2014 Worlds - Men Free Program

[karlowens2]

Lol you've got to be kidding me with this. Your tired of this BS? What BS? That someone has to really fight for what they want? That no matter what, when it comes down to it you just have to throw everything you have and more down on that ice? That a 19 year old kid with asthma has no choice BUT to fight through the LP which has monstrous technical difficulty? That he doesn't want to lose to himself and he'll go down fighting? That he skated on an injured ankle in '12 but told no one about but instead took painkillers and gave his everything? That he never complains about being injured or have aches/excuses when he fails and just blames himself? That he skated with injury's today as well; back and knees apparently; and again told no one? We only got to see a peak the pain he was going through after he finished his LP. He fought to land that 4S that was taunting him this whole season.

Your comment pisses me off to no end. And its not just because its regarding Yuzuru. You're saying that a skater that is giving their all and fighting for the title as WORLDS BEST is BS. Its what sports is all about, there should be no other way to but to fight for it. I will appreciate his win here way more than I will ever appreciate his Olympic gold (which was just handed to him because Chan didn't fight for HIS gold :disapp:

Mao falling on her face in the OLY short and coming storming back for the FS. Rochette getting on the podium 48 hours aftrer the death of her mother. Even Lysacek who noone thought had a chance at gold but who doggedly trained until he had enough. These show real character. Hanyu was straining alright - but the result just wasnt championship material. He´s a young man. His real toughening up comes now. He will loose his boyish advantage, the jumps will become tougher, the press and compeitors will hound him. This makes the grat champions of Mao, Yagudin and Kwan.

 

[Meoima]

Mao falling on her face in the OLY short and coming storming back for the FS. Rochette getting on the podium 48 hours aftrer the death of her mother. Even Lysacek who noone thought had a chance at gold but who doggedly trained until he had enough. These show real character. Hanyu was straining alright - but the result just wasnt championship material. He´s a young man. His real toughening up comes now. He will loose his boyish advantage, the jumps will become tougher, the press and compeitors will hound him. This makes the grat champions of Mao, Yagudin and Kwan.

So you say trying your best to overcome your own shortcoming and health problems does not count, huh? Do you know how many time Hanyu has fallen to get today's achievement? So you say the press and competitors haven't haunted him ever since? So you say going out to the rink with pressure from your whole nation to skate with asthma and 15 acupuncture needles on your body, injuries on knee and back...still able to perform a tremendously difficult program without a fall...does not show real character? Okay, I get it. Lol

 

[Silvia451]

We can't know what's going to happen in the next seasons. Skaters become better and better. Hanyu has a chance to become "a great champion" one day. His jumps may become tougher, but his skating skills will become better. He has enough time to become legendary, he's only 19 and he wants, more than anything, to improve his skating from one competition to another.

 

[karne]

So you say trying your best to overcome your own shortcoming and health problems does not count, huh? Do you know how many time Hanyu has fallen to get today's achievement? So you say the press and competitors haven't haunted him ever since? So you say going out to the rink with pressure from your whole nation to skate with asthma and 15 acupuncture needles on your body, injuries on knee and back...still able to perform a tremendously difficult program without a fall...does not show real character? Okay, I get it. Lol

Joshua Farris has asthma too. I don't see him using it as an excuse every time he doesn't perform well. Nor do his fans - I certainly don't.

Joshua also has a life-threatening allergy to dairy. He doesn't use it as an excuse. Nor do his fans. On two occasions only has it directly affected his performance. But he did not offer it as an excuse...his coach had to reveal it later.

Joshua also once skated with a broken leg. He broke it on the third jumping pass of a long program and finished the program, spins, steps and jumps all.

I just feel like Hanyu's fans really really overblow his health issues. LOTS of people have asthma. Hanyu's not the only skater in the world with asthma, and he's certainly not the only skater in the world who's skated through injuries.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Joshua Farris has asthma too. I don't see him using it as an excuse every time he doesn't perform well. Nor do his fans - I certainly don't.

Joshua also has a life-threatening allergy to dairy. He doesn't use it as an excuse. Nor do his fans. On two occasions only has it directly affected his performance. But he did not offer it as an excuse...his coach had to reveal it later.

Joshua also once skated with a broken leg. He broke it on the third jumping pass of a long program and finished the program, spins, steps and jumps all.

