Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

[aftertherain]

Last year it was ok, that Lysacek won. He was better than other competitor. But in this one, I think that Plushenko and even Takahashi were better.

PS: I am saying of bad treatment, because I have read a lot of full of hate commnets about Plushy before he started his SP. I read a lot of comments in Russia, and nobody said such things about Lysacek or other skaters. Nobody wanted to see them falling.

I'll agree with you partially on the second comment. There has been a lot of "hate" for Plushenko, but there has also been "hate" for Evan as well, even before the Olympics. And I also think that some reporters may have been misleading in their articles about Plushenko. However, none of us were at the press conferences to verify what Plushenko said or didn't say and to my knowledge, there aren't any videos of it either, so I won't be so bold as to say Plushenko did or did not make those comments.

Man, I wish Daisuke won. =( Maybe we'd have a different argument.

Or maybe not.

 

[screech]

No, it doesn't mean it. Is only in NA, that games ends in disaster. It#s doesn't matter in Europe or Asia, but everything was ok. I think it is a little bit strange, that SLC and now V have scandals in FS. And for Sochi i am sure, that all athletes will betreaten fair. Look at WC in moscow 2005, how friendly crowd was to everybody--> EVERYBODY

This is not a scandal. This is just people having opinions about what they think is the most important aspect of figure skating. And the clear cut answer to the results is that Evan won based on his TES, not the PCS that Plushy has said is not important - he beat him on the jumps, spins and footwork - Plushy's area of expertise. No Evan didn't do the quad, but Plushy wasn't secure on his jumps. He barely hung on to some. If even that one triple axel had been more secure, Plush would be the 2x O's champ. Plush has decent spins, but only 2 of them were level 4s. All 3 of Evans were. Plushy also excels at footwork, but both sequences were level 3s. One of Evan's was a 3, the other a 4.

This is just like what happened in a way when Emanuel beat Plushy at the GPF in 2004 - Plush didn't pay attention to the system and shot himself in the foot. If he had done a 3-jump combo (like he had planned) he would have won.

It's not a scandal. Just like it wasn't a scandal when Jeff won worlds in 2008 by his TES. Just like when Evan won Worlds last year. This is just perfect evidence to show why this sport is not just about jumping. If it was, it would still be in the Summer Olympics and take place in track and field.

Evgeni lost because he thought he was unbeatable.

 

[Smuusik]

Oh boy, though I am not especially happy with the current COP, I would have never believed that Plushenko will (if we forget all the other factors preceding these Olympics - the change in judging etc) lose because he leaves something out of his program. That 1.5 point double loop in his 4-3-2 combination would have granted him a win by an inch.

Ignoring the system doesn't bring any good, no matter what you might think of it...
After re-watching the lp: he really did let it go this time hwell:

 

[chiocciola]

What CoP has brought out?! First it has undermined the artistry and the beauty of the skating, then it has ditched the technical level of the skating. Now there is really not much difference between men's skating and ladies's skating.

I agree with you in this point! It helped to count the components but eliminated artistry and beauty, skaters no longer bring out the image, have no time for that... they need to raise their legs and feet, turn, sit all the time before making every element to get better scores!!! THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES - IT'S GETTING SCORES, NOT SKATING, IT'S MATHS, NOT SKILLS AND ARTISTRY!

Today two different systems faced: 10 years ago with the same skating Plushenko would have definately won, now not... how come..it's just a matter of counting???

What is nice, is that everybody is baffled, and it was caused by Dai's trying a quad and thus this new system has proved to be invalid.

 

[aftertherain]

What is nice, is that everybody is baffled, and it was caused by Dai's trying a quad and thus this new system has proved to be invalid.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say by throwing this comment in there. Can you please elaborate?

 

[screech]

What CoP has brought out?! First it has undermined the artistry and the beauty of the skating, then it has ditched the technical level of the skating. Now there is really not much difference between men's skating and ladies's skating.

I agree with you in this point! It helped to count the components but eliminated artistry and beauty, skaters no longer bring out the image, have no time for that... they need to raise their legs and feet, turn, sit all the time before making every element to get better scores!!! THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES - IT'S GETTING SCORES, NOT SKATING, IT'S MATHS, NOT SKILLS AND ARTISTRY!

I don't necessarily agree that the artistry has gone away. I think it just challenges skaters more. Skaters like Patrick and Dai milk thei rprogram for everything and would probably get 5.9s or 6.0s with programs like what they did here for presentation under the old system. Someone like Plush would deserve about a 5.6 for presentation for what he does (but would get 5.9). It just challenges skaters to find multiple ways to express the music and to use their whole body and to showcase the music in all aspects of the program. Not just in the small breathers they would take in between jumps.

 

[Holdens]

Elvis Stojko is totally right (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/va...ws?slug=es-thoughts021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns).
There are the regress in figure skating. It becomes something like "dance on a sky". I repeat my phrase 2 page ago : How the hell the man, who doesnt know how 2 to do the quad, wins the gold medal.
aftertherain, answer to my post with your awesomness style, like a "I don't even know where to begin because I have no idea what to say to that. or

. Thanks.

