2014 Olympics Short Dance

[BlackPack]

Speaking of Meryl's costume... it's inspired by this http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/audrey-hepburn/images/11216563/title/audrey-fair-lady-photo

The result is endless mockery by fans. Really, it should have been white lace or chiffon if she wanted the Fair Lady look. Too many sequins and too pink.

 

[ice coverage]

Petri Kokko ‏@coccco 11 hrs
@kwanette Timing, crispness and character. Davis and White were brilliant in the team event, but not tonight.

This tweet (the only one from Kokko not posted earlier in the thread, I believe) was a reply to the following question:

kwanette ‏@kwanette

@coccco What was the difference between the 2 teams in the Team event vs today's SD. #youretheexpert
https://twitter.com/kwanette/status/435143206926155776​

Maia is very demure, a clear introvert. She's the exact opposite of Madision Chock. I think the challenge for her is learning to stand out. She doesn't need to be a diva, but I hope she can learn to be more bombastic in her expression.

I do think the Michael Jackson FD, is helping her do that to some extent. But there's a lot of room (and opportunity) for growth.

I also think Alex needs to do a better job presenting her. He is SO extroverted and you can tell he loves to perform, but I think sometime he overshadows Maia, which isn't a great thing in ID.

ETA: P.S. I realize I said I wasn't going to be in this thread...but I can't help but want to answer questions.

Here's the thing, Meryl seems quite reserved and introverted. In fact Maia and Meryl have very similar personalities, which probably why they get a long while Alex and Charlie are the goofballs of the their pairs.

So the perception of a lack of chemistry between Meryl and Charlie probably isn't so much that there wasn't so much the fact they lack chemistry but perhaps that it wasn't well expressed on Meryl's part.

But I think Meryl has learned to perform, thanks to some great programs that forced Meryl to perform.

I'm hoping maybe something like that will happen with Maia. And yes, they get some interesting programs that help her get there.

LOL #1: You have met all the ice dancers in the flesh, Mrs. P, and I have not ... but in off-ice videos, Maia and Meryl do not strike me as introverted at all. Demure, yes. And maybe not quite as extroverted as their partners. But not introverted. Maia and Meryl seem so pleasantly self-confident and poised -- comfortable with answering any question, with bantering and laughing freely, etc. (Side comment: I think the chemistry btwn Davis and White comes across better in their interviews than in their programs. :think

I hope that Maia does not go so far as to model her on-ice expression after Chock's, which is too hammy for my taste. (I do not think you were suggesting that Maia should.)​

LOL #2: "I can't help but want to answer questions." One of the many reasons that we love you, Mrs. P.

 

[ozmodiar]

Their SD lift (D/W) was not as difficult as others though. She was never inverted, there was no change in position, and his hand was holding up her leg to maintain the split. It was very quickly rotated and looked clean, but any elite ice dance team with a flexible woman that can do the splits could probably execute that lift (likely not as well though).

Not that I know much about ice dance, but Meryl and Charlie's lift had faster and probably more rotations which might count as difficult features.

 

[CocoChanel]

I think someone "official" needs to clarify the marks for V/M and why they were marked down just because of the media aspect. If it becomes too much of an issue, then the IOC might figure this is the last straw and simply remove ice dance from the Olympics. I think they were close to doing that back in 1998?

And lo and behold...this is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to - via the Los Angeles Times:

"If the International Skating Union had the slightest public relations sense, it would bring out a judge to help everyone understand the reason for the difference in those scores since the ice-dancing are the least comprehensible of any in the sport.

But for a few self-appointed experts, everyone is left to slog through a miasma of numbers and fall back on conspiracy theories, like the reported deal that had US and Russia colluding to assure the US won gold in dance and Russia in the team event and pairs.

That obtuseness winds up doing a disservice to whoever wins."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olymp...-dance-20140217,0,3035363.story#axzz2tZGYlnl0

The ISU needs to stay ahead of this type of stuff for once.

 

[szidon]

This is exactly how I feel. I don't necessarily see their skate as 'clinical' as there is some level of expression. But when I watch D/W, I feel like I am watching skilled skaters doing well-executed tricks on the ice. When I watch V/M, I feel like I am watching dancers who happen to be on skates. They don't skate - they glide. And the nuances of their performance are astounding - very tilt of the head means something, the expressiveness of Tessa's hands and fingers.... not to mention the lines, the extension, the carriage. To me D/W don't quite have those qualities, and that detracts from their performance. Though I will admit that they have improved in that regard, and today's OD had that in parts. But it' not sustained, and so while I can appreciate their skill, they don't mesmerize me or make me feel anything.

