2014 Olympics Short Dance

[CocoChanel]

Welcome, CocoChanel. Thanks for joining us.

About the fix, the deal was that Russia would get gold in team and pairs, and in exchange USA would get gold in dance. Now, however, the Russians have their two in hand, so they are free to double-cross their erstwhile partners. When I&K win tomorrow, you will see that I am right.

Thanks for the welcome!

I used to follow figure skating more closely [back when Kurt Browning was competing] but ice dance always seems to go by the same formula. Whoever has been skating in first place for most of the year winds up winning the Olympics so in that respect, I can see how the placements are going to be 'set' before the competition even starts.

Artistry is more subjective so it's hard to argue which is better but with technical marks, I would think that the judges would know that those marks are being scrutinized closely after what's happened with judging scandals in the past.

I'd like to see whether anyone on the judging side will come out and refute what Rahkamo and Kokko have said.

Fun times ahead LOL.

 

[ManyCairns]

...

Am I a minority of one by for Chock and Bates better than Cappelini and Lannotte today? (+3 for Anna's blue skirt, though.)

Interesting to hear that reaction. I thought C/B were meh today and I definitely liked C/L better. C/B didn't do anything much wrong I guess but for me nothing memorable. Shibs were the surprise delight for me today -- they were joyful and fun. Enjoyed P/B as I usually do, I/K were very nice, missed V/M because I was watching Downton Abbey, D/W were polished and mesmerizing. B/S -- don't get the love for them. W/P definitely looked tight and not at their best by far.

 

[Ice Dance]

The Shibutanis have a fabulous short. Their posture is SUPERB, and their twizzles are fast. I like your comment about friendship because I think this team is extremely special and they are capable of portraying a REAL relationship. I was sorry to see that they weren't in the final two groups today. Obviously this isn't due to their Worlds or Grand Prix ranking so I'm assuming it's because other teams earned seeding points at Europeans. Am thinking these two should have gone to Four Continents so they could go head-to-head with Chock & Bates here.

Biggest shock of the event--Hurtado & Diaz! Pretty incredible placement.

Virtue & Moir--Great job. Good to see them hit.

Charlie & Meryl--Yay! Also a GREAT job. That makes three programs under terrific pressure. In Russia.

P&B--I loved their earlier short and I WISH they hadn't changed it, but I'm proud of them for skating clean. It's going to take a miracle for them to get on that podium, but I'll be cheering for them nonetheless. I love the Rose program

I&K--I love I&K's long, but not this short. It's disjointed. Twenties costumes to forties music and the choreography lost somewhere in between. Plus she stumbled coming out of the lift. Yes, B&S lacked unison in their twizzles & yes, P&B lost some of their personality in their short. But this short hasn't been a top 5 program all season & I disagree with it being there now. I think they benefited from their performance of the long in the team competition.

B&S--I actually think they skated this with the best posture they have all season. A shame about the lack of unison in the twizzles. This has been an extremely tough season for them. They've definitely been the ones with the pressure, and they came on so strong last year, living up to that promise this season has been brutal. I actually wish they'd kept the Four Seasons long program and just changed the over-the-top ending. (Because I do think it was a very tough dance with a lot of quite challenging transitions & footwork).

C&L--Sigh. I just love them so much. (And no, I am not Italian). They have skated this program so beautifully all season. And they deserve to be in that final group, DANG IT!

C&B--Careful, careful, careful. But clean. Good for them. I actually think most teams skated a bit carefully today, which tends to happen at the Olympics (though not always in the short).

W&P--Just don't think this is their type of program. I wish Angelika had given them a story to go with it. I'm looking forward to seeing their free because it's been improving all year. (And I really think these two will ace the Paso Doble next season).

Annoying commentary note: Paraphrasing here.
Johnny: This is the first season Kaitlyn has actually expressed the program with her face.
Excuse me? This is the girl who pulled off Roxanne in the short dance. She has expression by the bucketload & has had it for years!
Johnny: This is their break-out season.
Um, no. This is their comeback season. Their breakout season was two years ago when they almost won the bronze with an AMAZING free dance that lost to the French in France with the--sigh--mummy program.