I just feel like Hanyu's fans really really overblow his health issues. LOTS of people have asthma. Hanyu's not the only skater in the world with asthma, and he's certainly not the only skater in the world who's skated through injuries.

Oh yeah, so because Farris is a fighter too, people don't need to respect Hanyu for his accomplishments. Makes total sense :sarcasm:

 

[Meoima]

Joshua Farris has asthma too. I don't see him using it as an excuse every time he doesn't perform well. Nor do his fans - I certainly don't.

Joshua also has a life-threatening allergy to dairy. He doesn't use it as an excuse. Nor do his fans. On two occasions only has it directly affected his performance. But he did not offer it as an excuse...his coach had to reveal it later.

Joshua also once skated with a broken leg. He broke it on the third jumping pass of a long program and finished the program, spins, steps and jumps all.

I just feel like Hanyu's fans really really overblow his health issues. LOTS of people have asthma. Hanyu's not the only skater in the world with asthma, and he's certainly not the only skater in the world who's skated through injuries.

Do you have any grudge against Hanyu? Did he steal your girlfriend/boyfriend or something?

Who ever say Hanyu uses his health as the excuse for not performing well? In his interview Hanyu never ever mentioned a word about injuries and his asthma condition. He only said he was not good enough and that was his fault, he never blames anyone. And no one ever blames his bad condition on other people (maybe his coach, then, poor Orser).

I am not the one who brought the topic of bad conditions/tragic situation that those skaters have to overcome first, if you read the previous comment. What I am saying is, Hanyu has also overcome lots of obstacles, just like all the athletes/champions you have mentioned.

What you say is, Hanyu does not show real character of a champion while in fact he does. Lots of people here see it, you don't see it, you don't like him, it's your personally matter.
You say as if Hanyu were gifted the medal because people pity him while in fact he has to fight hard for it and people respect him for that tremendous effort.

Anyways, no one could tell what will happen in the future, but for today, lots of people respect all the skaters that go out there, despite their own shortcoming/bad conditions, and perform their best for us. That is what matters.

Meh, shouldn't have feed the troll.

 

[Ryusa5]

Hanyu never used his asthma as an excuse for his mistakes,in fact he doesn't even talk about it,neighter does his team it was the media who said about the accupuncture needles cus they're visible under his costume.I agree that his fans are the ones that use it too often because he looks so exhausted after his performance,but he is getting better every season even though his difficulty is getting higher.
I'm sure there are many athlets that have asthma,but it's not fair to compare them because there are many levels of asthma and unless you are their doctor you can't know how severe it is.Hanyu always blames himself for what happens,his lack of concentration,overconfidence,not enought practice etc.but he never used his asthma or his injuries as an excuse

 

[CarneAsada]

It is odd how when Hanyu actually does a clean 2-quad, 8-triple LP, he still catches so much flak. Yes it wasn't a really great performance but when one poster found out he was injured, I actually read something along the lines of, Well, we can't always know that, it's his job to take care of himself! And then when he lands the 4S after having so much trouble in previous competitions, I see "He landed the 4S. How bizarre. Well, finally." It seems like some people can't let go of a grudge.

 

[slider11]

I must agree that the PCS are out of whack. Agreed that the big jumps should get big scores in the technical phase. But the PCS are not comparably scored. Hanyu and Machida's performance skills are no where close to Fernandez and Abbott. This is nothing new in figure skating. Back in the "old" days, in the 6.0 system the same thing happened. Janet Lynn would get slammed in the school figures and Trixi Schuba, a master tracer, would get high scores. But then Trixi, whose performance, was, well, not so great, would still get 5.5s and Janet who was a dream performer would get 5.9s and 6.0s. Why wasn't Trixi's performance scores much lower? Advance 40 years and we still see this with the new system. Judges need to be better trained on how to discern how to appropriately distinguish and mark technical content from artistry. Or maybe better leadership is needed in the isu?

 

[Kelly]

I have just seen Machida's FS and I am beyond astonished that kind of a program was able to score that high. The choreography pretty much consisted of Machida flapping and gliding through the rink:disapp:. Any sane judge would have given that program low 80's heck I'd give that 75 PCS. Where are the transitions anyway unless those arm moves counted as transitions.

Fernandez was so robbed of silver.

:agree:, but only if Fernandez had not singled his triple lutz.

 

[Meoima]

:agree:, but only if Fernandez had not singled his triple lutz.