And I get that this is a sport, and therefore technical skill is important. But this is also dance, and it seems to me like right now, the dance elements are not getting suffciently credited. It's not like Tessa and Scott don't have skill and difficulty - they may have lost a point on one of their levels, but to me, those other qualities they exhibit should have more than made up for that point. The fact that D/W got higher PCS really leaves me scratching my head.

Absolutely right.

 

[WinterLily]

Absolutely agree with you, golden411

Heartily disagree with your opinion. My opinion: Scott is NOT in Tessa's shadow. With Virtue/Moir, it's about both partners.

"Frantic" is a negative quality for ice dance, IMO. Have never understood why some consider it a positive quality.



Disagree.



Disagree. LOL, "bland" and "mechanical" are how I would describe Davis/White's ice dancing. I respect them, but I enjoy watching Virtue/Moir far more.

 

[sisinka]

I was curious how objective your assessment would be after all your previous "objective" posts. Sorry, but given how tense and stiff Bobrova and Soloviev were today, regardless of their error on the twizzles, I believe your comment shows you’re not at all objective towards them. You’re a big B/S fan, and that's perfectly fine by me. But don't call yourself an objective analyst. They were bad today and were massively, massively held up regardless of their poor performance.

And your objectivity to me is…well, surprising.
I am fan of dancing.
All your attempts to put me into group of I&K fans / B&S fans, or I&K likers / I&K not likers are adorable. But you know whole world is much more bigger than all I&K banners.

And now close your eyes, relax and try to imagine a world of ice dancing where…somebody matches most of ice dancing qualities and somebody not. If I point somebody who matches it, I would start with V&M, continue with P&B, B&S, W&P and partly also D&W and C&L. If I point somebody who doesn’t match most of ice dance qualities, I&K are those ones and their example comes immediately because from all those couples not matching most of ice dancing qualities they are the ones with the biggest points. Why to play that it is just battle of I&K and B&S?

You find Bobrova stiff but you didn’t notice Lena’s stumble? And supporting couple without feeling of the rhythm and with simple programs and put them ahead all other four teams who keep the rhythm and have difficult and dancy programs is not held up from judges or from you? Objectivity, Frenchie?

As to B&S, the twizzles were not synchro, the rest was great. Loosing levels and not getting other components, it was judges decision. Posture of Bobrova was better than last time, but still needs to improve. It doesn’t mean that you have to appreciate couple like they are, it doesn’t mean that I find her posture perfect as well. I didn’t describe technical side of any program, why? To start another I&K comparison with other teams who can dance and who respect dancing requirements? Getting bored of it. I spend some time to say why I don’t appreciate couples like I&K and why I appreciate other teams – at least six other top teams. If really after all of this, the only thing which stayed in your mind is Bobrova, well, I was loosing time to explain you my minds.

But back to topic…I don’t want to loose such dancers like V&M and P&B, also C&L, stay for next seasons, pleeeeeeeeeease!!!!

 

[karne]

I don't know anything about dance but I preferred D/W.

Of course, I loved Dani and Greg more.


Roy and HG liked D/W too. They thought Dani and Greg's twizzles were better too.

 

[machin]

I'm not a fan of either team but tonight more than ever, the difference of level was crystal clear. There's no way D/W should have won. They are worlds apart from the canadians when all skate like this. At the very least, I would switch the scores. But really, I would have them in 4th.

One thing I never understood about D/W's SD is the music. I don't remember what the requirements were here but there's no jazz, foxtrot or quickstep feeling to it. I always wondered why it was seen as a great progam (as a SD on this rythm). It's usually a big and important part when the judges gives the marks.

You'd say I'm biased but I love P/B, and I don't throw them unnecessary flowers usually. I hated their OD at the begining of the season, even after seeing it live. For the same reasons as I dislike D/W OD plus technically it seemed a bit empty in some places (unlike the US team). But they totally got me during the team event and once again in the SD. This is perfect now ! Character, best twizzles by fabian in major competition since long, flow, and a bit of their touch, just spot on. Second for me, mainly because of higher PCS marks than what they got. But still very good scores and quite close from reality.

As everybody else, happy I/K finally start to solidify their number one ranking in Russia and skate great (praying for the FD). Given how ice dance works we already have our 2018 olympic champions I fear, I hope they will deserve it on the ice. Their placement is fair I'd say, maybe a bit of bonus in the marks because of the location but not much.

