Article: Sale Interview about SLC, Touring, and Her Upcoming Wedding
- Thread starter R.D.
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I think all of the gold medals from 2002 look like cheap spray paint jobs. This makes me wonder how many "extra" medals are created for each Olympics, and why officials think they will need them. Obviously they didn't plan to give out two sets in the pairs event.
I agree with those who say that the Olympic experience was tarnished for S&P and B&S, but I think it goes beyond them to all other skaters in the event. S&Z probably would have had a little more exposure post-event if there had been no controversy, and I'm sure all of the skaters were sick of being asked their opinions of the event.
The article doesn't make Sale sound good, and I'm not a fan. However, the media loves to rehash old crap and pick and choose waht they report, so I wouldn't hold this against her.
I agree with those who say that the Olympic experience was tarnished for S&P and B&S, but I think it goes beyond them to all other skaters in the event. S&Z probably would have had a little more exposure post-event if there had been no controversy, and I'm sure all of the skaters were sick of being asked their opinions of the event.
The article doesn't make Sale sound good, and I'm not a fan. However, the media loves to rehash old crap and pick and choose waht they report, so I wouldn't hold this against her.
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- Jan 22, 2004
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I agree with those who say that the reporter (and the headline writer, not always or even usually the same person) took her remark that she had more emotional attachment to the silver and blew it into a headline more interesting than "Sale Reminisces About 2002 Judging Scandal" over an article about wedding musings.
And of course it wouldn't have been a scandal if B/S had the silver. Not only are Americans more kindly disposed towards Canadians, they're also more kindly disposed towards people who show emotion than Russian Robots. Frankly, B/S, and their heirs apparent, T/M, leave me cold. Outside G&G and the Protopopovs, Russian 'amateur' pairs teams are mechanoid creatures without personalities. Technically perfect, emotionally bereft. It's hard to feel sympathy for performing mannequins, even when one has as good a sob story as Skate-In-The-Head. (Hm, and now we get Totmianina and her concussion....) Of course, it would NOT have happened to them--the Russians did not have to worry about losing unless they completely imploded, because the fix was in before they ever set foot on the ice.
And, of course, the judges WERE cheating. Not that this was new, but this time they got caught. It confirmed what a lot of people had thought, especially considering the Russians' string of pairs medals. So S/P and B/S got caught up in it, and poor Shen and Zhao got less press than they deserved. (Shame there wasn't a judging split a la the ladies' event, and S/Z didn't win it all. Maybe this year...*praying for Zhao's leg to get better*)
And of course it wouldn't have been a scandal if B/S had the silver. Not only are Americans more kindly disposed towards Canadians, they're also more kindly disposed towards people who show emotion than Russian Robots. Frankly, B/S, and their heirs apparent, T/M, leave me cold. Outside G&G and the Protopopovs, Russian 'amateur' pairs teams are mechanoid creatures without personalities. Technically perfect, emotionally bereft. It's hard to feel sympathy for performing mannequins, even when one has as good a sob story as Skate-In-The-Head. (Hm, and now we get Totmianina and her concussion....) Of course, it would NOT have happened to them--the Russians did not have to worry about losing unless they completely imploded, because the fix was in before they ever set foot on the ice.
And, of course, the judges WERE cheating. Not that this was new, but this time they got caught. It confirmed what a lot of people had thought, especially considering the Russians' string of pairs medals. So S/P and B/S got caught up in it, and poor Shen and Zhao got less press than they deserved. (Shame there wasn't a judging split a la the ladies' event, and S/Z didn't win it all. Maybe this year...*praying for Zhao's leg to get better*)
Excuse Me
Julietvalcouer, excuse me, but you don't speak for all Americans (by the way, are YOU American??). I think your comments about the Russians being mechanoid is pretty much uncalled for. B & S were the class of that whole sorry scenario, showing considerably more emotional maturity than the other pair involved. Your comments about "Skate in the Head" are just downright disgusting.
Julietvalcouer, excuse me, but you don't speak for all Americans (by the way, are YOU American??). I think your comments about the Russians being mechanoid is pretty much uncalled for. B & S were the class of that whole sorry scenario, showing considerably more emotional maturity than the other pair involved. Your comments about "Skate in the Head" are just downright disgusting.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2003
kyla2 said:
Amen to that, kyla2...the "skate in the head" incident, as julietvalcouer so classily calls it, was a near tragedy...Jamie missing her silver medal, now THAT'S a sob story...I personally find B&S very moving, expressive, choreographically brilliant, creative (ever see their "Chaplin" program? Talk about thinking outside the gray, recycled program box!)
