M
MSI83
Guest
Re: Irina did complain about her mark several times.
I too would have had Slutskaya 1st after the SP. Michelle's LP is on par (IMO) withThomas In Calgary in 1988. She looked absolutely defeated in her performance. Kwan is capable of beautiful skating, but for some reason or another her LP's in the Olympicsare never up to the standard (very high one at that) she sets.
Irina also looked nervous before her LP. She didn't fall which I think is why the judges placed her second. Perhaps Slutskaya's camp thought that if she delivered a half way decent program (she did) she would have the gold- based on the overall strength of her two programs.
I personally agreed with Hughes win, even though the quality of her skating isn't as strong as the others. The Olympics are about HITTING, and Sarah did.
I too would have had Slutskaya 1st after the SP. Michelle's LP is on par (IMO) withThomas In Calgary in 1988. She looked absolutely defeated in her performance. Kwan is capable of beautiful skating, but for some reason or another her LP's in the Olympicsare never up to the standard (very high one at that) she sets.
Irina also looked nervous before her LP. She didn't fall which I think is why the judges placed her second. Perhaps Slutskaya's camp thought that if she delivered a half way decent program (she did) she would have the gold- based on the overall strength of her two programs.
I personally agreed with Hughes win, even though the quality of her skating isn't as strong as the others. The Olympics are about HITTING, and Sarah did.
J
Joesitz
Guest
Re: Irina did complain about her mark several times.
I saw Michelle at the Olys as skating two very beautiful routines. She had a fall in the LP and was marked down severely but aside from that she skated one beautiful LP.
Sarah, did have a completely perfect LP. No denying it.
Irina did not have a handle on Tosca THAT night, and I saw nothing special in her performance to give her anything but third in the LP.
I don't know the mathematics in the scoring of LP plus SP, so I think the results should read: SH, MK, IS.
Joe
I saw Michelle at the Olys as skating two very beautiful routines. She had a fall in the LP and was marked down severely but aside from that she skated one beautiful LP.
Sarah, did have a completely perfect LP. No denying it.
Irina did not have a handle on Tosca THAT night, and I saw nothing special in her performance to give her anything but third in the LP.
I don't know the mathematics in the scoring of LP plus SP, so I think the results should read: SH, MK, IS.
Joe
E
Excidra2001
Guest
Re: Irina did complain about her mark several times.
Sarah just hit one program and that's the LP.
Maybe Irina did openly complain about her marks, but is there anything wrong in doing that? Michelle sometimes gives the thumbs down on TV when she receives marks she is not happy with(SLC SP and etc). Maybe she never complained about her marks to the press but giving the thumbs down means that she is not satisfied with what she received.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Michelle VS Irina. But when everyone is criticizing Irina for what has said to the press and at the same time some of her competitiors have also done the same thing but not to the same degree, i'm going to come in and set everything straight.
P.S. Wasn't Sarah Hughes quoted as saying she would've given her SP at the Olympics a 5.9/5.8. What does that tell you?
Sarah just hit one program and that's the LP.
Maybe Irina did openly complain about her marks, but is there anything wrong in doing that? Michelle sometimes gives the thumbs down on TV when she receives marks she is not happy with(SLC SP and etc). Maybe she never complained about her marks to the press but giving the thumbs down means that she is not satisfied with what she received.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Michelle VS Irina. But when everyone is criticizing Irina for what has said to the press and at the same time some of her competitiors have also done the same thing but not to the same degree, i'm going to come in and set everything straight.
P.S. Wasn't Sarah Hughes quoted as saying she would've given her SP at the Olympics a 5.9/5.8. What does that tell you?
E
Excidra2001
Guest
Re: Irina did complain about her mark several times.
Joe,
Michelle not only fell on an important jump but also two footed another, which means the two foot really does not get any credit from the judges. But still the technical marks she received for her LP was still good(5.6 to a 5.
and it would've been enough to edge out Irina had she made mistakes in her LP.
I like a few of Michelle's programs but Schez has got to be her worst free program ever. That program had a few choreography but not the difficult choreography we usually see from Michelle. It was cross-over jump, cross-over spin, stroke a few and here comes the spirals.
