Chan thinks it's time figure skaters got unionized

[let`s talk]

Part of me understands how he thinks of/values this World Team Trophy in his mind, because many skaters would feel the same way more or less. However, on behalf of all participating skaters, their coaches, refrees, tech speciallists, judges and other ISU offiicials/members, all the volunteers and audience, I would have appreicated if he could have showed more sympathy when referring to Menshov's injury and picked up another words to express his feelings other than calling it 'a stupid competition'...Scott last year and now this. As much as I love their skating and there is no denying they are among the greatest skaters, but what they say sometimes break my heart, take away joy and my love for skating... I normally avoid myself from leaving a comment in the thread/topic like this one, but I just couldn't help it, right after I had such wonderful time at the said competition. Sorry.

Why did you put your reply to him in tiny letters? I don't see any tiny letters where he calls you stupid. Of course you are stupid, who came to a stupid event, contributed your stupid time and paid your stupid money from your stupid pocket. So am I. Only the money that Patick got from our pockets, mine and yours including, for butting the ice 4 times somehow is not stupid. What else a jerk is for.

I laughed at those comments where people suggested that ISU might not like his talk and will come up with the paypack. No way. ISU crowned this naked king and now they can't afford to make fools of themselves. Patrick knows it very well. That's why he speaks insulting trash knowing that he is an untouchable holy cow of ISU. With PChan ISU got trapped themselvs. He became a detrimental project long time go. Thanks to overscoring him ISU lost a good deal of fans and the reputation of this sport in general. But if they start scoring him as he desrves, it would mean that before they were doing everything wrong. And PChan would say that his new score is just a revenge, i.e. will make a martyr of himself. Don't worry. Patrick will be fine. Which is pretty disgusting as his persona apriori.

he did speak the truth.

I agree with you. He indeed spoke the truth when he spoke of himself as an Olympic champion.

I refuse to believe that someone with any idea of sportsmanship and basic human honesty can defend or support such a nasty individual.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I wouldn't be surprised if some judges subconsciously punish Chan by way of lower GOE and PCS scores - not that they'd admit to it or anything. Besides, as much as I admire his skating, if I was a judge, I'd knock him down a few pegs for his hotheaded comments.

You are an awful "judge"! I don't think the real judges would do that as much as you wished them to.

Patrick Chan has a huge Red Flag next to his name on Cinquanta's "To Do List"

So what?! Plushenko has the same red flag too. It's not like that Cinquanta could do something to Patrick's scoring next year, unlike Inman. By the way, Patrick was raging at ISU, not raging at the judges. There is a difference.

The way of forcing skaters to skate at WTT is awful. It's quite clear that ISU wants to ensure that it is an all-star fun event under the pressure of big money machine Japan and Japanese Federation. WTT should have been treated like the world in Olympic years. So skaters could have the option for not attending it.

All things said, I do not like Patrick's skater union idea. And he is really taking too much to himself which is unnecessary to say the least. It is for sure that there is a lot to be desired in the way whenever he opens his mouth.

 

[Mathman]

Well, TV is not interested in televising "no name" competitors. (I did work in TV for 10 years.) So ultimately ISU would lose $$$$ and so would the skaters as the ISU would eventually have to cancel the GP series and who knows how it would effect figure skating at the OWG and the prospect of skaters having any post Olympic career.

I would hope that top ranked skaters like Patrick Chan would take this into account. I would also hope that Chan would take into account the fact that if he withdrew that would adversely affect the chances of his teammates to win prize money. Still, the ISU does not own these skaters. I do not see by what authority they can dictate that a skater must skate when and where he is told to. "It is good for our bottom line" is not a sufficient excuse for trampling on peoples' rights to make decisions about their own lives.

Plus, I do not think that live attendance or television revenue at the recent Japanese event would diminish by a single seat or yen if Patrick stayed home and a Canadian of lesser accomplishment skated in his place. In fact, had that happened, Japan might have finished second instead of third.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the World Team Trophy will lose a million dollars if Chan does not participate. Simple -- pay him half a million to show up, a la Michelle Kwan at 2002 Skate America.

 

[demarinis5]

I feel that Patrick could have said what he wanted to say, free speech and all, without the insulting comments.

He has a right to voice his opinion but some of the quotes especially the "stupid" one sounded very crass and immature IMO,
also his comments about Menshov.

That said this reporter is known for twisting words so that her articles border on sensationalism. Why do skaters
continue to be interviewed by her?