And good point someone made about anyone with an association to the Olympics dragging it out for some of the February limelight...right on.
And, hi there Rgirl! I'm doing ok, enjoying your posts and those of many other posters - and of course the intrigue and the drama of the new season as it unfolds - as always!
Frau Muller, you are a riot!!!Frau Muller said:
sarah m.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
LOL - I was giving a friend a ride to pick up his car tonight. He and I were dating during the 2002 Olympics. He's not a figure skating fan, but he did make a point of watching at the time because of me. I mentioned the Olympics and FS and he just blew up again over this scandal. In his eyes, B&S's program was much more complex than S&P's and deserved the gold medal. In his opinion, he also thought that S&P's program was not 'Olympic' enough and did not enjoy watching them throw snowballs at each other. He absolutely hates Scott Hamilton because of his biased shrieking.
IMO, I think it could have gone either way. If Marie hadn't told someone she was pressured, it would have been the end of it. However, she opened the door to public suspicion of shenanigans that were in direct opposition to the Olympic credo. So, the media had their circus and Cinquata wanted to placate everyone.
As for Sale, I don't think of her as whining. They didn't ask to be interviewed - everyone was asking to interview them. Their agent saw $$$'s and booked them for everything. Everyone only wanted to ask them about how they felt, which is why that's all we heard them talk about. I don't recall them demanding a gold medal in the media - their federation did that. S&P seemed to be saying 'We skated well and didn't make any mistakes'. No one asked them if they had a simpler program, etc. Once the 2nd gold was awarded, that was pretty much the end of it, except when someone asks about it again, which is not surprising now since the Oly's are right around the corner.
In this day of reality TV, we must realize that it's all about editing.
So, what about B&S? Why weren't they interviewed? Well, the North American media honchos weren't interested in telling that side of the story. Also, I don't think Anton and Elena's English skills were commanding enough for the media to easily interview them.
I don't blame S&P for the incident - it's the fault of Scott Hamilton, judging conspiracies and the IOC.
BTW, the ex-boyfriend is boycotting viewing any figure skating event ever again, unless it's a clip show of horrible falls and/or booby reveals.
IMO, I think it could have gone either way. If Marie hadn't told someone she was pressured, it would have been the end of it. However, she opened the door to public suspicion of shenanigans that were in direct opposition to the Olympic credo. So, the media had their circus and Cinquata wanted to placate everyone.
As for Sale, I don't think of her as whining. They didn't ask to be interviewed - everyone was asking to interview them. Their agent saw $$$'s and booked them for everything. Everyone only wanted to ask them about how they felt, which is why that's all we heard them talk about. I don't recall them demanding a gold medal in the media - their federation did that. S&P seemed to be saying 'We skated well and didn't make any mistakes'. No one asked them if they had a simpler program, etc. Once the 2nd gold was awarded, that was pretty much the end of it, except when someone asks about it again, which is not surprising now since the Oly's are right around the corner.
In this day of reality TV, we must realize that it's all about editing.
So, what about B&S? Why weren't they interviewed? Well, the North American media honchos weren't interested in telling that side of the story. Also, I don't think Anton and Elena's English skills were commanding enough for the media to easily interview them.
I don't blame S&P for the incident - it's the fault of Scott Hamilton, judging conspiracies and the IOC.
BTW, the ex-boyfriend is boycotting viewing any figure skating event ever again, unless it's a clip show of horrible falls and/or booby reveals.
Oh arrrrrrghh. I promised myself that I wouldn’t post something that would have me mopping up after myself for weeks to come, but I can’t let this one go.
I will flatly tell you that I had no problem with B&S winning the gold in SLC. I would have had no problem if it had gone the other way. However, there was a little problem with the judging, rendering one judge’s vote moot, and the rest is an embarrassing moment in skating history. As it should remain.
Does it occur to you that the media sometimes distorts the truth for the sake of a juicy story? That maybe it is possible that people who are skewered by same are not the spoiled little monsters that they appear to be? That the media are not, as they say, always scrupulously “fair and balanced” when there’s a good story to be had or an offhand remark to exploit?