Lots more thoughts, but I have to go watch the prime-time coverage now.

 

[Olympia]

Spot on!!! Let's face it, D/W and V/M fans should have more respect for both pairs and one another. These couples have really changed and pushed the boundaries of what all ice dance is as a competition now; and they've made it more fun to watch!

'


Agreed. Either of these couples alone is amazing, but together, they have enriched ice dancing immeasurably. I can't bear to think of what the sport will be like if both retire after this Worlds....

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

'


Agreed. Either of these couples alone is amazing, but together, they have enriched ice dancing immeasurably. I can't bear to think of what the sport will be like if both retire after this Worlds....

I know!!!!

However, I do see some pairs that are still staying that I think have potential to be good......Granted, I don't think we'll have the same competitive spirit and push that D/W and V/M gave us. I think part of the reason this sport was pushed so much is because the two pairs trained together - they were never not in competition, which just creates and molds them to be the best (since neither pair cracked under the constant pressure).

 

[riceplate]

Annoying commentary note: Paraphrasing here.
Johnny: This is the first season Kaitlyn has actually expressed the program with her face.
Excuse me? This is the girl who pulled off Roxanne in the short dance. She has expression by the bucketload & has had it for years!
Johnny: This is their break-out season.
Um, no. This is their comeback season. Their breakout season was two years ago when they almost won the bronze with an AMAZING free dance that lost to the French in France with the--sigh--mummy program.

Lots more thoughts, but I have to go watch the prime-time coverage now.

The Johnny/Tara show was terrible this time around (me predicts he'll be putting on the faux Russian accent during I/K's Swan Lake and mention again that it's Marina Anissina's favorite FD. )
Yes, Tracy Wilson is nitpicky but at least she's able to point out the technical side and other details of what's separating these couples apart (Bobrova's pitched forward posture; lack of dance hold & the hip separation/distance between I/K, etc). Tom Hammond would probably go insane having to watch all these dance couples, but I wish he and Wilson sat in for the NBCSN broadcast and then do the necessary cut-and-paste/overdub for the primetime main network reairing.

 

[dress]

W&P--Just don't think this is their type of program. I wish Angelika had given them a story to go with it. I'm looking forward to seeing their free because it's been improving all year. (And I really think these two will ace the Paso Doble next season).
.

They will be amazing for the paso doble!! A. Poje will be hot hot hot

 

[Tonichelle]

Whoever has been skating in first place for most of the year winds up winning the Olympics so in that respect,

then how did Voir win in Vancouver?

 

[pangtongfan]

then how did Voir win in Vancouver?

V&M were generally beating and outscoring D&W regularly at the time. Grand Prix final that season was an aberration around then (and it seems to be an event V&M were sadly destined to never win for whatever reason).

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

V&M were generally beating and outscoring D&W regularly at the time. Grand Prix final that season was an aberration around then (and it seems to be an event V&M were sadly destined to never win for whatever reason).

And they were on home ice, which always seems to award a certain advantage...

 

[M&R]

Well just finished watching the programs of the top dancers and I am dissappointed that D/W are ahead of V/M. V/M were fantastic and just flowed across the ice. D/W although they were awesome was a little off unison of their straight footwork. Even the fellow who invented the Finnstep in not in agreement with the marks and standings........

 

[rain]

Well just finished watching the programs of the top dancers and I am dissappointed that D/W are ahead of V/M. V/M were fantastic and just flowed across the ice. D/W although they were awesome was a little off unison of their straight footwork. Even the fellow who invented the Finnstep in not in agreement with the marks and standings........

The straightline footwork is where I really noticed a difference as well. D/W looked tight and stiff and as if they were thinking through every move.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The straightline footwork is where I really noticed a difference as well. D/W looked tight and stiff and as if they were thinking through every move.

Agreed. The flow and depth of edge in the Canadians were really impressive. While I thought D/W had a better performance overall, I was disappointed that some of the elements of D/W received higher GOE, particularly the step sequence and final lift which seemed basic for D/W (he propped her on his shoulder and held her leg up in a split, with not much change in position or difficult entry compared to other teams' lifts; was very clean and fast but looked simple in comparison).

