Mao's 2footing -- cure in pointing her toes?

[feraina]

Mao skated a phenomenal SP in the Japanese National's, but once again there're whispers that she 2-footed her combo. Rewatching the slow-mo several times, I have to say that either she lightly brushed the ice or she barely escaped it, but in any case this seems like a perennial problem for her. It possibly cost her the WC title as well as the recent GPF gold.

It occurred to me that her tendency for "incidental" 2-footing may be related to her not pointing her toes in the air. Obviously one lands much lower on a flexed than on a pointed landing foot, and therefore it's also easier to brush the free foot on the way out. Also, pointing your toes allows you to pull the two legs/feet closer in together, as well as creating more rigidity/tension in your legs, both allowing faster rotations in the air. As a comparison, Caroline really points her feet in the air, especially the landing foot, which gives her the amazingly fast rotations in the air, as well as the ability to pull out a tidy landing with her free foot well off the ground even when the jump lands slightly under-rotated. Probably she was forced into these good habits because she never could generate too much height on her jumps.

OTOH, Mao had amazing jump height as a young skater, and her thinness gave her naturally fast rotations; so she got away with relaxed legs and ankles in the air and never had to worry about pointing her toes. Now that she has a more womanly body, her rotations are slower, plus her jumps have lost some of their height, so 2-footing's becoming a perennial problem for her. It's curious that she didn't learn to always point her toe while skating since she had substantial ballet training and even danced en pointe.

I wonder how easy it is for her to learn to point her toes mid-air -- hopefully it's not as hard as fixing a leg wrap. OTOH, I've never seen any lady skater transform an ugly layback into a beautiful classical one either, and she somehow managed it this season. So maybe she can learn to point her toes in the jumps quickly too. I feel like it would really improve her jump GOE's, and it may be something easier to fix than the flutz.

 

[Tinymavy15]

right. she dosen't really 2 foot her jumps as other skaters do, but i agree that she is like loose in the air, and keeps her feet crossed too long or somthing. She just kinda brushes her freefoot down on the landings esp her 3 axel and many judges adn commontators call it a 2 foot, when really its just strange technique.

but very glad that she skated a clean SP at nationals!

 

[Bennett]

Interesting observation with a comparison with Caroline. I agree that Mao's rotation was faster when she was younger.

I also notice that her landing foot is flexed even though she keeps her upper body and landing leg very straight. Although I do not find this air position particularly unusual, I agree that it may help her eliminating under-rotation and the two foot landing if she points the toe.

I also agree that pointing the toe might be less difficult than fixing the flutz. If you can keep the upper body and legs tight in the air, I feel that it would not be extremely difficult to extend that consciousness to the toe. But fixing a flutz is like learning a new jump if she has never taken off from the outside edge (does she flutz in single/double lutz?).

BTW, if a skater doesn't point the toe in the air, does that mean that she/he doesn't land on the toe first, but rather on the entire blade? Does that affect the flow after the landing?

 

[feraina]

BTW, if a skater doesn't point the toe in the air, does that mean that she/he doesn't land on the toe first, but rather on the entire blade? Does that affect the flow after the landing?

Actually, I think it might improve the flow to land mostly on the flat -- that might be why Mao comes out of her jumps with such flow and smoothness, whereas skaters land on their toe come out with a more definitive moment of landing given by the transition from the toe to the blade. Mao's jumps almost look like they're part of her footwork, they look so easy when she land them. But on the other hand, sometimes jumps are a good way to highlight dramatic moments in the music. Whoever did Ashley's choreography this year, for instance, have all her jumps timed perfectly with these dramatic beats. With Mao's way of landing it's almost impossible to do that kind of highlighting. So in a way, maybe her choice of classic music like Chopin is particularly apt.

Another skater who has loose-looking legs in the air is Mirai Nagasu. She gets lots of height on her jumps, and it's strange that she can under-rotate (even in her best LP performance, at National's last year, she under-rotated the second 3Lz, otherwise she wouldn't have barely beaten Caroline, who had one fall each in SP and LP). On her loop combinations (3R-2R-2R), she also sometimes has a hard time completing the rotations. It's not so much that she flexes her feet especially, but her knees are kinda bent and loosely crossed in the air. Maybe she, like Mao, also got used to being relaxed mid-air because she grew up with such natural spring in her jumps, and when she was younger she had no problem with rotations, but now that she's experiencing a growth spurt... With the kind of height Mirai gets, really she should never suffer the axe of downgrades.