Conversely, the media stars that are touted as being little angels can sometimes not live up to their reputations. When we got a last minute invitation to the SOI reception last year, I was very happy, because my teenage niece was my guest. SOI was her birthday present, and she was thrilled to get the opportunity to meet her favorite skaters. Long about the time we were taking the elevator to the reception hall was when the wheels came off the wagon, and she had a full blown panic attack. Seems she was afraid she would say the wrong thing to one of her heroes, and thought that they would despise her for it.
Nothing I could say would convince her otherwise. I tried to explain that It was late in the tour, they were likely exhausted, nobody was going to drill her on skating terminology, and anything she might say beyond, “I like your stuff” would be superfluous. What I didn’t say that it was basically part of their job as SOI ambassadors to be pleasant to her; I didn’t want to take the shine off the whole experience by attaching obligation to it. I was ready to take the elevator right back down the way we came, but she made me swear that if I would do all the talking, she would be OK. So we went on in.
As it turns out, her main hero was apparently having a bit of a bad night, and was devastatingly rude to us. Her face went chalk white, and I remember stammering something consoling to her while kicking myself blue for inviting her on this merry little donkey ride to hell in the first place.
Here’s where Jamie Salé comes in. It was a small room, and the incident happened right in front of her. She went out of her way to be kind to my niece, above and beyond the call of duty. Joked with her, signed her program, cheesed for pictures, and was thoroughly charming and kind. She completely defused the situation, and for that, I could have kissed her gnarly little calloused skater girl feet. It didn’t come to that, fortunately.
We all have our favorites, and we can be pretty testy about it. Let's try to remember they are all human, and cut them just a little slack.
I will flatly tell you that I had no problem with B&S winning the gold in SLC. I would have had no problem if it had gone the other way. However, there was a little problem with the judging, rendering one judge’s vote moot, and the rest is an embarrassing moment in skating history. As it should remain.
Does it occur to you that the media sometimes distorts the truth for the sake of a juicy story? That maybe it is possible that people who are skewered by same are not the spoiled little monsters that they appear to be? That the media are not, as they say, always scrupulously “fair and balanced” when there’s a good story to be had or an offhand remark to exploit?
Conversely, the media stars that are touted as being little angels can sometimes not live up to their reputations. When we got a last minute invitation to the SOI reception last year, I was very happy, because my teenage niece was my guest. SOI was her birthday present, and she was thrilled to get the opportunity to meet her favorite skaters. Long about the time we were taking the elevator to the reception hall was when the wheels came off the wagon, and she had a full blown panic attack. Seems she was afraid she would say the wrong thing to one of her heroes, and thought that they would despise her for it.
Nothing I could say would convince her otherwise. I tried to explain that It was late in the tour, they were likely exhausted, nobody was going to drill her on skating terminology, and anything she might say beyond, “I like your stuff” would be superfluous. What I didn’t say that it was basically part of their job as SOI ambassadors to be pleasant to her; I didn’t want to take the shine off the whole experience by attaching obligation to it. I was ready to take the elevator right back down the way we came, but she made me swear that if I would do all the talking, she would be OK. So we went on in.
As it turns out, her main hero was apparently having a bit of a bad night, and was devastatingly rude to us. Her face went chalk white, and I remember stammering something consoling to her while kicking myself blue for inviting her on this merry little donkey ride to hell in the first place.
Here’s where Jamie Salé comes in. It was a small room, and the incident happened right in front of her. She went out of her way to be kind to my niece, above and beyond the call of duty. Joked with her, signed her program, cheesed for pictures, and was thoroughly charming and kind. She completely defused the situation, and for that, I could have kissed her gnarly little calloused skater girl feet. It didn’t come to that, fortunately.
We all have our favorites, and we can be pretty testy about it. Let's try to remember they are all human, and cut them just a little slack.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm with Ptichka on this. It is basically a reminiscence of the time. I didn't read anything about wanting the silver back unless it was the reporter. Seems the reporter was just looking to reignite a big skating story for the forthcoming Olys.
However, it did give the posters a chance to get some venting out. Ti's that season for Oly venting. Tra la la la la.
Joe
However, it did give the posters a chance to get some venting out. Ti's that season for Oly venting. Tra la la la la.