Had Javi not singled the triple lutz, he would be the gold medalist, Hanyu would get the silver, Machida the bronze. That would be my ideal podium.

 

[Art&Sport]

Oh well, as much as I like Javi and believe he has great potential, he's not really there yet as a complete skater. Jeremy Abbott is a complete skater with a gorgeous movement style and program ideas that have been copied by his contemporaries (E.g., Javi's lp is definitely a take on Jeremy's sp of last season; and Jeremy's Swing sp was widely copied -- of course the jazzy suspenders concept has been done before in skating, most notably by Jeremy's idol, Robin Cousins). Alas, Jeremy is known not to be a great competitor. Because of Jeremy's enormous talent there has been a huge focus and spotlight on him whenever he fails to deliver, but he's definitely not the only skater to have battled nerves and failed to live up to his great talent in the big moments. Kudos to Jeremy in the last big moment for showing what he can do in great style. Yes Jeremy still had nerves but he calmly and beautifully delivered his final skate and did not let the jitters get to him.

IMHO, Jeremy's scores should have been much higher, but the judges don't value Jeremy's worth because of his past record under pressure (and probably they were leaving room, but no excuse for not giving Jeremy better tech and PCS points). Javi Fernandez in NO WAY deserves higher PCS scores than Jeremy Abbott!!! Absolutely glaring problem with the scoring system, the way the judges throw out undeserved PCS when skaters do the technical tricks. Yuzuru has enormous talent and tremendous jumping ability but he's also being over-rewarded prior to actually developing into a complete skater. The scores for top men in this comp are absolutely ridiculous! Fortunately, the actual placements panned out fairly decently.

I have come to very much admire Tatsuki Machida. What a WOWSA short program! I was pulling for Machida to pull off the win after seeing his fantastic sp. But the judges do love to remain status quo in rewarding the Olympic champion. The skating order for lp was not in Machida's favor, and the judges definitely left room for Javi and Yuzuru. The thing I admire most about Machida is that he has worked so very hard to get absolutely every ounce of what he can out of his talent. He's not the most talented skater out there, but not unlike Evan Lysacek, Machida obviously works very hard and has enormous self-belief. Machida's sp skate was the epitome of self-belief, and it was a very magical moment. A lot of skaters could certainly learn something from looking at that sp and understanding how Machida was able to deliver that performance in the hot light of competition pressure.

 

[jace93]

Oh well, as much as I like Javi and believe he has great potential, he's not really there yet as a complete skater. Jeremy Abbott is a complete skater with a gorgeous movement style and program ideas that have been copied by his contemporaries (E.g., Javi's lp is definitely a take on Jeremy's sp of last season; and Jeremy's Swing sp was widely copied -- of course the jazzy suspenders concept has been done before in skating, most notably by Jeremy's idol, Robin Cousins). Alas, Jeremy is known not to be a great competitor. Because of his enormous talent there has been a huge focus and spotlight on him whenever he fails to deliver, but he's definitely not the only skater to have battled nerves and failed to live up to his great talent in the big moments. Kudos to Jeremy in the last big moment for showing what he can do in great style. Yes he still had nerves but he calmly went through his final skate and did not let the jitters get to him.

I don't think that Jeremy is a complete skater... well I don't believe it could even exist a complete skater... Abbot has good interpretation and, while I'm not a fan of his take on that, also good musicality, but is technical elements aren't that good and he truly doesn't have the head of a performer... way too many times after he failed something he just gave up and didn't even try to entertain his pubblic

 

[StellaCampo]

I am curious as to what Machida will do next season.
I never thought he would be a serious rival to Hanyu, but from his post-performance interviews it appears he wants to challenge Hanyu next season.

As Art&Sport says Machida is not the most talented skater but he is intelligent and has aptitude for project management. His programmes this season indicate that there is still a plenty of points to be squeezed out from the protocols. Post-performance he was seen talking to Lori. I'm not sure if I want a Lori programme for him but how he will select his choreographer should also be interesting.