Please do not put the label of "haterz" or "basher" on me for disagreeing with some of Patrick's comments in this article. Free speech and all.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Why did you put your reply to him in tiny letters? I don't see any tiny letters where he calls you stupid. Of course you are stupid, who came to a stupid event, contributed your stupid time and paid your stupid money from your stupid pocket. So am I. Only the money that Patick got from our pockets, mine and yours including, for butting the ice 4 times somehow is not stupid. What else a jerk is for.

It's still stupid!

Can't understand why you want your money to be put into the pocket of a skater whom you have hated to the bone?! Had Chan stayed at home, your money would have gone into the pocket of another skater which will not be stupid.

 

[Sk8Boi]

Please explain to me in DETAIL how any response to this interview that totally disagrees with Patrick Chan can be written in a "politically correct" way that suits this forum and its members?

My response, even when "PC" can still provoke quite a response. I personally think Chan is wrong, wrong and wrong. I think his personality shown in interviews like this is detestable. I find him disagreeable. I find his personality to be as unattractive as his interviews.

How many words must I come up with to express my opinion, which is as valid as anyone else's? My opinion is that Patrick Chan's interview responses here make him look like a poor sportsman and a total &*%$. Just MHO, Chan is always showing himself in interviews to be a &*%$.

 

[gkelly]

As quoted by DiManno in this article, Chan comes across as self-centered and self-serving. That's Patrick Chan, that's the way he tends to present himself and how many articles tend to skew his comments. So the discussions turn into discussions of his personality and his apparent sense of entitledness.

Too bad the article doesn't really address the question of a union for skaters. That would be a much more interesting discussion than the personality of one particular skater.

What would it look like if skaters formed an organization to protect their professional interests? Which skaters would it represent -- only those who are high enough ranked internationally to be required by ISU rules to participate in certain ISU events? All international-level skaters? Some intermediate subset?

What issues should such an organization address?

Considering that many top-level competitors are minors, would they also be able to have a say?

 

[ranjake]

Great point. I follow Jeremy Abbott on FB- and it seemed as if WTT really meant a lot to him; and that he greatly appreciated the event, Japan, and the fans' support.

 

[Mrs. P]

As quoted by DiManno in this article, Chan comes across as self-centered and self-serving. That's Patrick Chan, that's the way he tends to present himself and how many articles tend to skew his comments. So the discussions turn into discussions of his personality and his apparent sense of entitledness.

Too bad the article doesn't really address the question of a union for skaters. That would be a much more interesting discussion than the personality of one particular skater.

What would it look like if skaters formed an organization to protect their professional interests? Which skaters would it represent -- only those who are high enough ranked internationally to be required by ISU rules to participate in certain ISU events? All international-level skaters? Some intermediate subset?

What issues should such an organization address?

Considering that many top-level competitors are minors, would they also be able to have a say?

The problem is that technically these skaters are not "professional." They are consider amateurs despite being in elite competition. So even before discussing unions, I think a discussion of what is considered amateur vs. professional also needs to be discussed.

The ISU's take on skaters I think is very similar to the take by the NCAA to colllege basketball players. That's why you see a lot of "one-and-dones," that is college students who go pro after just a year in college. The restrictions the NCAA puts on its players (and rightfully so , it is a collegiate-level competition) has led people to decide to go professional sooner than later.

So I think it's hard to make a case for a union when by all current definitions skaters aren't considered "professional" to begin with.

ETA: Are speed skaters also seen as amateurs as well?

 

[gkelly]

Good points, Mrs. P. I was going to ask, is "union" really the right word to use in this context, but I guess I edited that out before posting.

I would expect speedskaters are also considered amateurs. Or "eligible skaters" -- but I doubt there are outside organizations looking to hire speedskaters to race outside the context of ISU competition.

I would expect that they can now coach for money while still maintaining eligibility, which would not have been the case ca. 30 years ago or more.

 

[phaeljones]

Good points, Mrs. P. I was going to ask, is "union" really the right word to use in this context, but I guess I edited that out before posting.

Some type of association, or some group, maybe even within the ISU as an advocate (like an ombuds(wo)man) for skater's interest, would not be a bad idea. The organization to set up an association or an advocate for skater's rights (such to be able to refuse to skate while injured, to be able to refuse to skate certain events, to be able to prevent ransom demands re future royalties, to prevent exploitation, whatever) should exist. Most (not all) of these skaters are kids who have limited life-outside-skating experience. The drive to form such an association, one would think, if it is going to come from anywhere would be either from ISU reacting to political pressure or from some group formed by former skaters or benign sponsors with means, ie somewhere outside of those who are actually skating (even though the organization is formed to represent their interests). But it is a good idea.

