Nikolai Velikov's assessment of Russian skating | Golden Skate

Nikolai Velikov's assessment of Russian skating

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/default.asp?id=256196

April 12, 2007, #050 (17 204)

[size=+2]Figure Skating. Renowned Russian coach Nikolai Velikov: This nightmare is the first in forty years![/size]

Dmitri Somov

We discussed the state of figure skating in our country with one of the leading pair skating specialists Nikolai Velikov. He works in Saint Petersburg with his spouse Ludmila Georgievna. Among his students are world champions Maria Petrova, Anton Sikhuralidze, and many other famous skaters

[size=+1]WANT A MEDAL? JUMP TRIPLE-TRIPLE.[/size]

Nikolai Matveevich, was it possible to soften, if not entirely to prevent, the disaster of 2007 World championships?

I think so. First of all, there should have been some order in the team. As it was, other than in ice dance, it was unclear until the last moment who was going, and who wasn’t. That unnerved the athletes and their coaches a lot, preventing a full out planned preparation for the championships.

Let’s start with why your own pair skating tanked as it did

It’s such a shame that Petrova/ Tikhonov ended their career on such a sad note! Lesha got injured – pulled groin. I think the guys didn’t plan to finish LIKE THAT.

The team Mukhortova/ Trankov started having trouble during practices in Tokyo. In the free skate, when first Masha made a mistake, and than Maxim did, the kid got totally lost. They usually skate well, but as it was… Masha’s injury, which she sustained a couple of months ago, made itself evident. Yuka Kawaguchi, too, did not fully recover from her injuries by Tokyo.

I am sure that Julia Obertas and Sergei Slavnov should have been sent to the World championships. They were very well prepared for that competition. Petrova and Tikhonov, meanwhile, should not have been included in the team, but invited to Tokyo as honored guests. Our federation is not so poor as to be unable to splurge like that on skaters, who have been serving the Russian team for almost a decade.

In theory, could we have been in contention of pair medals?

Alas. Today, pair skating has a leaders’ quartet that is impenetrable for any of our kids. First of all, it’s the Chinese Xue Shen/ Hongbo Zhao, Qing Pang/ Juan Tong, German Savchenko/ Szolkowy, and Ukrainian Volosozhar/ Morozov. Those duos have a solid reputation with the judges.

In the finally tally, Americans and Canadians followed the leaders. This includes Dube/ Davison, who just two years ago visibly lost to my former team Mukhortova/ Trankov. Now it’s the reverse.

In singles skating, our kids really tanked!

Yes, but I can’t blame Andrei Lutai or Sergei Voronov at all. The boys did not spare themselves in this fight. It’s not their fault that it all ended in such disrepute. Both of them still lack international experience. No Junior World championships can replace participation in a serious “meat grinder” – that’s invaluable. Yes, they’re both talented. But it takes time for this talent to bring results.

Besides, Voronov performed in Tokyo rather tired, also with a serious injury. He skated his free with inflamed ankle joint and knee; after the performance, our coaches carried him to the bus as he couldn’t walk. Basically, he is a hero. No irony here.

What about the girls?

A complete fiasco! This, despite Arina Martynova having skated a clean free for the first time this season. If you don’t do the “triple-triple” combo, you have no chance for a high placement. That is the level of women’s single skating today.

Just take the trio of medalists as an example. Of course, the Korean Yu-Na Kim is a separate story due to her airy, light skating. But Elena Sokolova was a disappointment. Lately, she’s been landing her favorite triple lutz on both feet.

Here is what’s so irksome. Had any of our ladies risen just one place in the final tally, we could have sent two skaters to the next worlds. As it is, we’ve shown the most disastrous results of the past 40 years.

Even the ice dance didn’t save us…

What was happening in the ice dance was despicable. I am talking about how Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin were treated. They should have been up on the podium. The only leaders I like beside our kids are the Bulgarians Denkova/ Stavijski who successfully defended their title. The French team Delobel/ Schoenfelder that I like a lot, skated visible worse than at the recent European championships, where they medaled. I am not even talking about Belbin/ Agosto. Even without being an ice dance specialist, I could see serious mistakes in their free dance. How could they medaled skating like that? Their program appeared to simple to me. This contrasted greatly with the dance of Domnina/ Shabal,n, which had taste, style, and difficulty.

Khokhlova/ Novitsky were not in the medal contention, but they are a good, original duo. Their coaches Alexander Svinin and Irina Zhuk are doing a great job. Whereas Domnina and Shabalin have a winning beauty and style, Khokhlova and Novitski are fresh, dazzling, and bold. In a word, Russia today has two good ice dance pairs, very different from each other.

[size=+1]IT TAKES TIME TO BUILD ADEQUARE REPLACMENT[/size]

We have teams, but no medals

You see, a medal in figure skating comes not only from one given dance, but from a thousand details and underwater currents. Perhaps, it is still the backlash of our three golds in Turin.