Joe
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- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Antilles said:
That is true actually, i thought at the time, can you imagine the buzz around them coming soooooooo close to landing that throw quad salchow? As it was we heard nothing much about the actual comeptition (anton's step out notwithstanding) and so much more around the judging etc etc.
At the end of the day the competition as between the top three (and beyond) was a fantastic competition with fantastic performances laid down by the skaters. Its such a shame that its rememebred for crooked judges rather than the talented and hardworking skaters.
Ant
Forget Danny and Boris at Luigi's on 38th Street!Spirit said:
Oh, eBay!
Rgirl
PS LOVE the "tiny scratch on backside" on one and the "barely, barely noticeably bitemarks" on the other. With those two "sleeping" with those silver medals (we know, we know, it was only about Jamie "reminiscing" about one), I'm surprised they're not more, shall we say, banged up?
Guess they used protection.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Believe me, I wanted to do an Ebay spoof, but that would have required a mock-up of an Ebay page, which would have taken all day.Rgirl said:
With all the media interviews and post-competition whirlwind, they actually didn't get to bed until almost dawn, so they were too tired to get up to anything.Rgirl said:
Probably.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Yakkety yak.
People, we all need to become students of human nature.
Lesson #1: Reporters take words and make a story of them
Reporter has interview with subject. Subject says something offhand, usually dealing with personal feelings. Reporter says, "Oh, what a great soundbyte. My name will be in lights. I made it to the big time, mama!" Reporter repeats words. Article makes it sound as if subject's life revolves around comment and that subject was complaining/outraged/<insert emotion here>. Public forgets that feelings are just feelings and are often contradictory within any given human being. Public lashes out in resentment at subject. Reporter goes on self-induced heroin trip. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Cut Jamie some slack. It sounded like she was talking about the emotion of winning something on the night you're supposed to win it versus winning something later after a week of garbage (and those of you attacking her are conveniently ignoring her caveat within the article; how nice). (And honestly, when she spoke about sleeping with the medal, it sounded like she was talking about a stuffed animal. That's all I thought.) Unless you have also been on an Olympic podium and then gotten your medals re-colored in the Judging Scandal Two-Step, then you have no idea what she feels. I certainly don't.
Lesson #2: Anniversaries dredge up old stories
I saw this coming 4 years ago. Everyone else should have, too.
When something monumental happens, it will be revisited on its 10-year anniversary, probably on its 25th anniversary, and again on its 50th anniversary. By the time its 100th anniversary rolls around, we're all dead and no one cares.
When something monumental happens at an Olympics, it will be revisited at the next Olympics. Expect a completely uninformative NBC fluff piece, perhaps even a half-hour program, on the judging scandal and its effect on the sport, and showing where everyone involved is now.
For the next 10 weeks, expect more and more stories throughout the media revisiting this subject. Just. Get. Used. To. It. Now. Perhaps the moderators should allow a single thread on the subject and let it grow to a 1000 pages, because this topic is about to come up a lot.
The remainder of this post was going to be a rant about several other parts of the judging scandal mess. I waited a day before replying, and I'm glad I did (like usual). For a whole host of reasons, I'm going to stop here, but with one final thought:
The entire judging scandal mess is big, and therefore has many different angles to it. Subtopics, perhaps I should call them. When any given subtopic arises, people talk about all the subtopics together, and interchange them. For example, the question of whether awarding the duplicate medals was the right thing to do is a different subject entirely from the question of who was better. One is a procedural issue, one is an artistic opinion. But far too many people can't separate them in their minds, and allow their opinion of who was better color their opinion of procedure. That is only one example. It does get tiring, and it's one reason I'm going to stop here -- my post is about the subtopic of public perception. To rant further would be to lump everything together, which is a form of disorganization, and one of the greatest and most common mistakes of public discussion.
I don't know. Maybe GoldenSkate needs an entire forum called 2002 Olympic Judging Scandal and people can just go there to argue.
People, we all need to become students of human nature.
