So those at SA can say terrible things about Mira all they want- going on and on about all the things she needs to fix but as soon as someone points out an area where a US Dream Girl needs to fix theres a big outcry! Come on people have you never listened to Dick Button go on and on about what terrible positions anyone other then a US lady has in spins and spirals!
Ladies SP
- Thread starter fumie_fumie
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As an American viewer, I agree with you! There shouldn't be double standards. Also, Dick Button didn't exactly have glowing things to say when he called Joannie Rochette's LP at the 2007 Worlds . . . I wanted to mute the volume!
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feminine really? I like Rochette but always thought there was very muscular about her.
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:disagree: That's a sexist thing to say. Are you implying that females shouldn't be muscular? Elite athletes need to have power in order to be successful and they need to be muscular to help their endurance. IMO, Joannie nicely balances the athletic/powerful strong energy with a mature/artistic soft energy.
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- Aug 15, 2003
I never said that females shouldn't be muscular. I said Rochette didn't seem more feminine than Asada or Kim, rather more muscular.
Wow, I had no idea! That's just stupid. A flip is harder than a loop and should be rewarded accordingly.
The flip probably scored lower because a number of ladies made mistakes on them:
Vähämaa & Samson popped their planned triple flips.
Rochette & McCorkell had bad landings (turnout & forward, respectively)
Zhang & Phaneuf fell.
Czisny & Liang had their flip downgraded.
Kostner had the back end of her flip combo downgraded and therefore -GOE overall.
Vähämaa & Samson popped their planned triple flips.
Rochette & McCorkell had bad landings (turnout & forward, respectively)
Zhang & Phaneuf fell.
Czisny & Liang had their flip downgraded.
Kostner had the back end of her flip combo downgraded and therefore -GOE overall.
You misunderstood. Flip has higher base value, but it has lower success rate than loop.
Y'know, this was Joannie's SP personal best and Caroline's SP personal worst (for ISU internationals). The announcers were just kicking her when she was down. And she only had a PW because she made one mistake, but it was the biggest mistake that she could make (a fall on the first jump of the combo). Her presentation could've been better but it had highs to go with the lows.
I'm finding Caroline's SP to be worth re-watching just for her presentation. Yes, she was too sedated before the start. Her opening pose was simply gorgeous. Like another poster said, she got a little ahead of the music after her fall. I think that she needs more ta-da movements at the end of her elements to get the audience more involved. I'd like to see her smile when the music is whimsical. Her spirals were incredibly stretched. Her growth has made her spirals that much higher. She still has excellent positions in her spins but she didn't rotate as fast. She hasn't lost any of her flexibility. I loved her reaction to her performance. Her emotions were so genuine. Her disappointment and sadness were obvious from her facial expression.
She solemnly and gracefully acknowledged the audience and was piqued and self-punishing as she left the ice.
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Okay, I just listed to CBC's coverage and the announcers weren't that horrible. Some schadenfreude and gloating. Silly comment from Kurt about Caroline not getting her 3F ratified. Perhaps he drank too much of the Halloween punch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys8iDyRGzAk (available in high quality, just need to lower the volume 
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I think the point Kurt was making is that other girls can improve by just getting better and better at what they already can do properly.
he feels that Caroline Zhang has basic structural flaws in her jump technique that will prevent her from making further progress without some technical restructuring. Basically, she will have to unlearn some bad habits first, rather than just fine tuning what she already has (in Browning's opinion).
About "homerism," I don't know it it is any worse than other countries, but, yes, this was definitely a Canadian show. Besides touting Rochette as the third great skater in the world along with Asada and Kim, they did a lengthy feature on Cynthia Phaneuf's continuing "comeback." The only ladies of the second group that they showed were Phaneuf and Czisny -- who they introduced as a former State Canada champion.
This event was the stepping stone to a great Canadian extravaganza at the Olympics, go Patrick Chan, go Dube and Davidson, etc., etc. Well, why not?
Tracy and Kurt did give a good analogy regarding the double penalty on underrotations (first you get downgraded to the base value for a double, then you get negative GOEs for doing a bad double.) They said, it's like when you do something wrong and get punished by your mother. Then she says, "Now wait till your father gets home!"
Okay, I just listed to CBC's coverage and the announcers weren't that horrible. Some schadenfreude and gloating. Silly comment from Kurt about Caroline not getting her 3F ratified. Perhaps he drank too much of the Halloween punch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys8iDyRGzAk (available in high quality, just need to lower the volume
thanks for this link, and you are right - they didn't quite say what I thought they did, and I actually didn't disagree with the content of what they said. She's got a lot of beauty to her skating, and if she can gain strength and speed will just be awesome.
Still loving that Rochette program....and now I even kind of like the music!
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I think your value on the Flip is too low there. Kostner landed her 3F cleanly, the -2 on her 3F-3T combo was for underrotating the 3T. The theory is correct if you look at competitions, though, and here's a couple ideas about why the Flip seems to be less consistent than the Lutz in terms of GoE:
#1) Skaters try the 3F-3T more than they do the 3Lz-3T since the 3F-3T is generally a bit easier. But, since they are doing the Flip in combination, it becomes harder than just a Lutz. You need more control on the landing of a jump to add a combination to it (especially a 3T), which can throw a person's timing off, and the daunting quality of such an element messes with your head even further.
#2) In the LP, people usually schedule the 3F later in the program because it's at least a bit easier than trying to do a 3Lz later. The thing is, it's still a relatively hard jump and when you're getting more tired, ANY difficult element is going to be considerably more difficult. The whole mind game thing comes into play again too, imo. I think many skaters approach the Lutz with a "I MUST DO THIS" attitude but then sometimes slack off a bit after doing so and don't afford the same level of concentration to the next difficult element.
As for skaters trying to do that suggested jump layout (the statistics are pretty skewed with the Loop, btw, since the female skaters who aren't good at it simply leave it out), it won't win them anything. Nobody wants to just beat the middle of the pack, people want to be on top. If they don't actually try the harder stuff, how will they ever get better at it? Eventually people do need to realize that they simply aren't good at certain elements, but it usually takes a lot of failed attempts to reach the point of letting it go.
Okay, I just listed to CBC's coverage and the announcers weren't that horrible. Some schadenfreude and gloating. Silly comment from Kurt about Caroline not getting her 3F ratified. Perhaps he drank too much of the Halloween punch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys8iDyRGzAk (available in high quality, just need to lower the volume
Kurt's right, Caroline needs to work on her jumps if she wants to stand a chance against the other senior ladies, but I find the "spooky like Halloween" comment a bit insulting.
I was crushed to see Caroline skate so poorly, but I looovvveeee her artistry and the choreography of her programs. The programs this season are better than last. I know she can pull this off at TEB!
Oh, I remember, if I'm not mistaken, her FS score at Skate America last year is around 97, almost the same at SC. But, in Caroline is waaaaayy below her top form, which means she can do much better this time than last year.
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Sorry, but I didn't see any "artistry" in Caroline's programs, this year or ever. She looks like she's just going through to motions.
oohhh...okay...
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