Proper form for 3L-1/2L-3S

[karlowens2]

I notice skaters doing this differntly.

Wagner - 1.) 3L, land on 1 foot 2.)1/2 Loop - immediate takeoff from the landing foot or previous 3L 3). 3S - Immediate takeoff from landing foot of 1/2 Loop. The non-landing foot makes no contact with ice before the 3S.

Several others - all like Wagner. But in 3.) 3S - the non-landing foot from the 1/2L makes contact with the ice. So for a moment they are on 2 feet. Then the swirl up into the 3S.

Seems like putting that extra foot down stabilizes the skater and makes the combination easier. Which is correct?

 

[Mathman]

Thank you for pointing this out. I can't answer your question, but I did notice at Worlds that there was something about Ashley''s technique that made the combo look a lot cooler than others' -- I just didn't know what it was!

 

[gkelly]

If you put the non-landing foot down, it's not a true combination.

Can you give examples of what the skater did?

Have you looked at the protocol? Was it called as a +1Lo+3S combination or something else?

 

[solani]

I guess it only looks as if the skater put the other foot down on the landing of the loop. Because I remember that Hanyu's combo at the Olympics was invalid because he put the other foot down. But the same foot is allowed to touch the ice when the skater does the salchow take-off, or am I wrong?
Ashleys combo certainly looks very nice!

 

[nolangoh]

I don't remember where I have read this (probably in the ISU Comm) but IIRC, if there is no weight transfer on the free foot while preparing for the Salchow, the combo is valid. I think this applies to solo Salchow too. If there is no weight transfer, it will not be counted as cheated.

 

[karlowens2]

Check these examples. Foot down?

Fernandez 2:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inq5ehmz-TA

Hochstein 3:19. (He starts with a toe pick jump but looks to put foot down on 3S)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inq5ehmz-TA

 

[sarama]

I don't remember where I have read this (probably in the ISU Comm) but IIRC, if there is no weight transfer on the free foot while preparing for the Salchow, the combo is valid. I think this applies to solo Salchow too. If there is no weight transfer, it will not be counted as cheated.

I think you are right!

Anyway this combo often doesn't look any good. I think some skaters do it with odd timing/rhythm, it comes to mind Radionova who waits a lot before the Sal, but there are even uglier ones out there. While if well executed I think they can be appealing, Ashley's is nice (when not badly UR), I remeber liking Rochette's a lot but she used to do 3T-1/2Lo-3S, so maybe a bit easier

 

[sk8hrd]

I think Chartrand puts her foot down as well, but I'm not sure how much weight she puts on it. Some competitions it looks like a lot.

Chartrand 2:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMAS2PqIGNU

It's my least favorite jump of hers.

 

[DexterK]

Javi is putting his right foot down after the half loop. If Javi is using his right foot/blade to stabilize himself before the 3 salchow, wouldn't he also be transferring the most minor of weight?

He is most certainly not performing that half loop 3 salchow the way Wagner and Bonaly perform it.

How does Pogarilaya do the combo, I think it is like Javi as well. If look but I have to run to teach a class. I'll check at lunch. Anyway, ok. Enjoy.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I think it's just with the Salchow technique. Javi and Yuzu typically do it the same. I think it's more a result of the 4S. I remember Stojko in his TSL interview talking about how some guys use the free foot to "skid" the ice to help them get into the air...can't remember the exact words he used. So that technique may just be shifting over to the 3S. But I don't think it is a substantial transfer of weight. If the foot goes down after the 1Lo, I believe it's supposed to be called as X+1Lo+SEQ.

 

[Moxiejan]

With some, especially Radionova, it looks like the skater just steps out of the first jump and into the half loop, without really landing the first jump. It looks more like another jump just tacked on than an intentional combo.

In the case of Wagner (and also Lipinski, who did this combo with triple toe as first jump in her Olympic free skate), there is a distinct hop-hop-hop to the cadence, with the timing about the same for all three jumps. Johnny Weir has described this like "skipping stones" across the ice.

Here is a link to Tara's combos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVQe8r0LQYE

Off topic: At the end of this, her triple loop-triple loop combos are shown. MANY were quite pre-rotated on the second loop.

 

[skylark]

I notice skaters doing this differntly.

Wagner - 1.) 3L, land on 1 foot 2.)1/2 Loop - immediate takeoff from the landing foot or previous 3L 3). 3S - Immediate takeoff from landing foot of 1/2 Loop. The non-landing foot makes no contact with ice before the 3S.

Several others - all like Wagner. But in 3.) 3S - the non-landing foot from the 1/2L makes contact with the ice. So for a moment they are on 2 feet. Then the swirl up into the 3S.

Seems like putting that extra foot down stabilizes the skater and makes the combination easier. Which is correct?

for asking this question. The thread, while short , is instructive and enjoyable to anyone who's noticed this.


Quote from Moxiejan:

With some, especially Radionova, it looks like the skater just steps out of the first jump and into the half loop, without really landing the first jump. It looks more like another jump just tacked on than an intentional combo.

In the case of Wagner (and also Lipinski, who did this combo with triple toe as first jump in her Olympic free skate), there is a distinct hop-hop-hop to the cadence, with the timing about the same for all three jumps. Johnny Weir has described this like "skipping stones"
across the ice.

Ashley's 3Lo*1/2Lo*3Sal was the highest scoring element in the entire Ladies event. Which I think is so cool. And it's so cool that Ashley added this combination only last year, at the advanced age of 23!

 

[Ares]

I think Chartrand puts her foot down as well, but I'm not sure how much weight she puts on it. Some competitions it looks like a lot.

Chartrand 2:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMAS2PqIGNU

It's my least favorite jump of hers.

Her axel technique makes me feel uncomfortable alone, and that being combined with that odd combo makes it even worse (from aesthetical point of view). Not sure either whether that combination should be validated here. Otherwise I like Alaine and her skating, this year she's had two beatiful programs. Shame that she was unable to show her best in Boston.

 

[Mathman]

Does anyone (ladies) use this combination in the short program? 3Lo+1/2Lo+3S and solo 3Lz scores higher than 3Lz+3T and solo 3F. Every tenth counts.

 

[StitchMonkey]

It is not allowed in the short.

I kinda wish it would be allowed so that we could get some more variety and opportunity to make choices in the SP based on preferences.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Does anyone (ladies) use this combination in the short program? 3Lo+1/2Lo+3S and solo 3Lz scores higher than 3Lz+3T and solo 3F. Every tenth counts.

I don't think a skater is allowed to do a three jump combo in the SP.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Then Masha would do her 3z-1lo-3s and get like 12 pts right there alone.