COI Ice Review / Rant / Slanted Opinion | Page 4 | Golden Skate

COI Ice Review / Rant / Slanted Opinion

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
antmanb said:
I don't think its too outlandish to say that Kwan competing in 2010 is a little bit far fetched. I, as much as anyone, would absolutely love her to be there and would be rooting for her every last bit, but the realist in me says that given her injuries now, keeping up the training required to be competitive and getting back on the US worlds team and staying there for another four years, would likely finish up breaking her body before she can get there. Look at the number of skaters who once they start getting injuries are plagued by them until in the end they're forced to leave the elligible ranks. I really do hope she can get there but i just don't think the dream will become reality.

Ant

I agree with your post, but I think you misinterpreted mine. I was replying only
to another poster's opinion that Michelle is delusional.
 

nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I agree with Ant, Joe. What exactly are you trying to say?
It sounds to me that you are rather bitter about Michelle these days. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I thought you were a big fan of hers. As such, I can't understand the almost accusatory attitude you seem to have about her not competing.
What I have been saying for well over a year now is precisely what has happened this season with her. We now know that she has been suffering from nagging injuries since the 2003/2004 season, and would NOT have been able to continue competing these past three years if she had done a full schedule. Clearly that was her goal ... to be able to extend her eligible career. But when she had to go full force (this past season), her body said no. No one would work as hard as she did from last June, right up until she had to withdraw in Torino, unless they loved the sport and competing. Physcially she could just not do it. Now her injuries are bad enough that they have placed restrictions on what she can do, and I don't believe she or her doctors know for sure just how well she will ever be. It's certainly possible she could come back for a season or two if she can get healthy ... and I totally believe that's what she wants ... but there is no way to know right now. So we all wait, and yes it's frustrating because we love her and want to see her, but I never question her desire ... and it makes me a little sad that it seems you do. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Joesitz said:
And the hope goes on.

More than anything we are not going to be informed of the status of her hurting. It's 'one day at a time', and 'I love to compete', but I will not compete except under contractual terms. Does this not sum it up?

Joe

First off, if Michelle feels she needs to restrict her competition schedule due to the stresses of traveling and competing on her body that has undergone years of wear and tear, and she HAS to show up at certain events, can you blame her for sticking with that plan, especially when she doesn't have to leave the country, or compete over 2-3 days? It's pretty obvious the skaters DO take Cheesfests seriously-they always want to win no matter what, and they do get feedback, so IMO, doing a cheesfest over a GP event is still better than just skating shows/pro-ams.

I am one who wishes we knew the every day ongoings of Michelle Kwan's life. But I am also one who respects her privacy and believe she has no obligation to the public to let us know:

A) how badly she's injured or hurting, even what exactly IS hurting, the diagnosis, prognosis of treatment plan, and
B) if she plans to compete in the fall, or if she's committed to Vancover.

"Ilovetocompete" vs "AmIhealthyenoughttocompete"-I'm sure Michelle wishes she was healthy enough to be throwing her jumps out there during COI. I'm sure Michelle is hoping she CAN continue til 2010. But I'm betting Michelle, at this very point, is not healthy enough to do so if the season started tomorrow and therefore cannot make any "maybes" where the fall season is concerned.

On top of that, why does she owe us private, personal details? Even Sasha, who has an online blog for all who wish to read, is very private about her skating details. I mean, coming into Nationals and the Olympics, all you read was how great her training was going, how she's right on track and may have "finally" found the right program. After the season was over, suddenly, she had an injury, jump issues and equipment problems...Point is, you just never know until it actually happens anyway!
 
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antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
demarinis5 said:
I agree with your post, but I think you misinterpreted mine. I was replying only
to another poster's opinion that Michelle is delusional.