Lesson #1: Reporters take words and make a story of them
Reporter has interview with subject. Subject says something offhand, usually dealing with personal feelings. Reporter says, "Oh, what a great soundbyte. My name will be in lights. I made it to the big time, mama!" Reporter repeats words. Article makes it sound as if subject's life revolves around comment and that subject was complaining/outraged/<insert emotion here>. Public forgets that feelings are just feelings and are often contradictory within any given human being. Public lashes out in resentment at subject. Reporter goes on self-induced heroin trip. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Cut Jamie some slack. It sounded like she was talking about the emotion of winning something on the night you're supposed to win it versus winning something later after a week of garbage (and those of you attacking her are conveniently ignoring her caveat within the article; how nice). (And honestly, when she spoke about sleeping with the medal, it sounded like she was talking about a stuffed animal. That's all I thought.) Unless you have also been on an Olympic podium and then gotten your medals re-colored in the Judging Scandal Two-Step, then you have no idea what she feels. I certainly don't.
Lesson #2: Anniversaries dredge up old stories
I saw this coming 4 years ago. Everyone else should have, too.
When something monumental happens, it will be revisited on its 10-year anniversary, probably on its 25th anniversary, and again on its 50th anniversary. By the time its 100th anniversary rolls around, we're all dead and no one cares.
When something monumental happens at an Olympics, it will be revisited at the next Olympics. Expect a completely uninformative NBC fluff piece, perhaps even a half-hour program, on the judging scandal and its effect on the sport, and showing where everyone involved is now.
For the next 10 weeks, expect more and more stories throughout the media revisiting this subject. Just. Get. Used. To. It. Now. Perhaps the moderators should allow a single thread on the subject and let it grow to a 1000 pages, because this topic is about to come up a lot.
The remainder of this post was going to be a rant about several other parts of the judging scandal mess. I waited a day before replying, and I'm glad I did (like usual). For a whole host of reasons, I'm going to stop here, but with one final thought:
The entire judging scandal mess is big, and therefore has many different angles to it. Subtopics, perhaps I should call them. When any given subtopic arises, people talk about all the subtopics together, and interchange them. For example, the question of whether awarding the duplicate medals was the right thing to do is a different subject entirely from the question of who was better. One is a procedural issue, one is an artistic opinion. But far too many people can't separate them in their minds, and allow their opinion of who was better color their opinion of procedure. That is only one example. It does get tiring, and it's one reason I'm going to stop here -- my post is about the subtopic of public perception. To rant further would be to lump everything together, which is a form of disorganization, and one of the greatest and most common mistakes of public discussion.
I don't know. Maybe GoldenSkate needs an entire forum called 2002 Olympic Judging Scandal and people can just go there to argue.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
and it goes on...
please please people let's refrain from taking cheap shots at each side, if need be go back and reread the guidelines...
please please people let's refrain from taking cheap shots at each side, if need be go back and reread the guidelines...
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I find it hilarious that people are so sympathetic to Sale and Pelletier for being given only silver, when Berezhnaya/Sikharlidze had one small mistake and one tight landing in the routine. Yet in the past Sale/Pelletier won many performances or competitions with mistakes where Berezhnaya/Sikhardlidze were clean, and nobody said anything. At Worlds in 2001 Jamie made a major error on a side by side jump in both short and long, and still beat a clean Berezhanaya/Sikhardlidze. At the GP final in 2001, in the first free program, Sale/Pelletier made a major error on the side-by-side triple toe and Berezhnaya/Sikhardlidze skated cleanly and Sale/
Pelletier still won that program. At Worlds 2001 the veteran Canadian judge Benoit Lavoie, who is one of the most biased judges in Canada, actually had the audacity to tie Sale/Pelletier with Berezhnaya//Sikhardlidze in the short when Jamie fell out of her side-by-side triple toe(5.6, 5.9 to 5.7, 5.8)and only had the Russians ahead on the tiebreaker rule, and he had Sale/Pelletier a whopping .3 ahead of Shen/Zhou who were clean, even with that major error(5.7, 5.5; 5.7, 5.8), Shen/Zhou finished ahead of Sale/Pelletier in the short on a 5-4 split, and he was the only judge that had them so far ahead ahead. Then in the long he was the only judge to have Sale/Pelletier, who won the event on a 6-3 split a full .3 ahead of Berezhnaya/Sikhardlidze, even with Jamie's mistake(5.7, 5.8; 5.9, 5.9). Mr. Lavoie is clearly a bad apple himself, and I bet Jamie would have to fall three times, and Elena and Anton would have to be squeeky clean for him to even consider the Russians being ahead on his card. Also clearly there is no sympathy towards the Russians to lose events despite clean performances, and Sale/Pelletier continually missing side-by-sides, at many events prior to SLC. Just my two cents.