Joe Iman stated Michelle's in-betweens in Schez was very weak and I totally agree with him.
There is no way Michelle deserved 2nd for her free-skate, there was just those little mistakes she made through out her routine.
Joe,
Michelle not only fell on an important jump but also two footed another, which means the two foot really does not get any credit from the judges. But still the technical marks she received for her LP was still good(5.6 to a 5.
and it would've been enough to edge out Irina had she made mistakes in her LP.I like a few of Michelle's programs but Schez has got to be her worst free program ever. That program had a few choreography but not the difficult choreography we usually see from Michelle. It was cross-over jump, cross-over spin, stroke a few and here comes the spirals.
Joe Iman stated Michelle's in-betweens in Schez was very weak and I totally agree with him.
There is no way Michelle deserved 2nd for her free-skate, there was just those little mistakes she made through out her routine.
M
mathman444
Guest
Re: Irina did complain about her mark several times.
Never mind.
Never mind.
E
eltamina
Guest
Excidra
"Michelle sometimes gives the thumbs down on TV when she receives marks she is not happy with(SLC SP and etc). Maybe she never complained about her marks to the press but giving the thumbs down means that she is not satisfied with what she received.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Michelle VS Irina. But when everyone is criticizing Irina for what has said to the press and at the same time some of her competitiors have also done the same thing but not to the same degree, i'm going to come in and set everything straight"
Since I am a dual MK and IS fan, I too want to set something straight. BTW, I have never paid too much attention to these Irina quotes, first of all I think things could be misunderstood in translations. BTW, I don't think everyone is criticizing IS, I sure am not.
About MK's thumbs down, I have always thought that she was joking at herself for not performing up to her own standard. She always smiles when she signal that thumbs down. I don't think she was saying judges under mared her or she WUZ robbed. Since the thumbs down is not a verbal response, it is subject to interpretation. You have yours and I have mine, since none of us can get inside her head, I think my interpretation is as good as yours. I think the times when MK truly felt that she was under marked were few and rare. The only time I could think of was the Canadian open thing when she skated clean and was marked behind a flawed Josee. (BTW, I am not arguing about the outcome of the competition either, it was just a fluff competition, and I was glad that Josee won)
About SLC, I totally agree with the judges placement of MK, IS and Sarah in the sp, and lp. From some people who were actually there, they thought MK was more relax and presented her sp better, even though IS sp was flawless. I would have put Sarah 4th and Fumie third in the sp. In the lp, I would have put Sarah first, IS second, MK third and Fumie 4th.
"Michelle sometimes gives the thumbs down on TV when she receives marks she is not happy with(SLC SP and etc). Maybe she never complained about her marks to the press but giving the thumbs down means that she is not satisfied with what she received.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Michelle VS Irina. But when everyone is criticizing Irina for what has said to the press and at the same time some of her competitiors have also done the same thing but not to the same degree, i'm going to come in and set everything straight"
Since I am a dual MK and IS fan, I too want to set something straight. BTW, I have never paid too much attention to these Irina quotes, first of all I think things could be misunderstood in translations. BTW, I don't think everyone is criticizing IS, I sure am not.
About MK's thumbs down, I have always thought that she was joking at herself for not performing up to her own standard. She always smiles when she signal that thumbs down. I don't think she was saying judges under mared her or she WUZ robbed. Since the thumbs down is not a verbal response, it is subject to interpretation. You have yours and I have mine, since none of us can get inside her head, I think my interpretation is as good as yours. I think the times when MK truly felt that she was under marked were few and rare. The only time I could think of was the Canadian open thing when she skated clean and was marked behind a flawed Josee. (BTW, I am not arguing about the outcome of the competition either, it was just a fluff competition, and I was glad that Josee won)
About SLC, I totally agree with the judges placement of MK, IS and Sarah in the sp, and lp. From some people who were actually there, they thought MK was more relax and presented her sp better, even though IS sp was flawless. I would have put Sarah 4th and Fumie third in the sp. In the lp, I would have put Sarah first, IS second, MK third and Fumie 4th.
