2015 Four Continents Free Dance Feb 13 Seoul time

[Skater Boy]

Yes. They did go out and attack it. So for them. And I think they've finally found some good tech coaching from Scali and probably Charlie White. I'm not even a techie and it's plainly visible. Charlie once said he thought Philip Glass was a good potential source for programs. Do all of us ShibSib fans a favor: find them a really beautiful driving arty Glass piece, cut it for them, and convince them to really go for an arty beautiful FD, like their Coldplay exhibition is this year.

Just sayin'...

I doubt Charlie White is that great of a coach/technician. Just because you are a great skater ; coaching is different. And the odds aren't great. He might be more of an encourager/inspirer/mentor/friend. Still he didn't show huge leadership skills when he competitively skated (though he may come back - doubt it though).

 

[lauravvv]

It's actually their personal best! Their PB was a 100+ scores from one of their senior b's this fall. And I always felt those 100+ scores were suspect because of the field of competition. For them to get 100+ in an ISU championship is huge, IMO.

I think I said it with my second sentence. "seasons's best" + "haven't gotten over 100 before this season" = personal best .

 

[Mrs. P]

I think I said it with my second sentence. "seasons's best" + "haven't gotten over 100 before this season" = personal best .

I probably really need to get out of here and sleep. Sleep deprivation is preventing me from comprehending multiple sentences/clauses or something.

 

[Alba]

I doubt Charlie White is that great of a coach/technician. Just because you are a great skater ; coaching is different. And the odds aren't great. He might be more of an encourager/inspirer/mentor/friend. Still he didn't show huge leadership skills when he competitively skated (though he may come back - doubt it though).

I don't know about the Shibs, but as far as I know the tech specialist with Marina, for the steps, is Margaglio and Scali is more about the choreography.

 

[Skater Boy]

For some reason all three medalist teams had kind of poor costume choices. The guys did not compliment or complement the girls and vice versa. Looked like each couple was wearing non coordinating (not just not matching) costumes. Like Romeo and Juliet with Family guy - just didn't go. For example Weaver and Poje. Yellow does not go with periwinkle. Likewise periwinkle did not do Maia justice and really did not pop against Alex black and white outfit. Madison's outfit also seemed awkard as to length and color against her partner who needs to do something about his hair.

 

[lauravvv]

Nope. Don't put words in my mouth please. The reason why I DON'T like W/P's piece is it feels to me that it wasn't choreographed to the music. It was choreographed to Win. They took a piece which has figure skating's Accepted Seal Of Important Music, even though I don't think it really suits either of them very well. And that whole program feels designed to say how Important it is. Krylova herself won a world program with a similar self-consciously Important FD with the African drums. Maybe I'm a cynical New Yorker, but that's how I feel.

Then what is this music about in your opinion? What should they show in their program to 'Four Seasons'? What image and/or storyline, what kind of emotions? And what suits them in your opinion, if you are so sure that you know it better than themselves and their coaches (people who know them personally)?

 

[WeakAnkles]

Then what is this music about in your opinion? What should they show in their program to 'Four Seasons'? What image and/or storyline, what kind of emotions? And what suits them in your opinion, if you are so sure that you know it better than themselves and their coaches (people who know them personally)?

If I thought you were genuinely interested in an exchange of opinions, then I would be happy to answer your question. But you are now bordering on ad hominem so I will bow out of this discussion.

 

[auser]

Andrew Poje is such a beautiful creation.

I totally agree! While the stream of their FD froze for me early in the program, the slow motion video shots of Andrew later during scoring made up for it

 

[WeakAnkles]

I totally agree! While the stream of their FD froze for me early in the program, the slow motion video shots of Andrew later during scoring made up for it

Add Cizeron to that list as well. In fact, I propose they should do a calendar for us. With at least 114 months to it. At least.

 

[lauravvv]

For some reason all three medalist teams had kind of poor costume choices. The guys did not compliment or complement the girls and vice versa. Looked like each couple was wearing non coordinating (not just not matching) costumes. Like Romeo and Juliet with Family guy - just didn't go. For example Weaver and Poje. Yellow does not go with periwinkle. Likewise periwinkle did not do Maia justice and really did not pop against Alex black and white outfit. Madison's outfit also seemed awkard as to length and color against her partner who needs to do something about his hair.