 

[chiocciola]

And the clear cut answer to the results is that Evan won based on his TES, not the PCS that Plushy has said is not important - he beat him on the jumps, spins and footwork - Plushy's area of expertise.

EXACTLY!!! HOW COULD THE JUDGES GIVE LOWER GOE TO PLUSHY..THEIR ELEMENTS CAN NOT EVEN BE COMPAIRED. IT'S NONSENCE! THAT'S WHAT PISSES ME OFF!!! PCS NOT TES!

Evgeni lost because he thought he was unbeatable.[/QUOTE]

I REPEAT... HE SAID WINNING A BRONZE WOULD BE A LUCK! I'M STARTING TO THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN A MASS MEDIA WAR AGAINST HIM TO HAVE SUCH A RESULT. IN ALL INTERVIEWS IN RUSSIA, HE ALWAYS GAVE CREDIT TO SKILLS OF THE GUYS AND KEPT ON SAYING...I'M WORKING, I'M TRYING EVERY DAY AND WILL DO WHATEVER I CAN AT THE OLYMPICS.

IT'S SO SAD WHEN PEOPLE PUT **** ON PLUSHENKO FOR NOTHING! ANALIZE SKATING NOT PERSONALITY!

 

[Oscilla]

This is not a scandal. This is just people having opinions about what they think is the most important aspect of figure skating. And the clear cut answer to the results is that Evan won based on his TES, not the PCS that Plushy has said is not important - he beat him on the jumps, spins and footwork - Plushy's area of expertise. No Evan didn't do the quad, but Plushy wasn't secure on his jumps. He barely hung on to some. If even that one triple axel had been more secure, Plush would be the 2x O's champ. Plush has decent spins, but only 2 of them were level 4s. All 3 of Evans were. Plushy also excels at footwork, but both sequences were level 3s. One of Evan's was a 3, the other a 4.

This is just like what happened in a way when Emanuel beat Plushy at the GPF in 2004 - Plush didn't pay attention to the system and shot himself in the foot. If he had done a 3-jump combo (like he had planned) he would have won.

It's not a scandal. Just like it wasn't a scandal when Jeff won worlds in 2008 by his TES. Just like when Evan won Worlds last year. This is just perfect evidence to show why this sport is not just about jumping. If it was, it would still be in the Summer Olympics and take place in track and field.

Evgeni lost because he thought he was unbeatable.

I totally agree with you. I'm not happy with how the results turned out, but I don't think it's the fault of the scoring system. It is imperfect, but it's improving with every season, and I believe it generally greatly improved the quality of skating, especially when you look at junior skaters. The older skaters struggle a bit more, but there's no helping that. All I can say is I wish some of the rules (like wrong edge take-off penalty) were more reinforced earlier, so that the skaters wouldn't grow up wit the wrong technique and be forced to change it now.

Under the current rules the skaters had more or less equal chances... If Plushenko did 3F in his LP, cleaner jumps and higher levels; If Takahashi didn't underrotate 4T and 3F-3T, if Lambiel had 3As and skated more cleanly, If Oda didn't have a shoelace malfunction and wasn't so nervous, if, if.... All of those skaters had a shot at medal, even gold. The competition was quite close this time and no skater was unbeatable. There are some scores that I'm not very happy about, but the skaters who placed below had a chance to place higher, but lost it because of not working CoP well enough, succumbing to nerves or just having plain bad luck. It probably wouldn't be any different under 6.0 - on the contrary, the judges would have had even more freedom to prop up the favourites.

 

[aftertherain]

Elvis Stojko is totally right (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/va...ws?slug=es-thoughts021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns).
There are the regress in figure skating. It becomes something like "dance on a sky". I repeat my phrase 2 page ago : How the hell the man, who doesnt know how 2 to do the quad, wins the gold medal.
aftertherain, answer to my post with your awesomness style, like a "I don't even know where to begin because I have no idea what to say to that. or . Thanks.

Yeah. Okay. Hey, it's your opinion. I'll disagree with you, but it's not like I can tell you your opinion's wrong.

And I honestly think the gold medal could've gone either way so ... have fun with that.

My awesomeness style? Where are all these compliments/sarcasm/insults coming from?

 

[chiocciola]

i'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say by throwing this comment in there. Can you please elaborate?

i'm saying that if dai had not tried a qaud he would have won, but he wanted it to be fair, and evan wasn't being fair.

 

[aftertherain]

I totally agree with you. I'm not happy with how the results turned out, but I don't think it's the fault of the scoring system. It is imperfect, but it's improving with every season, and I believe it generally greatly improved the quality of skating, especially when you look at junior skaters. The older skaters struggle a bit more, but there's no helping that. All I can say is I wish some of the rules (like wrong edge take-off penalty) were more reinforced earlier, so that the skaters wouldn't grow up wit the wrong technique and be forced to change it now.