Oh i see - agree with you there :)

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
nymkfan51 said:
I agree with Ant, Joe. What exactly are you trying to say?
It sounds to me that you are rather bitter about Michelle these days. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I thought you were a big fan of hers. As such, I can't understand the almost accusatory attitude you seem to have about her not competing.
What I have been saying for well over a year now is precisely what has happened this season with her. We now know that she has been suffering from nagging injuries since the 2003/2004 season, and would NOT have been able to continue competing these past three years if she had done a full schedule. Clearly that was her goal ... to be able to extend her eligible career. But when she had to go full force (this past season), her body said no. No one would work as hard as she did from last June, right up until she had to withdraw in Torino, unless they loved the sport and competing. Physcially she could just not do it. Now her injuries are bad enough that they have placed restrictions on what she can do, and I don't believe she or her doctors know for sure just how well she will ever be. It's certainly possible she could come back for a season or two if she can get healthy ... and I totally believe that's what she wants ... but there is no way to know right now. So we all wait, and yes it's frustrating because we love her and want to see her, but I never question her desire ... and it makes me a little sad that it seems you do. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Very well put - i agree with everything you've written here.

Ant
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
No one can know exactly what MK desires, we can only speculate. To me it seems like even though she can't really compete any more, she seems to really want to. If she can do it, more power to her.
 

Theatregirl1122

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Not to accidentally say something on the topic of the thread instead of Michelle Kwan :biggrin:

I went to see COI in Hartford tonight. I don't have technical notes because I wouldn't be any good at them anyways, but I can comment on some of the mistakes/changes that were made tonight.

First, let me point out that my mother is a costume designer, so that is where much of her commentary comes from.

Rudy Galindo- All together too gimmick-y for me. He is practically one of the acrobats now. Mom loves him. She always has. Actually at the end when he was skating under the pink lights in all the sparkles he reminded me of a teacher I used to have at the theatre who wore a sweater that color and informed me quite seriously that it was "raspberry". Probably just because of the color and the flamboyance.

Surya Bonaly- She was my favorite of the older skaters. She, of course, got a great audience reaction to his back flip every time she did it. Her costume was quite confusing from far away. (About 20 rows back)

Dan Hollander- I actually rather enjoyed this. The punch line was good.

Gregory and Petukhov- They train in Simsbury, I assume that's why they were here. I know nothing about Ice Dancing. They skated to Impossible Dream. It was probably my favorite of the Ice Dancers. (They looked very nice as well) Didn’t rival Shen and Zhao's at least for me.

Kimmie- I have to mention a glaring error in the program to start with. The programs were printed before worlds so I don't object to that, however they list Evan as the National Silver and Bronze Medalist and they list Johnny as the 3 time US champion but they only list Kimmie as the bronze Medalist. She was pretty good. She popped two jumps but she got her 2-2-2 and did well on the other parts. She does seem to have grown up. I do wish that she had been doing something other than "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" She's been doing it all season.

Johnny- I love "My Way" I think that it really is a great program. Maybe it's just because I'm a Johnny fan, but I did feel engaged with the program. He's very amusing in the group numbers. He wore his LP costume from COR and Nationals tonight rather than the "My Way" costume. Johnny is one of the few male skaters who can pull off a body suit really well. I'm reminded of Tim's this year when I say that. Mom wanted to take him home. (This is a quirk we picked up years ago. I think it started because I am an only child. When we like someone and feel they would be nice to have around, we say we want to take them home. This applies to friends, movie starts, pets, pretty much anyone)

Tanith and Ben- They appear to have dumped the Skating with Celebrities idea. They skated to their OD tonight. Mom wondered where the rest of her dress went. I don't know anything about ice dance, but it seemed good.

Petrenko- This was pretty good, I wasn't too engaged, maybe because I never saw him skate competitively. Why is it that all male skaters on this tour who aren't eligible skaters any more seem to have to take off their clothing?

Anissina and Peizerat- Again, I know nothing about Ice Dance. They skated with a shawl, my mom went to the bath room.

Intermission

Hula-Hoop Girl (Irina Grigorian)- I went and got a snack for this one, sorry. I was there for most of the time. She managed to catch an edge and fall near the beginning of her program; right after the zamboni had gone out. It was pretty good though. I at least find this more worthwhile than the acrobats.