 

[HanDomi]

Well Javi and Yuzuru both have the hardest technical programms in the field way ahead of others, basically on the same lvl of BV, just about 0.5 pts diffrence. It's nice to see their good relations as they are rivals and train with the same coach. I read somewhere that Javier started to train harder when Yuzuru started with BOrser so they motivate each other nicely



Abott has great programms but only on the artistic side, i like them, but on technical side ..... :sarcasm:

 

[karlowens2]

So you say trying your best to overcome your own shortcoming and health problems does not count, huh? Do you know how many time Hanyu has fallen to get today's achievement? So you say the press and competitors haven't haunted him ever since? So you say going out to the rink with pressure from your whole nation to skate with asthma and 15 acupuncture needles on your body, injuries on knee and back...still able to perform a tremendously difficult program without a fall...does not show real character? Okay, I get it. Lol

No need to mock me. I´m only giving an opinion. Hanyu has been the darling of the skating world, not someone hounded. I´m no doctor and not a skater but skating with injury seems to be everyone´s story. Oksana received a pain shot before her Lilllehammer free. Arakawa skated with a knee wrap in Torino. The delivered exceptional preformances (actually, didn´t like Oksana´s so much). Hanyu semed to be just be getting through. It must of been hard; it´s commendable.

I´m concerned for his future. I´ve observed that chronic injury shakes a skater´s confidence and technique becomes unreliable. Did Hanyu push too hard in early years and now has diminished his full potential?

 

[Meoima]

I´m concerned for his future. I´ve observed that chronic injury shakes a skater´s confidence and technique becomes unreliable. Did Hanyu push too hard in early years and now has diminished his full potential?

Yes, I get your point. This is a serious problem that applies for all the skaters. Look at Kim Yuna, 23 as she is, still so young yet a history of injuries. It's not that we don't see it, but what can we do?
Figure skating has become more and more demanding. Young talents have to push themselves so much these day. I don't know how they cope up with all of these expectation that comes from their nations and outsiders.
This sport has become the race of difficult jumps and tremendous elements. And it's not just Hanyu, look at all other younglings. Julia of Russia almost quited this sport due to injuries, and how old is she? 15!!! She is just fifteen! This is so cruel.
Yagudin quitted at 23, as great as he was. Plushy finally was forced to quit after like... dozen of surgeries.
Then again, what could we do? File a petition on Change.org to limit the number of jumps each program, like 6 jumps each LP? Come to think of it, that's a good idea.

 

[Art&Sport]

I don't think that Jeremy is a complete skater... well I don't believe it could even exist a complete skater... Abbot has good interpretation and, while I'm not a fan of his take on that, also good musicality, but is technical elements aren't that good and he truly doesn't have the head of a performer... way too many times after he failed something he just gave up and didn't even try to entertain his pubblic

It really depends on what you think is a complete skater. To me a complete skater is someone who can combine athleticism with superb artistry. That is what figure skating is: Art and Sport, despite what some people think to the contrary. Whether or not you like Jeremy's style is one thing. But when he has delivered at the top of his game, Jeremy is absolutely beautiful to watch (and even beautiful with his movement style with mistakes on occasion). Of course, once you have a rep for messing up and you have difficulty with overcoming nerves, it becomes even more difficult. The fact Jeremy even made the U.S. team this year is something to celebrate. I guess when he was in the shadow of Evan and Johnny, Jeremy got used to being under the radar and delivering without high expectations. Then post 2010 Olympics, USFS did not fully get behind Jeremy when it might have made a huge difference to his competitive arc. There are very few magical and transcendent moments in figure skating, but Jeremy has delivered more than a few (albeit mostly at U.S. Nationals, and at GPF 2008).

Keep in mind that a quad is not a jump, just an extra revolution. Most of the top skaters can do all the basic jumps, although some may have weak tendencies on certain jumps or just have their favorites while some jumps present technical problems for them under pressure. The problem for the sport right now, IMHO, is the over-emphasis on the extra quad revolution, which to me contributes to retarding the full development of skaters generally. Skaters should actually be practicing figures more which helps give them the necessary edge technique to jump well.

 

[chairmanmao]

Performance of the night was Jeremy. Really I think the only great performance of the night. I was sceptical before I saw this that it would be as good as the one at US Nationals a few years back but Jeremy once again delivered an amazing skate. He really isn't appreciated enough . He along with Kozuka for me are the most beautiful skaters to watch. Sadly there have been few times that have happened and if they do they end up behind rather lackluster performances.

 

[Art&Sport]

Performance of the night was Jeremy. Really I think the only great performance of the night. I was sceptical before I saw this that it would be as good as the one at US Nationals a few years back but Jeremy once again delivered an amazing skate. He really isn't appreciated enough . He along with Kozuka for me are the most beautiful skaters to watch. Sadly there have been few times that have happened and if they do they end up behind rather lackluster performances.