Do you agree that a colossal harm to our serves was caused by the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKR) leadership paying too much attention to the leaders who have now retired from the big sport?

Yes, I agree. Nobody was interested in Juniors. Only in the adult team leaders.

The senior coach of the Junior team Galina Petrovna Golubkova did all she could working with our reserve, and our victories at the junior level should largely be credited to her. Despite this, she cannot go over her boss’s head.

In your opinion, it FFKR president Valentin Piseev personally responsible to the Tokyo disaster?

Yes. He is. Who was it that just let the situation go?

Should Russian fans just go drown themselves?

In fact, nothing terrible is happening, if you don’t count women’s single skating. There, it’s all finished, but the problems are resolvable in all other disciplines. All serious coaches are working. There is competition, so result improvement is inevitable. Metaphorically speaking, Russian figure skating’s top has been removed. It just takes time to build adequate replacement.

What if we convince the Turin 2006 champions to come back?

Is it worth it? First of all, let’s be honest, some of them are not in good health. Secondly, many have other plans. Thirdly, it’s much easier to skate in shows. And it gives good money. But that’s not all. It’s not a given that our fabulous Zhenya Plushenko would be won in Tokyo. Men’s single skating has made a huge step forward in the past year. It would have been difficult to compete with well-prepared Lambiel, Joubert, and Takahashi.

Currently, more than a hundred of our specialists are working abroad. It’s like they are working against their own country.

If there is one group that’s not responsible for the current situation – it’s the coaches. They are making their living. Our system is like that. It’s not just the port. Take a long – almost all of our serious scientists are now working in America. It’s about the financing. In our sport, it’s not only up to Piseev, but also up to Russian and municipal laws. Relatively speaking, things are great in Petersburg. The care is modest, but it is felt. In many other cities, it’s way worse than that.
 
Ptichka;243449 (translation) said:
What was happening in the ice dance was despicable. I am talking about how Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin were treated. They should have been up on the podium. The only leaders I like beside our kids are the Bulgarians Denkova/ Stavijski who successfully defended their title. The French team Delobel/ Schoenfelder that I like a lot, skated visible worse than at the recent European championships, where they medaled. I am not even talking about Belbin/ Agosto. Even without being an ice dance specialist, I could see serious mistakes in their free dance. How could they medaled skating like that? Their program appeared to simple to me. This contrasted greatly with the dance of Domnina/ Shabal,n, which had taste, style, and difficulty.
It had style. I'm not sure about taste, and there was a lot of upper body melodrama and a bit of two footed skating in their program.

:banging: about the typical whining about the FD. This is not 6.0, where the FD trumps almost all. Belbin/Agosto had a sizable lead because of their superior OD. Domnina/Shabalin, like Delobel/Schoenfelder, skated worse than they did at Euros in the OD and FD, and they both ended in the same order. This is expected, because Domnina's father died before Worlds, and they missed two weeks of training, not to mention her emotional state.

Ptichka;243449 (translation) said:
Currently, more than a hundred of our specialists are working abroad. It’s like they are working against their own country.
Why do they still keep at this one? The only three coaches who've had any success with skaters who've been competitive with the top Russian skaters are Morozov, Shpilband, and Linichuk, and Linichuk has been successful with Den/Sta, whose previous coach, Gorshkov, brought them to the podium. Where did Gorshkov coach Den/Stas? In Russia! Maybe the press should start moaning about that.

Just about every top Russian coach in the US took free ice time and facilities and dollars from US and European skaters to subsidize their coaching of Russian champions: Tarasova with B/B, K/P, Kulik, Yagudin; Vassiliev with T/M and now with M/T; Moskvina with B/S; Arutunian with Abt; Zhulin with Navka; Linichuk with her Russian stable over the years. Even Mishin subsidizes his skaters through yearly clinics in Europe.

Almost all of those gold medals since the breakup of the Soviet Union were made possible by Russian coaches training in the US or running clinics in Europe. It wasn't the developmental coaches that were able to flee to America, and it's the developmental coaches that train the basic skills that guarantee the future.

Shpilband may be the lone exception; apart from Gruenberg/Rand, he's built up the North American ranks.

End of rant.

Thank you so much for the translation, Ptichka :rock:
 
Last edited:
Why do they still keep at this one? The only three coaches who've had any success with skaters who've been competitive with the top Russian skaters are Morozov, Shpilband, and Linichuk, and Linichuk has been successful with Den/Sta, whose previous coach, Gorshkov, brought them to the podium.
I actually disagree with you there. It's not just about the big names, who have indeed been offered good conditions to come back. I think at issue are the many Russian coaches who do not have the big name recognition, who are training abroad, whereas [in theory] they could have trained Russian skaters instead - as an example, take the coaches (I'm blanking on the names) who have opened the ice dance school to rival Shpilband's in Detroit.
 
But whom are they coaching, and when did they start? Were they in Russia during the rough times? Sounds like they followed the plan of opening a gas station across the street from one that exists.

