RA interview with MK mentions

demarinis5 · Dec 20, 2006

Skate Sandee said:
Hell, I've always had a feeling that many sports writers that cover figure skating have had a stock article on file with glowing superlatives about a Sasha win - all ready to go with a few minor tweaks. Just sitting on a hard drive in a file somewhere. Judges were itching to give her the wins and reporters were itching to write about her wins. She just fell short (no pun intended) when it always appeared that "this time" was going to be the one where she realized her potential.

There's no arguing that Michelle has garnered the lion's share of attention. But that's the way it is in any sport. Once an athlete crosses that invisible line to being regarded as the top in a particular sport for any length of time, it's normal to see that person a focus of the media. MK certainly earned it. If you want to grumble about the attention she gets, look at the media machine, not Kwan. If anything, MK is private to the point of being a hermit by comparison to many top athletes. No official website. No online journals to update her fans. Very little revealed in her interviews. No one can point to Kwan as feeding her own media machine. She seems to go out of her way to only do as much media is as necessary or requested in a competitive situation. Ironically, her silence or less-than-forthcoming answers only seem to drive the speculation. So whether she's out in front or not, media is going to focus attention on her. So "hate the game, not the player".

Thank You!. Great Post!!!

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 20, 2006

Red Dog - Looks like your back in business with the old Cohen v. Kwan which bugs you so much. Why bring up Sasha on an important thread as to the state of Kwan's injuries for the past several years?

More people than you realize love Sasha and others acknowledge how wonderfully her skating has developed. She had full media blitz for Nats and Torino. Unfortunately, her bronze at Worlds didn't live up to the hype. However, her fans have not given up on her, and everyone is looking to a successful movie career for her. Kimmie didn't rock the pages in New York as much as Tara and Sarah.

Michelle is a special case on having a majority of fans in the United States. You should not let that bother you. Sasha is a great skater and there is more to come. She is not injured.

Back to Michelle, and the Rafael Report!!! which is what this thread is about.

Joe

heyang · Dec 20, 2006

krenseby said:
Well, as lovely as Kwan is, the Kwan mania has ruined Cohen's career.

All the merits of Michelle's skating aside, Sasha, one of the most accomplished American singles skaters ever, has been neglected in the media during the Kwan reign.

Sasha has had a more impressive record as a skater than Nancy Kerrigan. But it is Nancy who is much much better known.

Heck, even Nicole Bobeck has more fame than Sasha.

This is because Kwan coverage has sucked up so much media air there was no room for Sasha!

Sasha's lack of attention is due to her inability to stand up when it counted. If she had the competetive record even close to Kwan's, she would have gotten more of the media attention you feel she deserves. No one has ever questioned that Sasha is a beautiful skater, but she also has left us holding our breath in trepidation of another fall.

Sasha has also been unfortunate in timing. Since SLC (perhaps even a little earlier than that), skating's ratings have been going downhill. Lower ratings = less media attention.

Nancy Kerrigan will always be famous due to the whack heard around the world - it's really got little to do with her competitive record. If not for that incident, Nancy would likely just have been another 2 time Olympic Silver Medalist and multiple National medal winner.

That whack was probably the one incident that helped Ice Skating's image as a sport. That it's so competitive that people would stoop to crime. It also helped that charismatic skaters such as Hamilton, Browning, Yamaguchi, Boitano etc had turned pro.

As for Nicole Bobeck, I certainly don't consider her has having gotten more media attention than Sasha. If anything, she might be more infamous for her exploits off the ice. She's also another skater that didn't live up to her potential with regards to titles IMO.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 20, 2006

Heyang - I wouldn't worry about hype. in the last analysis either a skater lives up to it or doesn't. What does matter is whether your favorite skater wins or not.