As I said I actually really like Sale/Pelletier's skating, and I am glad I get to see them do some pro things on TV, but I dont miss them much from amateur skating at all, since their nauseating arrogance, whining, and special treatment they seem to milk, was of huge annoyance as a viewer. The only reason I might wish slightly they were still around is to pull up a now very diminished pairs field.
Pelletier still won that program. At Worlds 2001 the veteran Canadian judge Benoit Lavoie, who is one of the most biased judges in Canada, actually had the audacity to tie Sale/Pelletier with Berezhnaya//Sikhardlidze in the short when Jamie fell out of her side-by-side triple toe(5.6, 5.9 to 5.7, 5.8)and only had the Russians ahead on the tiebreaker rule, and he had Sale/Pelletier a whopping .3 ahead of Shen/Zhou who were clean, even with that major error(5.7, 5.5; 5.7, 5.8), Shen/Zhou finished ahead of Sale/Pelletier in the short on a 5-4 split, and he was the only judge that had them so far ahead ahead. Then in the long he was the only judge to have Sale/Pelletier, who won the event on a 6-3 split a full .3 ahead of Berezhnaya/Sikhardlidze, even with Jamie's mistake(5.7, 5.8; 5.9, 5.9). Mr. Lavoie is clearly a bad apple himself, and I bet Jamie would have to fall three times, and Elena and Anton would have to be squeeky clean for him to even consider the Russians being ahead on his card. Also clearly there is no sympathy towards the Russians to lose events despite clean performances, and Sale/Pelletier continually missing side-by-sides, at many events prior to SLC. Just my two cents.
As I said I actually really like Sale/Pelletier's skating, and I am glad I get to see them do some pro things on TV, but I dont miss them much from amateur skating at all, since their nauseating arrogance, whining, and special treatment they seem to milk, was of huge annoyance as a viewer. The only reason I might wish slightly they were still around is to pull up a now very diminished pairs field.
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- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
kyla2 said:
I'm an American and my whole family thinks I'm crazy for defending B&S's rightful gold. They kept pointing out Anton's "stumble" when my friend Marsha points out that his foot never touched the ice. Course my family also called Anassina/Peizerat "communists" LOL!
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I don't remember it being a joke, but I may be remembering this incorrectly. They showed an entire process by which those silver medals were being converted into gold medals. At least that is what is stuck in my head--which in this matter, must be orbiting Pluto!ATW27 said:
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
Yes, I'm American. And I'm tired of the Russian robotic style in pairs. *You* may find it artistic, I find it utterly disconnected from the audience, which defeats the purpose of an artistic presentation. If this were just a tricks competition, fine. But giving them higher presentation marks? Absurd. B/S are not as bad as T/M, but they're not much better, either. I also didn't make up "Skate-in-the-Head" (check out the book "The Second Mark.") I'm not going to give her a pass on what I consider uninspired skating because she got kicked in the head by her ex-partner (or because she was apparently in an abusive relationship with said ex-partner.) That's unfortunate, Totmianina getting tossed down the ice is unfortunate, but feeling sorry for them doesn't mean proclaiming them magnificent artists when they're not, no matter how much sports reporters like a good underdog story. They strike me as wooden. YMMV. As far as I'm concerned, they weren't particularly great--no spark, no interest, no real artistry beyond precision. I don't watch either of those pairs and buy that they are emotionally involved in the least.
And again--the judges cheated. There is no quesiton about that. S/P *were* judged unfairly because it was already set that they would not win. They had a great deal to complain about, as do, frankly, a lot of ice dancers over the years (for the record I'm not including Torvill/Dean '94 in that--where I was sitting, Usova/Zhulin were the ones who should have won but that was a rare case where it really could have gone any which way.)
And again--the judges cheated. There is no quesiton about that. S/P *were* judged unfairly because it was already set that they would not win. They had a great deal to complain about, as do, frankly, a lot of ice dancers over the years (for the record I'm not including Torvill/Dean '94 in that--where I was sitting, Usova/Zhulin were the ones who should have won but that was a rare case where it really could have gone any which way.)
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