I would agree that judges did not have high expectations for Jeremy and so under-rated him in the marks despite his giving one of his better performances, and especially with it being the last performance of his competitive career and not making a mistake (aside from a forward landing on one jump). Shut up Phil Hersh's mouth! Way to go Jeremy!


Javi and Yuzuru benefit from having a good, enthusiastic coach in Brian Orser, and in training at a renowned facility in Canada. They also benefit from having body structures that enable them to make fast turns in the air. When they are both on and have their nerves under control, Javi and Yuzu pull off absolutely gorgeous quads because when they get good height the quick revolutions look so awesome in the air position. They also have the ability to often perform more than one quad per program and are thus judges' darlings (complete artistry be damned). Patrick Chan can pull off amazing quads that are mind-blowing in their seeming effortlessness. Denis Ten at 2013 Worlds performed some mind-blowing quads as well. Some skaters can also perform beautiful quads, like Jeremy did in his lp, that maybe don't have the quick suspended in air look but still are great and effortless looking when completed well on the landing. Jeremy's technique and take-off enabled him to get good height and the rhythm was also good so his landing was perfect. Rhythm, timing, height and quick turns in the air are all extremely difficult, if one thing is slightly off.

Despite the fact, Yuzu has a reputation as being the Japanese Johnny Weir (because of a kind of similar smooth like butter way of moving, plus wearing Johnny-designed costumes), I am not a huge fan of the Little Prince. I don't think Yuzu is fully there yet artistically or stylistically -- he is still maturing as a person and a figure skater. Skaters often need to mature and to know themselves (find their own identity) before they can become complete artists. And then you have the rare skaters like Jason Brown, Paul Wylie, Denis Ten, Johnny Weir and Jeremy Abbott who seemed to be born with artistry and musicality galore. And their technical abilities are also above average, and to me that is what makes them complete skaters, despite three of them never performing an over-rated quad in competition. It took Paul awhile before he was able to put it altogether technically and artistically in big moments. Jeremy Abbott has struggled to do that throughout his career, but Jeremy is a much more well-rounded skater than Javi and Yuzu have yet to become. Jason certainly benefits from having the opportunity to not rush putting the difficult jumps out there until he's mastered them, yet he can still pull great marks because of his rare style and ability to mesmerize an audience. It is often strange how many skaters may have the technical skills but lack the artistic, or have the artistic and technical but lack the competitive mojo consistently. Brian Boitano willed himself (with the help of Sandra Bezic) to become a complete skater. And Kurt Browning developed as an artist over the course of his career, with his full flowering coming in shows and exhibitions. Brian Orser was a great technician and stylist (unfortunately robbed of Olympic gold). But, Orser has in a karmic way made up for that gangbusters as a coach. Patrick Chan redeemed himself so wonderfully during GP in Paris, but he was unable to perform the way he can at the Olympics -- Chan is more of a complete skater than Yuzu, btw.

I would say that Javi has the good looks, technical skill, body build, and the potential to more fully develop artistically, but he's just not there yet either. Javi has great power, beautiful jumps, and a good coach, plus mucho love from the judges. Maybe Javi will get there, and maybe Yuzu will get there too as complete skaters. If they both do, and also stay with Orser too, I can see them both knocking our socks off, as they battle for the top over this next quad (Ha ha, quad for quad)! Not sure if Machida will stay in another year or two, but as of now, Machida has won me over for his sheer self-belief under pressure. If Adam Rippon had the same self-belief and nerves of steel under pressure as Machida, Adam might be competing at Worlds too this year.

Han Yan and Maxim Kovtun are also comers. Kovtun needs to improve his jump technique and find himself artistically. He's lucky to have Tatitana Tarasova in his corner. Han Yan, like Jason Brown, simply needs more competitive experience. Han has great edges and stronger jumps than Jason, but Jason is truthfully at this point, the more complete skater among those two, and truthfully among all the top men even without a quad. We shall see how things transpire in the coming season. I have my favorites, and everyone has theirs. I truly hope something great will happen next season to uplift the sport and maybe change the direction away from a too much over-focus on quads. IOW, it would be great to see a skater like Jason perform the quad consistently but with the focus not on that, but on his programs, choreography, music, and the way he can command an audience.