Joe

Fossi · Dec 20, 2006

Michelle didn't ruin anyone's careers! If they wanted to beat her, they had to skate for it. Some were capable, SARAH!!, others werent', SASHA! It's not Michelle's fault that Sasha couldn't live up to teamCohen's PR hype machine. When she faultered people got sick of it because she was expected to be the very best skater to ever hit the ice. There are a select few that have beaten Michelle and they worked hard for it. Maybe Michelle got more attention at '04 Worlds because Sasha made mistakes AGAIN and Kwan beat her in the LP.
I resent JimmyHoffa's post saying that Hughes fans are happy about this Kwan news. I am fan of the Hughes and this news won't make me happy. Not a bit. Nobody wants to see a champion get injured in this way. That would just be cruel and inhumane. I doun't doubt there are some fans celebrating, but those aren't your stable skating fans.
I know I contributed, but how insenstive to turn this thread into a poor Sasha Cohen thread. We all know some people really believe she was the victim of Kwan since she hit the ice, but that's not reality. Sasha was a victm of her own hype and her own inconsistencies. Kwan had nothing to do with that. And THIS SARAH fan wishes only the best for Michelle, just as Sarah would.

Mathman · Dec 20, 2006

Joesitz said:
Back to... the Rafael Report!!! which is what this thread is about.

Joe, here are a couple of excerpts about Arutunian's coaching experiences. (Original interview and article by Yelena Vaitsekhovskaya, translation by Nadya at FSU.)

Q. Would you like a guarantee of sorts that she (Mao Asada) won’t leave you?

A. That’s not what it’s about. Any coach, not just me, always has a number of skaters. If there’s a strong skater in the group who needs to travel to many events, there’s a higher chance of losing everyone else. While the coach is working with a star student, he or she is typically not hurting for money. But if the star student leaves, the coach may lose everything. Because in the U.S., you need to pay the bills whether or not you have enough work...

Skaters here [I think "here" means "here in Russia"] are very different as well. You don’t need to make them work, they always know very well what they want. That’s another thing you need to learn if you live in the U.S. You need to remember that you are not a dictator, not a parent, but just that, a coach. You can suggest things, but can’t insist.... You can’t tell your skaters “you must”, because from their early days, they are raised with the expectation of having no obligations to anyone or anything...

More about money:

I believe that Japanese ladies have access to bottomless coffers.

Asada is already under contract with IMG, and that’s a good thing. I pray to God we will one day understand that talented athletes need not just professional working conditions, but proper financial management, so that they have a chance to think of nothing but practice. Japanese figure skating association has a wonderful policy in this regard.

Q. I noticed that Japanese skaters at events are always surrounded by crowds of officials. That was the case with Arakawa when she trained with Tarasova and with Fumie Suguri when she was with Oleg Vassiliev, and now with Asada. Is this the way to control a foreign coach?

A. No, more likely a way to show care. I personally am feeling that attention as well. Wherever we train, they always have water bottles and Kleenex ready. And they always ask if “everything is all right.”

At the same time, I believe that if the Japanese federation stops being happy with me, I will be replaced with no calms at all.

R.D. · Dec 20, 2006

Joesitz- you're right and great post. :yes:

antmanb · Dec 21, 2006

lisadotdash said:
She ruined a lot of careers, IMO. I can't count the number of competitions I saw Kwan's name and went "Oh geez, I know who's going to win." But yes, specifically Cohen, her beauty (yes inside and out) and her positions, were just lost under the hype of MK and I think on or off the ice, Sasha will do much better than MK.

What you mean like 2004 worlds? Or 2005 worlds?

Or was that Arakawa and Slutskaya's turn to ruin careers? Damn those pesky skaters skating well enough to win the gold!!

Ant

antmanb · Dec 21, 2006

krenseby said:
You merely prove my point. Skaters should not overshadow other capable skaters merely on celebrity.

When Cohen was doing a lot better than Kwan, she should have been in the spotlight and Kwan out of it.

Same for Meissner. If Meissner is doing better than Cohen she should get the attention. Incidentally ever since her Worlds win, Meissner has garnered more media attention than Cohen and rightly so!

I only wish that Sasha could have been more celebrated and accoladed than Michelle was, when she started beating Michelle. It's only fair.

What does any of it have to do with their skating?

Lamenting Cohen not having as much media exposure is fruitless. Its like being upset that Nicole Kidman doesn't get asmuch media attnetion as Jennifer Anniston...who cares? Its their skating that matters not their media exposure.