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Excidra2001
Guest
Re: Excidra
Eltamina, well said.
Eltamina, well said.
M
mathman444
Guest
Re: Objectivity
I have always been impressed by Michelle's ability to view her own performances with objectivity. She never complained about the placements at Salt Lake City because she knew that she had not skated her best. At Nagano, she accepted the opinion of her coach and others that she had skated cautiously and without the fire that informs her best efforts.
In any case, that's water over the bridge. Onward and upward!
Mathman
I have always been impressed by Michelle's ability to view her own performances with objectivity. She never complained about the placements at Salt Lake City because she knew that she had not skated her best. At Nagano, she accepted the opinion of her coach and others that she had skated cautiously and without the fire that informs her best efforts.
In any case, that's water over the bridge. Onward and upward!
Mathman
J
Joesitz
Guest
Re: Excidra
Excidra -
We agree Shez was not MK's best routine.
But, I am not sure we agree that IS's Tosca was such a great routine and certainly it was marred THAT NIGHT.
So, let's just agree to disagree. I do hope we all agree that Sarah Hughes won the contest and deserved to win it.
As for IS comments, they are only her comments and to me it appears she has not gotten over SH's win. Maybe that was what brought her into the slump of 2003. Anyway she skated a beautiful competition right after the Worlds and was greatly undermarked. Everyone agrees on that so no one is trying to put Irina down.
Joe
Excidra -
We agree Shez was not MK's best routine.
But, I am not sure we agree that IS's Tosca was such a great routine and certainly it was marred THAT NIGHT.
So, let's just agree to disagree. I do hope we all agree that Sarah Hughes won the contest and deserved to win it.
As for IS comments, they are only her comments and to me it appears she has not gotten over SH's win. Maybe that was what brought her into the slump of 2003. Anyway she skated a beautiful competition right after the Worlds and was greatly undermarked. Everyone agrees on that so no one is trying to put Irina down.
Joe
M
mathman444
Guest
Re: Shez
About Scheherazade not being Michelle's best routine, being weak in choreographic in-betweens, etc.: I wonder if that program was designed to have a lot more technical content. At Skate Canada Michelle attempted two triple-triples (falling on each), including a triple flip/triple loop, and she also practiced, IIRC, a triple Lutz/triple toe. When these didn't pan out, maybe the program was left looking a little flat.
I have often wondered if that played a role in Michelle leaving her coach. Did Michelle want to push for higher technical content, while Frank thought that she would be better off sticking to what they knew she could do well?
Mathman
About Scheherazade not being Michelle's best routine, being weak in choreographic in-betweens, etc.: I wonder if that program was designed to have a lot more technical content. At Skate Canada Michelle attempted two triple-triples (falling on each), including a triple flip/triple loop, and she also practiced, IIRC, a triple Lutz/triple toe. When these didn't pan out, maybe the program was left looking a little flat.
I have often wondered if that played a role in Michelle leaving her coach. Did Michelle want to push for higher technical content, while Frank thought that she would be better off sticking to what they knew she could do well?
Mathman
L
LAVENDER
Guest
Re: Shez
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>P.S. Wasn't Sarah Hughes quoted as saying she would've given her SP at the Olympics a 5.9/5.8. What does that tell you?[/quote]
That she is off.
Oh and Sherz is Michelle's worst program imho. I’ve never completely liked it. I’m glad it’s gone and I’m sure she is too. I think she kept it because she started off with it but if she could I think Michelle would have skipped it in a heartbeat. That program was Frank’s vehicle and I don’t think that Michelle ever really wanted to skate to it.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>P.S. Wasn't Sarah Hughes quoted as saying she would've given her SP at the Olympics a 5.9/5.8. What does that tell you?[/quote]
That she is off.
Oh and Sherz is Michelle's worst program imho. I’ve never completely liked it. I’m glad it’s gone and I’m sure she is too. I think she kept it because she started off with it but if she could I think Michelle would have skipped it in a heartbeat. That program was Frank’s vehicle and I don’t think that Michelle ever really wanted to skate to it.
