiased opinion of their performance?)

What form does this lobbying consist of? Will the President of Azerbajian expect the new judge to enter into negotiations with judges from other countries about placements of their dancers, etc., as part of his duties? Is he expected to go to M. Gailhaguet and offer to vote for Ponsero for third place in men's at Europeans in exchange for placing Matthews (American) and Gislason (Canadian) in 12th place, with the third best Russian team in 13th place, instead of the other way around?

 

[chuckm]

A judge who works for a federation is pretty much expected to support the team(s) from that federation. That is not to say the judge is expected to place the team #1 if the team performs in the 9th-12th range, but that the judge shouldn't place his/her country's team 14th to place a more 'favored' team higher.

I think the AZE president felt that the Russian AZE judge would be more inclined to place one or more Russian teams ahead of the AZE team, since they were all in the same group. At Worlds 2009, there will be only two Russian teams, so that wouldn't be an issue. However, looking ahead to the Olympics and 2010 worlds, it would be more advantageous for the #3 Russian team if AZE didn't have two teams competing there. That may have been the real motivating factor to not having a Russian judge representing AZE next season.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Morgan Mathew is first of all a good skate dancer. She unfortunately, had been skating with a guy who was more interested in doing technically correct and not giving anything else.

Her Tango last year with her looking like Kim Novak was priceless. I look forward to seeing this unique lady on the ice in the future. I hope Gislason is up to it.

Whoever goes, youtube, please.

Joe

 

[sashaisgreat]

ITA Joe! I am going but I don't have a video camera. But, I will give report!!!!

 

[Sylvia]

Here's Beverley's Smith's article with quotes from Greenwood and Skate Canada officials: Canadian judge's switch is 'like going to the dark side'

Jack Greenwood, who has judged two Olympic Games and many world championships for Canada, recently became an Azerbaijani citizen, just in time to meet the April 1 deadline for federations to nominate the judges they wish to do competitions next season.
...
Greenwood said he was approached before Christmas by the Azerbaijan federation. It hasn't taken long to gain citizenship. ...

In a nutshell, Greenwood said he just wanted to continue to officiate at a high level internationally and Azerbaijan has given him the chance.

He says he has no idea how others see his move. "That really didn't enter into it,'' he said.

But they are shocked.

 

[Coach]

Maybe this is one way for Mr. Greenwood to continue judging on the World stage. He is somewhat of a 'has been' and is no longer receiving prestigeous international skating assignments. Therefore, this is his way to 'dance' around to continue his judging. Also, it's no secret that this judge gets politically motivated invitations to monitor skaters in China, US, and many other countries.