Under the current rules the skaters had more or less equal chances... If Plushenko did 3F in his LP, cleaner jumps and higher levels; If Takahashi didn't underrotate 4T and 3F-3T, if Lambiel had 3As and skated more cleanly, If Oda didn't have a shoelace malfunction and wasn't so nervous, if, if.... All of those skaters had a shot at medal, even gold. The competition was quite close this time and no skater was unbeatable. There are some scores that I'm not very happy about, but the skaters who placed below had a chance to place higher, but lost it because of not working CoP well enough, succumbing to nerves or just having plain bad luck. It probably wouldn't be any different under 6.0 - on the contrary, the judges would have had even more freedom to prop up the favourites.

I would just like to tell you that I like your comment.

i'm saying that if dai had not tried a qaud he would have won, but he wanted it to be fair, and evan wasn't being fair.

Oh. Okay. I see what you're getting at. I agree on the first part, disagree with the second.

 

[Artistry]

I hated Elvis skating, but I like his editorial tonight. The kind of skating Johnny Weir showed SHOULD place higher. If the system does not promote this type of choreography, it's a bad system, because Johnny's elongated, flowing movements and interpretation/arms/face,etc. were really quite WONDERFUL.
He was feeling the music, not robotically checking off elements one by one like Evan. I'm sorry also that Evan won without a quad.

This sucks. I have a feeling the sport will remain this way now. Ladies will be similar. Why risk a triple axel (Asada), spend all that energy, maybe as a result make a slight mistake on a spin or a footwork sequence, if easier jump combos get equal or (w/GOE) - more points?

I will watch less and less. To me, the scoring after Canadians whined and the system was changed is much more subjective and absurd, only masquerading as 'objective' after 2002. Too bad.

I especially feel bad for Johnny's PCS. Watch Evan's face during most of his program and tell me - did he deserve his PCS scores?

 

[Alatariel]

Ok the board crashed last night and I was so depressed that I went to bed.

I am gutted Evan Lysacek won. I don't think I can quite express how gutted. I don't even want to talk about it really. Skating is not dead, but it's gone down the drain. A mediocre skater with inflated scores for an Oly champion. Disaster.I won't even start with the N.America comment, my stomach rolls every time I think of any games there these days.

Plushenko lost it on his own. I said it before the competition started, I will say it again - two quads, better TES and he would have had it, all the judging bull aside. I think he simply cannot do it any more hence what we saw.

Dai - this is my Olympic champion. Hats down dear boy for everything you've done. Congratulations on trying the quad even though it was a slim chance and then pulling it together and skating beautifully. Well done. Forget the twits.

Horrible, horrible, terrible night. Evan as a Champion with that performance last night makes me vomit.

 

[screech]

Just re-watching Patrick's skate...

He had footwork or some form of transition into almost every jump, but he also had some 'simple' presentation, like doing a spread eagle on the big beat. When is the last time under this system that a male skater (other than Jeff) has taken the time to do a move in the field in that respect? And he moves across the ice with such ease!

I still think it is one of the most beautifully constructed programs I've seen in years.

 

[chiocciola]

Dai - this is my Olympic champion. Hats down dear boy for everything you've done. Congratulations on trying the quad even though it was a slim chance and then pulling it together and skating beautifully. Well done. Forget the twits.

THAT'S WHAT I FEEL AS WELL!!! On everything you said!

When back in Solt Lake City they robbed gold from Slutskaya...giving her 5,6 for artisitic impression, some wealthy man made a golden duplicate and presented it to Irina. Nevermind what they did, you deserved it. That's what they should do in Japan to Dai)))

 

[TT_Fin]

Hey, how are 3-2-2 scored compared to 4-3? Quite many men did the 3-2-2 and I think 4-3 should be more valuable, but is it? I had sometimes also the feeling that this reminds much the ladies competition.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Kozuka has displayed remarkable skating in the past, and some of that still remains. But he was once again hobbled by a program so utterly wrong for him. Even though what he was skating to was practically muzak, the post-rock ouerve still demanded more wildness and abandonment than Kozuka put in. In fact, Kozuka's movements were heistant and timid. His edging and footwork are great, but from the waist up, he was juniorish. The choreography and music are completely unsuited to him, and that can't help but be reflected in some of the PCS.

P.S. Best speed and edging still goes to Chan.

No, you are completely incorrect in every way possible. His program was excellent and suits him very much. It has longing and yearing and he expressed that very well. His movements definitely have abondonment. Kozuka just needs to work on his facial expression. That part of his performing is timid but otherwise he is excellent.

Chan didn't have the best speed and edging. Chan's edges were a bit tenetative, in fact. Not the same quality as he was showing last year. Chan didn't interpret the music that well either. No way he should have placed over Kozuka, in either segment of the competition.

 

[aftertherain]

...giving her 5,6 for artisitic impression, some wealthy man made a golden duplicate and presented it to Irina. Nevermind what they did, you deserved it. That's what they should do in Japan to Dai)))

I think something similar happened to Kurt Browning after he failed to even medal in the '94 Olympics.
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT3iuBFZTVE

 

[screech]

Still re-watching (so glad I recorded the event). I think that Czech Buttle should hire Original Buttle as a choreographer for next season. And as a costume consultant (Original Buttle never would have worn a sparkly salmon/pink sweater vest over tan pants - the vest probably would have been blue or red).