However, really, given the tenor of Mr. Chan's statements, he is not advocating on the basis of a collective as much as he is for someone to do something for him. To him, that is all that matters (ie himself). If there is going to be a drive to form an association, union or an office of ombudsman at the ISU, it is going to have to come from another source. Hopefully that will happen.

 

[noskates]

I haven't read all the comments in this thread but have an opinion. I think Patrick could have used better words and a little more discretion but I cannot fault the intent. To be almost forced to go to the World Team competition for what seems like a blatant attempt to make money for the organizers is wrong. The effort for a world-class skater(s) to prepare for Worlds, the Grand Prix competitions and each country's National competition is demanding physically and emotionally. It would seem to me that everything after Worlds would be anti-climactic (unless of course you didn't skate at Worlds like Abbott) But to make it clear (tacitally) that if you don't skate in this competition you'll have to give up something else is not right! So in that I agree with Patrick. And this may definitely not be in line with what alot of you are saying, but I don't think Patrick is full of himself so much as just plainly not good in interviews. He wouldn't be the first or the last skater to put his toe-pick in his mouth when being interviewed. However, I didn't feel that Patrick was just speaking for himself or wanting somebody to do something just for him. I think he's getting beaten up pretty good in this thread.

And lastly, I don't really give a rat's butt what any of them say in interviews - it's how they skate that matters to me.

 

[Mathman]

They should have sent Rogozine. Then none of this would have happened.

 

[chuckm]

With Rogozine, Canada would have placed 3rd, behind Japan. And Chan would be the goat.

 

[plushyfan]

I'm curious, what was the reaction of the other skaters? Does anyone have this information?

 

[Mathman]

With Rogozine, Canada would have placed 3rd, behind Japan. And Chan would be the goat.

Is that good or bad?

 

[dorispulaski]

If there were a skater's union, then there would be collective bargaining between the skaters' union & the ISU, and a resultant contract. In which case, given the importance that the ISU places on the WTT, the result would be a contract that would require top skaters to compete there. In that alternate universe, I strongly suspect that Meryl & Charlie and Tessa & Scott would have had to skate WTT as well as Patrick, unless they had an iron clad doctor's excuse.



Patrick seems to be a bit naive about unions and contracts.

 

[let`s talk]

It's still stupid!

Can't understand why you want your money to be put into the pocket of a skater whom you have hated to the bone?! Had Chan stayed at home, your money would have gone into the pocket of another skater which will not be stupid.

I didn't want my money to be put in the pocket of the skater who doesn't earn it fair and squre. That is presicely what I am talking about. It's a normal move of a human nature to believe that the justice will be done. You just don't know that. Or using your Patrick's word it's "stupid" enough of his defenders to keep embarassing themselves by claiming that his wins are fair if you yourself just said that his appearance alone automatically guarantees that the prize money will go to his pocket.


Moir, Chan, S/P in SLC. It can't be a coincidence. Must be some cultural thing that make them sore losers who can't lose with grace.

 

[phaeljones]

If there were a skater's union, then there would be collective bargaining between the skaters' union & the ISU, and a resultant contract. In which case, given the importance that the ISU places on the WTT, the result would be a contract that would require top skaters to compete there. In that alternate universe, I strongly suspect that Meryl & Charlie and Tessa & Scott would have had to skate WTT as well as Patrick, unless they had an iron clad doctor's excuse.

Patrick seems to be a bit naive about unions and contracts.

Very true. The same rules would apply to everyone in the collective.

Whether a union, an ombudsman, an association, or a bill of rights for skaters is a good idea (and it is worthy of discussion), when one really looks at what Patrick is asking for, he is (typically) just talking about what is better for himself. He wants special treatment. The drawing of the union issue out, as to what it would really entail, how it could be practically implemented and what effect it could have, was a result of an intelligent ignoring of the intent and spirit of the speaker.

Basically, Chan didn't just skate bad in Japan, he lost. When he loses, all grace goes out the window. That basically is what the article says in a nutshell.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes-I very much doubt that the collective skaters' union would push for a contract that made life easier for Patrick Chan. Some guesses of what they probably would be interested in:

1. More money for gala appearances at ISU events
2. More money (if there even is any at all now) for skaters who have competed at ISU championships who compete at Senior B's
3. Healthcare insurance of some sort (although perhaps only US skaters would be interested in this) and maybe dental care insurance?
4. Fairer judging arrangements

I would guess that most members of the collective WTT, since it pays well even for skaters who don't skate well, since you are paid by your team's finish rather than your own. I would bet a cookie that most skaters would trade off even more compulsory appearance rules for WTT to get some other things.