Part of the reason Kwan's had that much exposure is that she was skating on senior circuit for 12 years. That's more than most skaters and certainly more than Cohen (or any other US skater for that matter). She brought in the results very consistenetly for a good 9 or 10 of those 12 years and even when Kwan faltered, Cohen didn't bring home the big one. Meissner is yound and new on the scene but she got the gold at worlds and, if she has a 12 year run in seniors brining in the results then i'm sure she'll get the same kind of media attnetion.

It isn't rocket science to see why one skater is more loved by the media than another. You may not think that's fair, but that's life.

Ant

MKFSfan · Dec 21, 2006

How does a thread meant to show how much pain Michelle was in turn to a "Michelle ruined Sasha's career!" debate??? Sasha got her share of hype and media exposure. I agree with those who said had Sasha just one one major event, she'd be the media darling at the time. But alas, she didn't, so while she was NOT ignored for winning her silvers, Michelle, as the sentimental favorite was not overlooked. Sasha's misfortunes was coming along just when Michelle's career hit it's peak an she just could not overtake Michelle, either competively or in the hearts of the majority of fans. And also, for coming along at a time that figure skating was losing popularity. Majority of people have heard of Michelle Kwan. Some think of Kristi Y, sure, and some think Michelle won OG. But the point is, she is a household name. Sasha? Probably more know of her following the Olympics, but last week I got so many "Who was that skater in CSI? Was she a famous skater?" since a lot of co-workers/friends know I love skating.

Both skaters have had their injuries, and may be done eligible skating. I kind of expect Sasha to tunr to show skating eventually, maybe not SOI since that sort of tour would not allow her to pursue other interests and would require 100% committment, dedication. But I believe whatever route both skaters take, they will be successful.

Anyway, my intention on posting this thread was to show how injuries probably are more rampant in this sport than many athletes let on. These skaters are hard workers and have one goal in mind, to win, so they continue to pound their bodies to achieve goals. By never citing injury as the reason for limited competition, IMO, Michelle showed how courageous and determind she really is. I always thought she was playing it smart (and not safe), but now I realize how much pain she was in all this time and it makes Tosca at Nationals all the more bittersweet.

I won't predict what she will do next, but Michelle has her whole life ahead of her. With college and now her new diplomatic posotion, she is going places, opening new doors. I wish her as much success off the ice as she has had on the ice, and I know she will continue to positively impact people and make the world a better place just for being in it.

PS...for the poster about Sasha losing at a Cheesefest following 2005 Worlds-Mihelle was clean and fast, and very much Michelle in the presentation aspect. Sasha was dealing with a slight groin injury and skated tentatively, had small jumps not cleanly landed, even her spins were affected, and was clearly not herself. I was present and take my word that Michelle, for 6.0 system, was the better skater that night.

emma · Dec 21, 2006

I haven't had time to read this entire thread - so sorry if I repeat a sentiment already expressed.

A couple of things come to my mind from reading this interview - first, how interesting/candid it was - since a number of Russian intervies on FSU have a certain candor too, I wonder if it is a 'russian' style and I wonder why US (meaning born and bred or long time residents/citizens) coaches generally aren't as candid (or aren't asked these questions, or I miss the interviews...???).

I felt so sad that Michelle couldn't cap her career with a final Olympic skate - and yes, I imagined that she might even win it. I think I feel even more sad after reading this given the physical pain she was enduring to realize that 'last skate.' While we all saw the pain on tv, reading about it and its duration just makes me, at least, feel for her deeply. I do admire, though, her tenacity and do hope she has or will heal completely, and do wish her well in her future endeavors (which I'm not likely to follow with quite the intensity or passion of her competitive skating career - but thank god for video/dvd/youtoub etc so that I can revisist 'the era of kwan' just about whenever i want to).