Evan- Everyone was right, this is a great program. Audience loved it. He comes across as fun and I suppose he's gimmick-y enough for those who need it, but it's not over the top. One of my few complaints about this show was that there weren't many upbeat numbers like Evan's. It was either really gimmick-y (yep, I'm going to invent that word twice) or a really slow song. He did fall on his flying camel (just seemed to loose the edge when he landed) but he bounced back up really fast and gave a really energetic performance. Mom also decided we were taking Evan home. (Never seems to want to take home any of the Ladies, though)

Irina- I like her so much better in person than I do on TV. She seemed very happy. I think I get more why people like her. Mom liked the program as well but feels that the costume was made up of four bad ideas- 1) The cut, 2) the fringe, 3) The back, 4) the sleeves.

Besedin and Polishchuk (Acrobats)- We spend this period of time deciding what we would rather be doing. Started with seeing another program from the Olympic Champions or adding more skaters, moved on to going home ten minutes early, ended up with watching paint dry. I really do hate this act, and it just goes on forever. They were actually pretty good in the finally.

Grushina and Goncharov- They also train in Simsbury. I think they skated their OD. They music was definitely Latin. Mom liked the costumes. They were bright pink, although we though the pink was a little much for Goncharov.

Totmyanina and Marinin- I don't usually like these guys, I find them sort of angry. However, tonight they really did give the performance of the night. They looked great, skated really well, and clearly have a monopoly on the whole pair skater thing. This show needs more pairs. The audience loved them.
Sasha- Nice performance of this piece, I always think that it is sort of contrived to use Patriotic music on this tour. She also got a big audience reaction. She did in fact jump. It was only once and it may have been a loop, but I wasn't in a good position to see it. Mom loves this costume. She would like to remind the people who have complained about Sasha's plunging necklines being bad for her figure that necklines that low are made for girls with no chest. It's something designers often use. A girl with a chest couldn't wear a neckline like that.

Plushenko- Plushenko actually fell tonight. I haven't seen him do that in a long time. He was very dynamic and the audience was totally behind him. Even though I hate the fact that he is no where near sitting on his sit spin, you just can't take your eyes off him. I've known a million actors who would kill for that kind of presence. He had a bit of an edge since he was skating a competitive program. I still think that parts of this program are better when you mute the sound so that you can't hear that the footwork doesn't match the music. Mom really wanted to take him home. She has a Russian student who will be vary angry that we got to see Plushenko in person. (Mom's student is also mad that he's married to someone other than her.)

Michelle- Good performance, no jumps obviously. The audience was still very into it. She got the best audience reaction. My mom thought that Plushenko should have skated last, since Michelle didn't even skate competitively this year.

I don't particularly have anything to add to the statements on this thread/in this forum about the group numbers. They were good, well performed, and the costumes didn't bother me that much. It's nice to see everyone skating together. I noticed that, although she's in the opening, Kimmie's not in the closing. I can understand why. The timing of the finally was pretty tightly choreographed.

As far as the venue: More than half empty. If I were the USFSA I might be a bit nervous about holding the Grand Prix here. It is a big venue, might have been pretty full if there were no nose bleed section.

I’ve pretty much figured out exactly where you would want to sit (I’ve been there a zillion times) so if anyone wants to know when buying SA tickets, let me know. A word of advice, the nose bleed section is literally impossible to see from. I sat there a few years ago and it really consisted of small dots and wondering who was who and how they were doing.

This was quite long, wasn't it?