B/S... well, not their best skate and their general weaknesses are still obvious. This program is close to the best they could produce though. It has the feeling but not the technical level. She's sometimes painfull to watch but funnily enough, watching live the first time, at one point my streaming frooze on them during the warm up and... she was actually in a better position than him ! I almost thought it was the end of the world. It happened during the non touching step sequence I guess. Way overated. As usual.

C/L, with a visible bobble I thought their scores were quite high. Nice program but she's also painfull to watch, even though hiding it well behind her stunning beauty. Still think they are overated. Weakest european champions ever.

W/P, find them overated also in this place and FSU. He's truely great but she's not there yet. I still remember everybody thought their 2012 FD was so wonderful etc, but sorry, skating the mouth wide open the whole program and/or with angry eyebrows doesn't make good interpretation at all. They clearly didn't understand the lyrics, or I hope so. A bit like Tanith Belbin's perkiness before Linichuk.
I still would have put them in front of the Italian and Bobrova Soloviev because the program is nice and the spirit was there and IMO they are overall better than both other teams. One of the first time I found them a bit underated.

S/S, frankly enjoyed it. Skated very well compared to other years, would have them a bit higher even though there's some technical little things that bugs me.

Loved the germans (don't throw things at me) but really don't really know what to do with them placement wise. UK is as almost always, overated. Loved Z/S, would have had them switching with Coomes Buckland.

The spanish were great as usual ! Hope they do a perfect performance in the FD, they have such a good program. Their OD isn't bad either. Lots of progress for them the last four years, nice to see. Oh, also, the turkish team was killed. A bit disapointed not to see Gilles Poirier here, they would have done well.

The ISU needs to stay ahead of this type of stuff for once.

It's a topic made up by NA journalist to sell paper and answer to their bitterness but also one way to lobby. I thought it would stop once they would be at the top of all the podiums but no, only for short, now the appetites are even more eager and the war started again, except it's not very cold anymore for ice dancing.
Nagano and SLC "scandals" killed they sport and were totally NA journalist's fantasy going wild. Tracy Wilson on Grishuk Platov is telling. They even made people think Riverdance & Grease Lightning were good progams and OGM worthy ! Never explained why Bourne Kraatz were 5th in the first compulsory or that their OD was more deserving 9th than 4th.
Then when B/S outskated S/P it started all over again and this time they totally went crazy and linked the russian's victory to A/P's even though the FD placements showed there was no deal made at all.
Let's not talk also how much G/P were vilified all they career long starting on the moment they deservingly beat Torvill Dean in Lillehammer. Much of the russians/USSR skaters (with some notable exception ala GG) were representing basic evil and thus all their placements were bought...

Of all this, I heard only about SLC at the time when it happened. I can see them being bigger topics in UK but not so much for the rest of Europe and not at all for Russia.
Surprinsigly there were no rumors in 2006. Maybe the deal done in Moscow the year before shutted them all up. And don't tell me Vancouver wasn't about politics though the rightfull winner got gold.

As a result, only the genius skaters now can show some artistry and ice dance is dead as showed the results yesterday. It's dead because COP made it another sport. Call it whatever you want but remove those stupid names. Speed skating in costumes or tricks and dress. Also Free Dance is just .

People always say it was so boring under 6.0 except for the last groups. It can be right for some events at Euro (ladies specially) but not so much after 1990. Overall, it was highly entertaining ! that's why we had huge TV ratings.

For exemple, my favorite ice dance competition is 1997 Euros with a close second for 1999. Both ice dancing event were breathtaking. Every team, even the low ranked one had plenty of character, various interpretations, choreography fitting the theme and music, in a few words, despite being lesser skater they could bring something. You should see how Merzova could light an audience with her hairs and divatitude despite her 17th place finish.

Now there's not enough time between the elements to do unless you can make the rules disapear by your talent. This is the bar that was put higher by COP. Everybody can't entertain as much as before. They either don't care because it's not rewarded or can't do both as KVDP admitted. In ice dancing the level dropped quickly. 2005, 2006 and specially 2007 Euros were disastrous in that way for the low ranked teams.

Another exemple, in pairs, I had to wait Pang Tong at the 2010 Olys and Pina to see a LP at the same level of artitry as was Meditations. Pina was truely special because IMO it was even harder than Meditation on the technical side. It was a long wait. Hopelly, S/S and a few others produced wonderful SP (even M/T had one !) before that point. I think COP can be great for SP in pairs, but it definitely doesn't work for the LP.