I'm glad to hear - again I might add- that sasha was not lazy (many coaches have commented on how hard she works -- the implied or stated 'buts' to that have never been about her laziness and I get kind of sick reading that accusation), and I do think it is too bad that her professional relationship with Tarasova didn't last longer; I found Arutunian's comments about cultural style differences in the coaching-coached relationship interesting here. But it's the issue of injury I want to raise. Clearly, Sasha had some kind of injury last year too, she missed a GP event and the final as a result, and she was sporting a bandaged leg at the Olympics. I do understand that athletes push and hurt - but I can't help but wonder where the line should be drawn and if figure skating is pushing young people past that limit too regularly (I sincerely mean I wonder - i'm simply not sure).

Finally, Mao is a wonder - but I can't help but wonder again about a few things. Seems like off ice training would be important to secure overall fitness and safety on ice - is too much on ice training and too little off ice training deleterious over the long haul??? (and what is exactly the long haul in free skating with multiple triple+ jumps and difficult spin??). I can also understand shopping around and testing a coach relationship - but at what point is committing and developing a multi year training strategy better for the overall sucess and health of a skater....I just wonder what Mao's camp thinks about this AND actually what Rafael things (I mean he was clear that as a coach you must have multiple pupils, I am just wondering what he thinks is the better or more effective winning training package).

kittyjake5 · Dec 21, 2006

lisadotdash said:
She ruined a lot of careers, IMO. I can't count the number of competitions I saw Kwan's name and went "Oh geez, I know who's going to win." But yes, specifically Cohen, her beauty (yes inside and out) and her positions, were just lost under the hype of MK and I think on or off the ice, Sasha will do much better than MK.

I know. My career was ruined too. I spent so much time following Michelle's
skating for the last 12 years, by watching her on television, talking about her on the net and to other fans, going to COI and Cheezefest just to see her, playing her videos over and over. I bet I could have been a partner in my firm if I had never heard of Michelle Kwan. Darn that Michelle. (jk)

Eeyora · Dec 21, 2006

What a shame! I feel like crying after reading that article. No one deserves to go through that much pain.

antmanb · Dec 21, 2006

kittyjake5 said:
I know. My career was ruined too. I spent so much time following Michelle's
skating for the last 12 years, by watching her on television, talking about her on the net and to other fans, going to COI and Cheezefest just to see her, playing her videos over and over. I bet I could have been a partner in my firm if I had never heard of Michelle Kwan. Darn that Michelle. (jk)

Ant

R.D. · Dec 21, 2006

emma said:
I haven't had time to read this entire thread - so sorry if I repeat a sentiment already expressed.

A couple of things come to my mind from reading this interview - first, how interesting/candid it was - since a number of Russian intervies on FSU have a certain candor too, I wonder if it is a 'russian' style and I wonder why US (meaning born and bred or long time residents/citizens) coaches generally aren't as candid (or aren't asked these questions, or I miss the interviews...???).

I felt so sad that Michelle couldn't cap her career with a final Olympic skate - and yes, I imagined that she might even win it. I think I feel even more sad after reading this given the physical pain she was enduring to realize that 'last skate.' While we all saw the pain on tv, reading about it and its duration just makes me, at least, feel for her deeply. I do admire, though, her tenacity and do hope she has or will heal completely, and do wish her well in her future endeavors (which I'm not likely to follow with quite the intensity or passion of her competitive skating career - but thank god for video/dvd/youtoub etc so that I can revisist 'the era of kwan' just about whenever i want to).

I'm glad to hear - again I might add- that sasha was not lazy (many coaches have commented on how hard she works -- the implied or stated 'buts' to that have never been about her laziness and I get kind of sick reading that accusation), and I do think it is too bad that her professional relationship with Tarasova didn't last longer; I found Arutunian's comments about cultural style differences in the coaching-coached relationship interesting here. But it's the issue of injury I want to raise. Clearly, Sasha had some kind of injury last year too, she missed a GP event and the final as a result, and she was sporting a bandaged leg at the Olympics. I do understand that athletes push and hurt - but I can't help but wonder where the line should be drawn and if figure skating is pushing young people past that limit too regularly (I sincerely mean I wonder - i'm simply not sure).