So, in summary, Sasha jumped, Plushenko fell, my world was rocked just a little bit.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
nymkfan51 said:
I agree with Ant, Joe. What exactly are you trying to say?
It sounds to me that you are rather bitter about Michelle these days. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I thought you were a big fan of hers. As such, I can't understand the almost accusatory attitude you seem to have about her not competing.
What I have been saying for well over a year now is precisely what has happened this season with her. We now know that she has been suffering from nagging injuries since the 2003/2004 season, and would NOT have been able to continue competing these past three years if she had done a full schedule. Clearly that was her goal ... to be able to extend her eligible career. But when she had to go full force (this past season), her body said no. No one would work as hard as she did from last June, right up until she had to withdraw in Torino, unless they loved the sport and competing. Physcially she could just not do it. Now her injuries are bad enough that they have placed restrictions on what she can do, and I don't believe she or her doctors know for sure just how well she will ever be. It's certainly possible she could come back for a season or two if she can get healthy ... and I totally believe that's what she wants ... but there is no way to know right now. So we all wait, and yes it's frustrating because we love her and want to see her, but I never question her desire ... and it makes me a little sad that it seems you do. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
nymkfan51 - Like so many mk fans (I am one) I love to see her skate in exhibition as well as competition - but competition is the most important to me.
I still believe she is hurting and has been for some time. That is a sad state of affairs but apparently that is keeping her from competitive pursuits. Yet it does not prevent her from continuing her skating contractual obligations without any worry toward how bad they may affect her body. I can't believe that "they" as you called them put restrictions on what she can and can not do. How do 'they' know about skating twists and turns on the ice as well as in the air?

I never heard of skaters with injuries doing partial skating. Skaters as far as I know stop skating till the injury is healed and then do some careful partial skating to get back into shape. It's not easy and if Michelle was waiting off the ice to be healed I could understand this better. But she continues to skate with little trouble without jumps, and only without jumps. Fine is she getting better? Would it be faster if she stopped skating all together for a year? None of us know the answers. They are not discussed openly. The rumor has it that she signed for another 4 years with COI. How bad can she be hurting?

Yes, I am the skeptic. I know some fans are all for her skating the Olys in 2010 but to me that is more like wanting to see her skate more than it is to see her compete. I will continue to think of Kwan's competitive days with a raised eyebrow and have no objection to some of her fans holding on to the hope that she will be back in shape eventually. I'd like that too, but..............

Joe
 

rob43

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
I would think most skating and jumping are two different things to a doctor looking at her injuries.

Movement is one thing- but landing jumps with both vertical and horizontal movement (as well as picking or twitching into jumps) really is a lot of force for a body to absorb. Apparently she is showing none of the new spins she supposedly worked on- so maybe she is also be advised to avoid certain positions.

I would think you could nurse the hip/groin whicle skating if jumps/takeoffs/landings/extreme positions were avoided. If she has a bum knee of ankle then I would find this ability to skate even jumpless programs iffy.

I alsi think she is taking it slow after having 3 injuries within about 6 months.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
So my big question for Kwanfans is this: do you just want to see her SKATE, or do you want to see her COMPETE? And if it's the latter, just to see her out on competition ice or to see her win again?

simple questions.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
That's easy, Red Dog. Any or all of the above. If she is able to compete again and win something, that's super. :love:

If she can go out there and give it the old college try, but someone else wins, good for her. :love:

If she decides to skate in exhibitions and shows, I'm there. :love:

If she retires tomorrow, she's given us a decade of beautiful memories. :love:

If she stays in the public eye as a skating commentor, if she tries acting or goes into politics :) , or into charitable works, or if she gets married and lives happily ever after, :rock: :love:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
of course, but what do YOU desire for her in your heart of hearts? There has to be one outcome you'd prefer over the other, right? As a fan that's always the case. You support her in whatever she does, but you secretly wish a certain outcome. Am I right? (I think I sound like Joe now...)
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I just went to the Boston show. Instead of typing up everything myself, I'll just comment on TheaterGirl's comments

Theatregirl1122 said:
Rudy Galindo- All together too gimmick-y for me.
ITA

Surya Bonaly- She was my favorite of the older skaters. She, of course, got a great audience reaction to his back flip every time she did it
Didn't actually enjoy her too much. Seemed it was just doing her old tricks.

Dan Hollander- I actually rather enjoyed this. The punch line was good.
Found him very boring...

Gregory and Petukhov- They train in Simsbury, I assume that's why they were here. I know nothing about Ice Dancing. They skated to Impossible Dream. It was probably my favorite of the Ice Dancers.
No, they were in Boston as well. I'm assuming it has something to do with Lambiel NOT being there. I enjoyed their performance a great deal. They are nice, clean, and they skated with emotion.