 

[Totentanz]

That seemed like a really low score for the Turks... The audience sems to agree, what with the booing.

But at the same time I'm so excited for Dani and Greg!!!! Go Aussies!!

I like the Turks! :agree:

I thought the turks looked more like an ice dance team

I agree with this!

Thank you so much guys! They are really disappointed with the score but they are happy to see the positive reaction from the crowd and from you.

Alper has been an ice dancer for 5 years, and he teamed up with beautiful Alisa only 4 years ago. It's just amazing that they came up to olympic level just in 4 years. I hope they will continue competitive skating and improve on some aspects.

Results and numbers aren't the whole meaning of the sport. They performed one of their best and at least we are happy for that!

 

[Skater Boy]

V/M skated beautifully and i don't understand why they lost a level in the finnstep. Its their best performance this season. As said before they have so many layers to their skating and so much detail, character and expression in the way they relate to each other. A finnish article http://www.aamulehti.fi/Urheilu/119...maksoiko+finnstep+kanadalaisille+kullan+.html explains Rahkamo was to disagree with the jury. Petri Kokko ‏@coccco 13h
Hope @Virtue_Moir wins. Americans timing off in the #finnstep and restrained even otherwise.Petri Kokko ‏@coccco 13 hrs
I don't understand the judging in #icedancing. @Virtue_Moir should be leading in my honest opinion. #finnstep
Petri Kokko ‏@coccco 11 hrs
@kwanette Timing, crispness and character. Davis and White were brilliant in the team event, but not tonight.

D/W have speed, lightness in their skating and make it look easy but don't see why this elevates them above V/M who have more depth and dancing ability, as well as better timming in this.I/K have wonderful basic skating and i always thought they should have been above the other russsian's long ago. Easier dance so i think their marks were too high but the quality is there. I don't think they should be so close with V/M. The French P/B performed great and its right they are right next to I/K. Shame W/P lost levels as on the twizzles but their marks were abit harsh. I would have still had them as well as C/L above B/S who just are too wild and not graceful enough.Makes me frustrated how V/M skated like that and lost that level. I was not accepting before that there is some kind of judging scandal but sadly the drop in level of their finnstep when the inventors of the dance who were World medalist themselves say they skated it better and the timming was off for D/W. Makes it rather suspicious.Its very sad V/M have only a slight slight chance at the Gold as its pre determined the wanted winners are D/W with I/K on the podium. I do love I/K and often thought they were not rewarded, but with the sudden change in their marks its looking pre determined.

forget pcs which I think should favour V and M - they are more natural in their presentation, they still have better lines, edges and most significantly technically they were better and cleaner than D and W who appeared tight at points. The judges should have reversed the scores. Clearly there were reasons it is like V and M have been tossed out. Considering how plushy was treated that would seem to be the case and in the Case of V and M they performed the SD well enough to beat Dand W. I can see how V and M should or wold be dejected. I would have had V and M at 78.4; I and K at 76.7 and D and W at 76.1.

 

[Ryan O]

I would have Weaver/Poje below the Shibutanis tonight to be quite honest. They had an extended lift and a sloppy twizzle sequence. They were overscored here.

Not sure if W&P were overscored since they finished 7th in the SD and out of the final group - a big change from their ranking at Worlds the past couple years.

But you are right about the twizzles and some of the other aspects of the program. Tracy Wilson said on NBC that W&P were tight and that they had a few problems.

 

[edenlover]

Seems like this has turned into a hate D/W thread. Really? I don't know anything about scoring, but I loved both performances for what they were--very different and unique. This all brings me back to the days of Irina vs. Michelle. Yuck.

One has to wonder what the impact of all this dissension will have on tonight's outcome--if any. I hope we don't have a repeat of what happened after the award of the second medals in 2002. That was so unfortunate for the Russian skaters who did nothing wrong.

I'm sure I'll get the wrath of some but people, enjoy the skaters and appreciate them for what they give us.

And as for rocco and coco--they weren't in the stands. Believe me, if you've ever seen a competition live, it's totally different from watching it on TV

 

[Ryan O]

I agree that I wish the V&M vs. D&W blocs here would take it down a notch. We get that there are passionate supporters of each team. Some of us are able to appreciate both teams even if we come from the country of one of the two teams (in my case Canada). Most of us hope that both teams skate well and that the judging is fair. It's silly to read posts by hardcore fans of one team or the other claiming that one of these teams is overwhelmingly better than the other and is going to crush the other one into smithereens. I kind of wonder what the V&M vs. D&W hardcore fans are going to do after the Olympics if one or both of these teams retire! This rivalry may come to an end tomorrow for all we know.