Weaver/Poje's costumes are not supposed to match. They are supposed to show the different seasons and moods of the program (she is like sun/summer with yellow flowers, he is like winter/overcast sky). Both in yellow or yellow-orange-red wouldn't do that, as wouldn't both in "periwinkle"/bluish tones. As for Shibutanis, a lady can wear an evening dress of any color when going out with a man in a black and white evening attire. As for Chock/Bates, blue and red (or tones close to it) do match + the costumes have obvious matching designs. That said, it doesn't mean that I like them. The black and white costumes actually looked more effective compared to these which have a tendency to blend with the blue and red adds on the boards. Maia's dress is nice, but I don't like how it bunches on the back. I wonder why no one on their team noticed this at Nationals (apparently they didn't, since it has not been fixed). Well, they probably had more important things to pay attention to, like their elements, but still...

If I thought you were genuinely interested in an exchange of opinions, then I would be happy to answer your question. But you are now bordering on ad hominem so I will bow out of this discussion.

No, I really was genuinely interested. There could not be an "exchange of opinions" if I had agreed with your arguments straight away, could there? I agree that the last sentence was probably a bit too harsh. But lately I have been fed up with people apparently feeling like they know what kind of programs suit skaters and their personalities better than the respective skaters themselves.

 

[lauravvv]

Sorry, deleted post.

 

[Alba]

But lately I have been fed up with people apparently feeling like they know what kind of programs suit skaters and their personalities better than the respective skaters themselves.

Laura, I agree with WeakAnkle's view about their program. This doesn't mean we know them better than their coach, leat alone better than they know themselves.
It's our personal impression and perception on the programs and the couples. We do this for all skaters, and not just in FS. This is true for any form of art. There are some programs which click with us and others don't. What's the big deal about it?
People are discussing Shib's FD too. Mostly their fans actually, and WeakAnkles is most critical about it. I really don't see the problem here. It's not a bashing.

 

[lauravvv]

Laura, I agree with WeakAnkle's view about their program. This doesn't mean we know them better than their coach, leat alone better than they know themselves.
It's our personal impression and perception on the programs and the couples. We do this for all skaters, and not just in FS. This is true for any form of art. There are some programs which click with us and others don't. What's the big deal about it?
People are discussing Shib's FD too. Mostly their fans actually, and WeakAnkles is most critical about it. I really don't see the problem here. It's not a bashing.

I don't have a problem with criticism as such. I was just interested in how WeakAnkles viewed this music and what kind of a program should be done to it in her/his opinion. Returning to the criticisms, it's one thing when a program doesn't "click" with the viewer and they say so too, that's completely normal, but another thing is to say that the program doesn't "click" with the skaters themselves. What it actually means in many cases is that the program doesn't match the image of the particular skater/s that the person has created in their mind and/or simply that skaters whom they generally like are doing a program that they don't like. Of course, it can be more complicated than that - like, the skater doesn't have enough musicality (or the right kind of musicality) for the music, the ability to move to that music, or the ability to express the emotions inherent in this music, and so on. In that case it would be nice if the person stating that the music/program doesn't suit the skaters could explain exactly why they think so and what about that music the skaters are not able to express.

 

[Alba]

Returning to the criticisms, it's one thing when a program doesn't "click" with the viewer and they say so too, that's completely normal, but another thing is to say that the program doesn't "click" with the skaters themselves. What it actually means in many cases is that the program doesn't match the image of the particular skater/s that the person has created in their mind and/or simply that skaters whom they generally like are doing a program that they don't like.

Yes, but it is a valid argument. From a fan, public point of view, I think. Skaters do have an image, some styles and programs feels just great, right about them and some don't. Of course not to everybody. It doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. It's just the impression, the feeling they give me with a particular program.

Of course, it can be more complicated than that - like, the skater doesn't have enough musicality (or the right kind of musicality) for the music, the ability to move to that music, or the ability to express the emotions inherent in this music, and so on. In that case it would be nice if the person stating that the music/program doesn't suit the skaters could explain exactly why they think so and what about that music that the skaters are not able to express.