 

[ice coverage]

...
I'd like to see whether anyone on the judging side will come out and refute what Rahkamo and Kokko have said.

Unfortunately (from my point of view), the judges already have spoken with the official scoring. Why would they feel any need to "refute" what Rahkamo and Kokko tweeted? Again, please don't get me wrong. I myself wish the judges had agreed with Rahkamo and Kokko.

[And lest you wonder, we did discuss the Rahkamo and Kokko tweets many hours/pages ago (but not blaming you if you have not read back that far -- this thread has generated so much discussion).]

And they were on home ice, which always seems to award a certain advantage...

Home ice is a double-edged sword. The disadvantage of feeling more pressure as well as the advantage of feeling more support.

 

[pangtongfan]

And they were on home ice, which always seems to award a certain advantage...

This is true, but I do strongly believe V&M would have won those Olympics anywhere. Maybe a lesser points margin, but still win. They won Worlds a month later skating a notch worse and D&W a half notch better.

D&W were probably a bit lucky in 2010 that Domnina & Shabalin and Delobel & Schoenfelder had been injured. Given that they had not medalled at a Worlds yet, and artistically were not really matured yet, the judges wouldnt have so easily awarded them the Olympic Silver even otherwise IMO.

 

[westernhalf]

then how did Voir win in Vancouver?

Good question. I brought up each team's OD from 2010, and was surprised to see V/M badly off in their twizzles, while D/W's were beautifully synchronized. Admittedly, I am not a judge, but V/M's program seemed to be a lot of Tessa snapping her dress around, while D/W's routine had fresh and innovative moves. (Oversimplified, I know.)

I will admit to just liking Davis and White better, because they have always been gracious--even in defeat--and even when the defeat seemed questionable. I hope they have every success imaginable after their competitive career ends.

 

[Skater Boy]

Wow that is a big margin...

This is so wrong. Yes it would be nice for D and W to have gold but tonite they were overmarked; they don't deserve to win the SD and V and were lowballed. not that we should look at other events or karma but considering Canada has not had any real luck in skating they lost the gold in men and team when they had a good shot at gold and they didn't get bornze in pairs one would think karma or the odds would allow Canada to get a break but it ain't happening. Forget breaks they deserved first tonite. I would have i and K up higher too. Sadly this does give fuel to the fire the fix is in. I am sure D and W will run away with the long and maybe even deserve it if they skate well but they were gifted. pcs wise should have gone to V and M. Looke for p and b to get bronze. i can't see either russian team doing it.

 

[pangtongfan]

When you say you would have I&K up higher do you mean higher marks or above D&W. Since if you mean they deserved to be above D&W, then that is pretty funny. Almost as funny as the Italian poster who said they should have been behind the Italian team and had lower PCS than Bobrova & Soloviev.

 

[Tonichelle]

I personally liked Voir's SD more (but that's been my feeling all season long). I haven't seen the NBC coverage, and Tara and Johnny were no help in explaining where Tessa and Scott lost a level, but I'm just not sure 2 points was right (maybe by the rules, but come on judges milk the GOEs and PCS).

I LOVE Marlie's Free Dance though, and still have no emotional connection or enjoyment of any kind with Voir's FD... so...

I dunno overall maybe Marlie is the right choice... we'll have to see how it goes Monday.

I'm really just hoping the Shiboos can pull up a bit and I'd love to see Natalie and Fabian get bronze... though I'd be okay with Anna and Luca... or shoot even Elena and Nikita... TOO MANY TEAMS TO LOVE!

 

[Darnella2005]

Agreed!!! Their performance was really good!!! :agree: ...But there is a part of me that wonders, if they weren't siblings - would they have gotten a more inflated score like others did? And then I think, if they were Russian, siblings or not, they'd totally benefit from some home court advantage, haha.

BTW, I'm just joking....I do expect whichever country is hosting to get a certain amount of benefit...It always happens.

I have been scratching my head wondering why the wonderful Shibutani's are NOT rewarded for their SD. They are star quality and I always look forward to seeing them perform. I hope they will be rewarded for the remainder of their careers.