I watched both the CBC & NBC coverage yesterday. The CBC crew (mainly Kurt Browning) seemed more favourable to V&M, naturally. But Carol Lane acknowledged that both teams were very good and that she wouldn't want to be on the judging panel and have to decide between them. I also noticed on NBC that Tracy Wilson, although Canadian, didn't say there was anything wrong with D&W's marks. That could be because she's broadcasting to an American audience, but it may also be because as an Olympic medalist in Ice Dance herself and an expert in the field, she thought D&W were very good and didn't have a problem with them being 1st.

I personally think the marks could have been a little closer between the 2 teams (perhaps 1 point apart instead of 2), but as former dancers like Lane & Wilson both said, the two teams are both very good and it's hard to pick one over the other on a night when they both skate very well.

 

[mskater93]

I think someone "official" needs to clarify the marks for V/M and why they were marked down just because of the media aspect. If it becomes too much of an issue, then the IOC might figure this is the last straw and simply remove ice dance from the Olympics. I think they were close to doing that back in 1998?

It was already discussed earlier in this thread that the timing was off (Scott) right before the stop and the pepperpot was off a little. No one official "needs to clarify" - notice Zoeva didn't file a protest, therefore she knows why they got a L3

 

[Ryan O]

It was already discussed earlier in this thread that the timing was off (Scott) right before the stop and the pepperpot was off a little. No one official "needs to clarify" - notice Zoeva didn't file a protest, therefore she knows why they got a L3

Well, it could be argued that Zoeva doesn't want to step on any toes and make the controversy worse for her dance teams.

But it's certainly true what some people say above - there is media controversy. With Beverley Smith and Christie Blatchford writing angry pieces yesterday claiming D&W should not have ranked above V&M, and the creators of the Fin Step tweeting that they think V&M were better, it has caused some debate.

http://www.canada.com/olympics/news...tue-second-after-short-dance-trail-u-s-rivals

 

[ice coverage]

It was already discussed earlier in this thread that the timing was off (Scott) right before the stop and the pepperpot was off a little. No one official "needs to clarify" - notice Zoeva didn't file a protest, therefore she knows why they got a L3

Meanwhile, I see complaints (accompanied by photos) on Facebook that Davis/White were on flats exiting their twizzles.

ETA: The absence of a protest from Zoueva means absolutely nothing one way or the other. It is possible that she simply didn't want to get caught between her two teams and decided to let a sleeping dog lie.​

Seems like this has turned into a hate D/W thread. Really? ...

And as for rocco and coco--they weren't in the stands. Believe me, if you've ever seen a competition live, it's totally different from watching it on TV

I see plenty of posts in support of Davis/White in this thread.

As for Rahkamo/Kokko, I'm sure that they as former competitors are aware that watching on TV does not duplicate seeing a competition live.

That said, every single post (AFAIK) in this thread is based on watching the competition on a screen. So those here whose opinions oppose Rahkamo's and Kokko's are on equally shaky ground.

~~~~~~~~~~

On a lighter note, Isabella and Anastasia Cannuscio wrote a fun review of the Olympic individual SD.

http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=articles&id=2014ogicedancesd-cannuscio (Feb 17)
​

 

[Kirk]

Yesterday's judging made me sick to my stomach. With all due respect to D/W, they most certainly do not deserve better PCS than V/M at both of their bests. I'll just skip the FD and cherish the perfect ice dancing fin-step routine left by V/M and hopefully their FD tomorrow.

Looking through the protocol, a couple of judges obviously/intentionally marked down V/M's PCS from 9 to 9.5 when the rest of the panel properly marked high 9s and 10s. D/W's skating skills are that better than V/M? WTH are they smokin'? This event is just disgusting.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Yesterday's judging made me sick to my stomach. With all due respect to D/W, they most certainly do not deserve better PCS than V/M at both of their bests. I'll just skip the FD and cherish the perfect ice dancing fin-step routine left by V/M and hopefully their FD tomorrow. This event is just disgusting.

It's only "disgusting" and made you "sick to your stomach" because the results disappointed you. On the whole I thought it was all rather well-skated. No falls, no infamous glares (though, of course, an infamous glare would be a cherished moment!).

What I find "disgusting" is remarks like that.

 

[RiceSkate]

I feel like everything is a conspiracy with Canadians at the Olympics lol. V/M did really well as did D/W. It would have been funny if D/W had their own counter reality show here in the US showing their side of the rivalry.