Kimmie- [...] She does seem to have grown up.
I agree. I am not a fan by any stretch of imagination, but found myself enjoying the program a lot. She has a very pleasing understated quality to her skating.

Johnny- I love "My Way" I think that it really is a great program. Maybe it's just because I'm a Johnny fan, but I did feel engaged with the program. He's very amusing in the group numbers.
ITA. He skated with a lot of emotion. I am not sure how much he managed to connect with the audience, but he was great!

Tanith and Ben-
Enjoyed them like always. However, I think now that they are at the elite level already, I really want them to tackle more serious programs. Even if it's more difficult, I want to see them try; I think that's the only way they'll ever become the truly great ice dancers they can be.

This was pretty good, I wasn't too engaged, maybe because I never saw him skate competitively. Why is it that all male skaters on this tour who aren't eligible skaters any more seem to have to take off their clothing?
I enjoyed Victor's skate more than the other "old timers", but I agree that it wasn't too engaging.

Anissina and Peizerat- Again, I know nothing about Ice Dance. They skated with a shawl, my mom went to the bath room.
To me, Anissina & Peizerat were THE highlight of the whole show. I got goose bumps from their program. It reminded me of what great ice dance could be. While some of what they do was "tricks" (such as her carrying him), they had an overall wonderful quality to their program. Overall, it's far less gimmicky than most of the current eligible ice dancing.

Hula-Hoop Girl (Irina Grigorian)- [...] It was pretty good though. I at least find this more worthwhile than the acrobats.
ITA

Evan- Everyone was right, this is a great program. Audience loved it. He comes across as fun and I suppose he's gimmick-y enough for those who need it, but it's not over the top.
I actually did not like that he did not have one coherent program, but just three disjointed pieces instead.

Irina- I like her so much better in person than I do on TV. She seemed very happy.
I, too, think that the power of her skatingh is far better appreciated live than on TV.

Besedin and Polishchuk (Acrobats)- [...] I really do hate this act, and it just goes on forever. They were actually pretty good in the finally.
ITA. The fact that they were good in the finale shows that what they normally do on ice is exactly what the audience wnats.

Grushina and Goncharov-
Normally I like this team a lot, but I don't think they were really "on" today. Didn't really connect to the audience.

Totmyanina and Marinin- I don't usually like these guys, I find them sort of angry. However, tonight they really did give the performance of the night. They looked great, skated really well, and clearly have a monopoly on the whole pair skater thing. This show needs more pairs. The audience loved them.
Can't say enough good thinks about their skate. I think their competition consistency came at a price of emotion on the ice. They were too often what Peggy called "too tight". Not so in the show. They were lyrical, tender, and connected very well to the audience. There wasn't too much applause when they were first announced, but a lot of it when they finished.

Sasha- Nice performance of this piece, I always think that it is sort of contrived to use Patriotic music on this tour. She also got a big audience reaction. She did in fact jump. It was only once and it may have been a loop, but I wasn't in a good position to see it.
She skated wonderfully. Connected well to the audience, and got a partial standing ovation.

Plushenko-[...] I haven't seen him do that in a long time. He was very dynamic and the audience was totally behind him. Even though I hate the fact that he is no where near sitting on his sit spin, you just can't take your eyes off him. I've known a million actors who would kill for that kind of presence. He had a bit of an edge since he was skating a competitive program. I still think that parts of this program are better when you mute the sound so that you can't hear that the footwork doesn't match the music.
Great performance. Connection to the audience was palpable. A few people got up when he was done, but no full SO.

Michelle- Good performance, no jumps obviously. The audience was still very into it. She got the best audience reaction.
Actually, Michelle didn't really seem "on" today (may be she was saving herself for the evening show). After Sasha and Evgeny the audience was ready to errupt in chear, but that just did not happen.