 

[Oscilla]

Ironically, I was of opinion that Mao has problems with this toe-tapping because... she points her toes of the free leg too much. Other skaters, like Yukari, Miki or YuNa, keep the free foot sort of flexed during the "unfurling":

Picture

OTOH, YuNa also doesn't point the landing foot:

Picture

And while browsing the photos I noticed that in fact a lot of skater do that, so I doubt this is what causes the problem. I think a better fix would be crossing the legs a bit higher so that the knee of the free leg is just in front of the knee of the langing leg. This way on landing the bent knee of the landing leg pushes forward the free leg and forces it to "unwrap". This worked for me (I only did doubles, though). Before the growth spurt I used to cross my legs almost at the ankles, but after my leg became longer I used to catch the toe-pick and usually fall.

 

[feraina]

I think a better fix would be crossing the legs a bit higher so that the knee of the free leg is just in front of the knee of the langing leg.

Interesting observation on the height at which to cross the legs. I know everyone's legs are different shapes, so take my own experience with a grain of salt: when I straighten my legs and try to cross them as tightly as possible, my front knee is just in front of my back knee (crossing at the knee, as you said). If I try to cross my legs such that the contact is at the ankles, then I have to flex my ankles. So maybe what we are talking about are the same thing.

Yu-na doesn't actually rotate especially fast in the air. She gets SO much height on her jumps, plus she's so THIN, that she can rotate her jumps just fine without particularly tight air positions.

 

[mskater93]

Mao needs more height so she's not finishing the rotation at the bottom of the jump which makes her brush the freee foot on the way out. If she had a couple more inches of height in her jump, she could bring the free leg up at the bottom of the jump and start checking out before she landed which would remove all doubt.

 

[feraina]

Mao needs more height so she's not finishing the rotation at the bottom of the jump which makes her brush the freee foot on the way out.

Height would help, ITA. She's noticeably lost height on her jumps since her growth spurt. I don't know what would get her height back. Maybe better timing on the take-off. Maybe losing a few pounds. Yu-na is thinner than ever (for her size), and manages to retain her muscle power, so that she gets all that spring in her jump -- she probably has 5-10 pounds less than Mao to hurtle into the air.

Of course such a strategy may not be feasible for Mao. She's a different person, and maybe for her she is at her most comfortable shape in her maturing physique. But if there's no way for her to get her height back, then I think she needs to work on in-air technique that would get her tighter revolutions; or greater awareness of her free foot so that she lifts the foot well out of the way on the landing.

 

[Bennett]

It doesn't look like Mao has much weight to lose. She seems to be in wonderful shape. I like the way her upper body and her legs are really well balanced. For dancers, ballerinas, and figure skaters, it is often difficult to maintain the overall balance because they tend to gain more muscles on their legs relative to those on their upper body. Mai has a more womanly body than Mao and looks really wonderful. Mai makes a beautiful picture by just taking on the ice.

According to Mao's interviews, it seems that she has already been careful not to gain weight while doing gym training to gain strengths.

After she finishes growing, she can perhaps master the techniques that can compensate for the lower height and slower rotation in her jumps.

 

[Bennett]

Mao's 2-footed 3A at GPF.

http://sports.livedoor.com/photo/de...%A3%A5%AE%A5%E5%A5%A2%A5%B9%A5%B1%A1%BC%A5%C8

Indeed, the toe of the free leg is lower than that of the landing leg. (But wow, she has really long legs!)

 

[feraina]

I agree that Mao's womanly shape looks wonderful. I just hope she can fix her 2-footing problem one way or the other.

I looked around a little to see if I could find other skaters mid-air. I came across one of Caroline's (in the GPF SP gallery on ice_network). I think it might actually be a shot of her just upon touch-down, as she's starting to pull out her free leg, but you can see clearly that she had been pointing her landing foot. Her free foot is a good bit higher than the landing one.