That is true also. In W&P case though it is not about their ability to express the emotions, at least as far as I'm concerned. It is about the program as a whole. As I said, it does have an intricate choreography, transitions, dance holds. So on paper, it has everything you need for a great ID program (a part from the music, but that's my taste ), and yet I don't like it although I do wanted and tried to. It's not about W&P interpretation at all. It's just that I can see all those important elements put together, but I'm missing the harmony, the candor, or better say naturalness of all. I don't know if I'm making sense and you get my point.

 

[islandpaddler]

I adore Kaitlin and Jean-Luc. I love everything about them except I wish she wouldn't do that yeah, we did it thing after the program ends. Their programs really set a mood and I'm still in it as it ends. Her thing with the fingers calls an abrupt halt to it.

 

[FSGMT]

My reaction after seeing Madison and Chock wearing their new costumes: :shocked::disapp: I loved the blac&white so much

 

[beabstress]

My reaction after seeing Madison and Chock wearing their new costumes: :shocked::disapp: I loved the blac&white so much

Yes, I hope they go back to black. And Evan needs to do something different with his hair--the hair gel or whatever it is works OK for the Paso Doble, I suppose, but not for the free dance.

 

[KKonas]

I doubt Charlie White is that great of a coach/technician. Just because you are a great skater ; coaching is different. And the odds aren't great. He might be more of an encourager/inspirer/mentor/friend. Still he didn't show huge leadership skills when he competitively skated (though he may come back - doubt it though).

You say you don’t think Charlie is a leader, but that’s because you don’t know Charlie at all. He leads through quiet authority. I think he'd make a great coach. Granted he is not a brash, in-your-face, loudmouth, but as soft-spoken and mellow as he is, he has been the undisputed leader of the rink where he trained. He also has a lot of influence in the production of the team’s music since he is the one who does the initial music cuts. One day at the rink, I watched him train his mother’s new puppy, (that she was having trouble controlling when she brought the puppy to the rink), to sit and obey in less than 30 minutes during an ice break. Hilarious to watch.

 

[rain]

Nope. Don't put words in my mouth please. The reason why I DON'T like W/P's piece is it feels to me that it wasn't choreographed to the music. It was choreographed to Win. They took a piece which has figure skating's Accepted Seal Of Important Music, even though I don't think it really suits either of them very well. And that whole program feels designed to say how Important it is. Krylova herself won a world program with a similar self-consciously Important FD with the African drums. Maybe I'm a cynical New Yorker, but that's how I feel.

I completely disagree with you. I find this program to be a brilliant expression of the music — more than any other FD out there this year this choreography could not be skated to any other piece of music. To try to claim that it is not choreographed to the music is just not watching the program. And of course it's choreographed to win. Everybody's dance is choreographed to win. This is a competitive sport. But back to artistic merits....I don't think it's self-important or self-conscious at all. I think W/P skate it with freedom that looks totally organic. That said, I doubt I'm going to change you mind. Maybe it's one of those things you either see one way or another.

My benchmark is this: win or lose, I always enjoy watching this piece performed, because it gives me chills down my spine and seems to go by in an instant, leaving me wanting more. I only wish there was more choreography of this callibre.

 

[beabstress]

Lots of disagreement about W/P's FD today! Different strokes for different folks. Probably one thing everyone might agree on, though, is that the teams at the very top, the ones fighting for that gold medal, actually have less freedom in their choices than everyone else. If a team knows it's going to finish, say, somewhere down in the lower half of the top ten, that team can make bolder program choices. Take more of a risk. Choose material that is personally pleasing. The very top teams might like to be bolder, too; but the goal of winning is going to trump that every time. Not to go too off-topic, but look at Olympic Champions V/T. Their programs were designed to help them win, and the programs did just that. Though many people really like this team (myself included), a lot fewer people really loved the bulk of their material. It got the job done. With perhaps the exception of that Masquerade Waltz short program, V/T weren't skating particularly memorable programs.

But back to W/P. Some love their FD, some don't. Whatever our personal feelings about the program itself, I think we would all agree that it's getting them the results that they were looking for. For that reason alone, it's a winner. I'm excited to see what they'll do next season!