I don't particularly have anything to add to the statements on this thread/in this forum about the group numbers. They were good, well performed, and the costumes didn't bother me that much. It's nice to see everyone skating together.
Interesting to watch different skaters in the group numbers. Marinin seems uncomfortable doing such generic choreography. OTOH, Anissina seemed to really get into the character of the lady with the umbrella very well. Sasha, Tanith, and Victor seemed among the most "into it" skaters (this is from what I could see; may be others were as well). Also in the opening number you could see Kimmie's lack of experience as an etertainer. She seemed more shy, more restrained than her older teammates (I'm sure this will all change by next season).

As far as the venue: More than half empty. If I were the USFSA I might be a bit nervous about holding the Grand Prix here.
Hard to say about Boston Garden (I don't care what they call it nowaday - BankNorth Garden I believe...)... The lodges ($75 tickets) were fairly well filled up (though not NEARLY to capacity). The cheaper seats were mainly empty. Then again, there were two performances that day, I went to the earlier one, and my guess is that the evening one should have been better filled.
 
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Eeyora

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
my review that I also posted on MKF- I am exhausted

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also just got back from Boston, I got two high fives from Evan as well and high fives from Victor, Yvgeni, Surya, Annisinna and Peizerat and Ruslan Goncharov. None from Michelle though. I don't blame her because I screamed a lot through her performance. I just love her. I could watch her perform for hours. I love that she brought back the Charlotte. I saw it twice. She was stunning.

Other highlights were Johnny- He definately has the whole package. Kimmies number was nice. She is a breath of fresh air. T/M were a pleasant surprise. I love the Phantom of the Opera program and the lifts and jumps were amazing. Tatiana was even smiling that the program was well received. Evan's program was fun and Evgeni is truly a master of the sport. Once again I was reminded by Annisina and Peizerat how much I miss their skating. Victor's the Birth of the Blues really suited his style.Irina's program was entertaining but she struggled with her jumps.


It was nice the see Gregory and Petukov and Grushina and Goncharov.

As much as I liked Tanith and Ben's original Dance I wanted to see their Skating with Celebrities Spoof. Sasha's program was kinda schmaltzy for my taste. It reminded me of the Miss America pageant. I was dissapointed that the acrobats went back to the routine which I have seen them do three times before. However I even enojoyed the lows.
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
I also attended the 2:00 p..m . Boston show yesterday. I won't give individual reviews as other posters have already done that. It was good to finally see Michelle, Sasha and Irina live since they are my favorites. The section that I was sitting in was great because the people around us did have a clue about figure skating and there was a lot of cheering and applause going on. It was
a very good show . The only act that I disliked were
the acrobats.

Now I am going to gush about T/M. I never was crazy about this pair team. They always seemed stiff to me, but not yesterday. This was the star performance of the afternoon for me.They had so much emotion and passion in their skating that I was mesmerized, When they took their bows the audience went crazy (at least where I was sitting) people were yelling Bravo. Simply put the were Magnificent.

Sorry no photos.
 

STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
I too was at the 2 pm Boston show. I would've gone to the Albany show but it was originally scheduled when I would be out of town and then the show ended up being cancelled. so we went to Boston, which worked out lovely since my sister and stepmom were in town that w/e all the way from CA!

I like the acrobats but they had better numbers in the past. I liked the faster ones, this season's is just way too slow, and the monotone music didn't help. I understand it was supposed to be that way but still.. I think the audiene gave them one of the loudest ovations of the evening. They clearly love the "tricks" and that's why Rudy got a lot of crowd reaction, and there wasn't that much skating.

I was surprised that there was only 1 pairs team. Anybody knows why there is no Chinese participation? You would think that John and Rena would be on the show too! I guess they will participate in the West Coast shows. And why was Stephane missing?

But I was happy to see Denis and Melissa and Ruslan and Yelena.

Marina and Gwendal were fantastic!!!! I loved that program. The reverse lift seems much longer than usual. She is such a tiny lady but is so strong!

For me, the highlight of the show was Johnny. I just love this guy and love Frank Sinatra, and the combo is simply magnificent!

I had a great time and I hope next time COI are near Albany, it is a weekend show!

Theater girl - I will definitely need your advice! I will drive down for the Friday, Sat and Sun portion of the SA. Thanks :)
 
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