Finally, Mao is a wonder - but I can't help but wonder again about a few things. Seems like off ice training would be important to secure overall fitness and safety on ice - is too much on ice training and too little off ice training deleterious over the long haul??? (and what is exactly the long haul in free skating with multiple triple+ jumps and difficult spin??). I can also understand shopping around and testing a coach relationship - but at what point is committing and developing a multi year training strategy better for the overall sucess and health of a skater....I just wonder what Mao's camp thinks about this AND actually what Rafael things (I mean he was clear that as a coach you must have multiple pupils, I am just wondering what he thinks is the better or more effective winning training package).

I think MK will go on to have a successful career in whatever she chooses to do. One thing that strikes me now is that she seems to like the adrenaline rush of competitive skating more than show skating, yet her skating style seems to imply that she would like to entertain/perform for the audience very much. I hope we can see her later on in some professional shows, but I kind of doubt it. But with an injury like that I really can't see a comeback happening- by the time she recovers (fully), it'll probably be too late. OG isn't destined for everyone but hopefully everything else that she has accomplished will console her somewhat.

And about Asada- if she really does train like that I see her more as a flash in the pan...she might win worlds next year and maybe even the year after that but afterwards, injury or some unforeseen circumstance might take her out. Or, maybe she'll lighten up on those jumps and strive more for longevity as she gets older.

kittyjake5 · Dec 21, 2006

Red Dog said:
I think MK will go on to have a successful career in whatever she chooses to do. One thing that strikes me now is that she seems to like the adrenaline rush of competitive skating more than show skating, yet her skating style seems to imply that she would like to entertain/perform for the audience very much. I hope we can see her later on in some professional shows, but I kind of doubt it. But with an injury like that I really can't see a comeback happening- by the time she recovers (fully), it'll probably be too late. OG isn't destined for everyone but hopefully everything else that she has accomplished will console her somewhat.

And about Asada- if she really does train like that I see her more as a flash in the pan...she might win worlds next year and maybe even the year after that but afterwards, injury or some unforeseen circumstance might take her out. Or, maybe she'll lighten up on those jumps and strive more for longevity as she gets older.

Nice post RD.

MKFSfan · Dec 21, 2006

kittyjake5, what a great post! :rofl:

Actually, my boyfriend has commented several times we would have had many more "quality moments" if I had never heard of Michelle...

Totally agree with your post, RD.:thumbsup:

emma · Dec 21, 2006

kittyjake5 said:
Nice post RD.

ditto:agree:

Spun Silver · Dec 21, 2006

Red Dog said:
And about Asada- if she really does train like that I see her more as a flash in the pan...she might win worlds next year and maybe even the year after that but afterwards, injury or some unforeseen circumstance might take her out. Or, maybe she'll lighten up on those jumps and strive more for longevity as she gets older.

OT but I wish those who like to complain about Sasha not practicing enough would look at it this way. I have no idea what her training methods are but having already suffered a significant back injury, and with a body that is tiny and fragile (as Tarasova said in the interview that RD mentioned here recently), she probably can't tolerate all the jumping practice that she might need, alas.

Kwanford Wife · Dec 21, 2006

kittyjake5 said:
I know. My career was ruined too. I spent so much time following Michelle's
skating for the last 12 years, by watching her on television, talking about her on the net and to other fans, going to COI and Cheezefest just to see her, playing her videos over and over. I bet I could have been a partner in my firm if I had never heard of Michelle Kwan. Darn that Michelle. (jk)

So funny & yet so true... I honestly thought I might get fired last winter when Michelle's Olympic drama severly interrupted my professional goal of world domination, one special event at a time... One cannot take over the world when one is glued to a computer screen waiting for minute-by-minute updates on the status of one's favorite sports icon... Heck, Sasha didn't stand a chance...

RA interview with MK mentions

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Joesitz (RIP)

heyang

Joesitz (RIP)

Fossi

Mathman

R.D.

antmanb

antmanb

MKFSfan

emma

kittyjake5

Eeyora

antmanb

R.D.

kittyjake5

MKFSfan

emma

Spun Silver

Kwanford Wife

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