There's always going to be fallout when the resources are allocated and the hierarchy is established. I wouldn't be surprised to see coaches who stayed in Russia and find they have little place in the New World Order to think about their own futures, especially as the coaches who left while they stuck it out have been received with a red carpet.
 
I thought this was an interesting assesdsment on the men's side.
It’s not a given that our fabulous Zhenya Plushenko would be won in Tokyo. Men’s single skating has made a huge step forward in the past year. It would have been difficult to compete with well-prepared Lambiel, Joubert, and Takahashi.
I definitely hope Plushenko returns next year. Men's will be the most exciting discipline, with or without him.
 
I thought this was an interesting assesdsment on the men's side.I definitely hope Plushenko returns next year. Men's will be the most exciting discipline, with or without him.

That is the possible way to get a definite medal. But I think what they are talking about is Who, and How can the coaches bring up the present Russian skaters.

I do see a lot of talent in Russia but they need good coaches. What is Mishin doing? resting on his laurels with a naturally talented boy?

Joe
 
I do see a lot of talent in Russia but they need good coaches. What is Mishin doing? resting on his laurels with a naturally talented boy?

Joe

Mishin is coach of Andrei Lutai, who finished second at Russian Nationals, 5th at Europeans and was sent to Worlds. He is also coach of Artur Gachinsky, the 13 (or so) year old who people are predicting to be the "next Plushenko" (I don't see it, but whatever). He's certainly not "resting on his laurels", but still coaching, and still with success.
 
Mishin is coach of Andrei Lutai, who finished second at Russian Nationals, 5th at Europeans and was sent to Worlds. He is also coach of Artur Gachinsky, the 13 (or so) year old who people are predicting to be the "next Plushenko" (I don't see it, but whatever). He's certainly not "resting on his laurels", but still coaching, and still with success.
Lutai is one of the Russians I spoke of with talent. Glad Mishin is taking an interest. Who coaches Dobrin. He's another I think with talent.

Joe
 
Lutai is one of the Russians I spoke of with talent. Glad Mishin is taking an interest. Who coaches Dobrin. He's another I think with talent.

Joe

Zhana Gromova--of Irina Slutskaya fame.
 
My hopes are for Ievleva. She had a beautiful SP at Euros. It was something different from the rest of the crop. Unfortunately she isn't able to do the big jumps. :frown:

Is there anyone here who also likes Ievleva??
 
Thank you so much for the links.

They started in Ann Arbor in 1999. Does anyone know if they came from Russia then, or if they'd been in the US doing the same work before then?

They represented Latvia internationally for a while. From what I could find, 1994 Europeans seems to have been their last eligible competition.

Then they worked as performing pro skaters for a few years:

Iaroslava continued skating with Iouri through their professional career as well, which started in 1995 in England touring with the production of The Phantom of the Opera on Ice, and Torvill and Deans *Ice Adventures*. In the USA they performed with the Ice Theater of New York .

Really their background is similar to Shpilband's (junior world medals, touring, then coaching), they're just about a decade younger and their best Junior Worlds result was "only" 2nd. And the world, especially the Soviet Union, changed a lot between the 1980s and the 90s.
 
Do you mean Iaroslava Netchaeva and Iouri Tchesnichenko in Ann Arbor? They coach all of this year's US junior dance medalists.
Thank you. That's exactly whom I meant. I was just too lazy to look it up.
 
Hmmm, I wonder if the difference between them and the older, well-entrenched developmental coaches in Russia is that they toured and made connections, learned English, and found other places they'd like to work.
 
Hmmm, I wonder if the difference between them and the older, well-entrenched developmental coaches in Russia is that they toured and made connections, learned English, and found other places they'd like to work.
Both Tchesnitchenko/ Netchaeva, and Shpilband came here without any expectations. Therefore, they were perfectly willing to train little kids with little potential just to make a living. For coaches like Dubova who have trained World champions it is rather unthinkable to just start coaching whoever comes through the door. I remember reading an interview with Zaitsev (who is, btw, coaching in San Diego); he was saying how difficult it was to start his American career, as in Russia he was given only the talented kids to train, whereas here he had to work with anyone at all. Also, some of the older coaches may have families back home. It's one thing to move to another country when you're young - hey, if you don't like it, you can always move back! - and a very different thing to make the move when you have an established career and reputation, as well as possibly kids and the elderly who need things like medical care to think of.
 
But the Dubovas aren't necessarily the developmental trainers. I mean the hundreds of coaches all around the country that develop the basic skills in young children, like the coach that taught Elena Berezhnaia her stroking technique and made her do stroking after each lesson.
 
But the Dubovas aren't necessarily the developmental trainers. I mean the hundreds of coaches all around the country that develop the basic skills in young children, like the coach that taught Elena Berezhnaia her stroking technique and made her do stroking after each lesson.
While you are right, the irony is that the one thing that Dubova specifically excelled at was giving her skaters phenomenal stroking - no other coach came close. You can sort of see it with Navka, who did come from her school.
 
Back
Top