From the ISU interactive guide and the Nebelhorn results, this has been implemented: for example, in "Jumps Preceeded by Steps", -3 is the score where there weren't steps, -2 is the score where there is "longer break between steps and the jump", and -1 is for a "slight break" between the steps and the jump. Where a triple preceeded by footwork is required in the Men's short, jumps with fewer revs were "called" as such at Nebelhorn, and the GOE was deducted from the base mark for the lesser jump (ex: Ari-Pekka Nurmenkari's 1F, Nuriyuki Kanzaki's 2F, Mikko Minkkinen's 1L).Lee said:Deductions are already built into CoP in terms of the values assigned to the various elements.
I'm assuming this means doesn't even try, because attempts will get points, as long as the element "called" is on the list. The rules state that extra elements get no credit either.Obviously, if a skater fails to do an element, they won't get a score for it.
hockeyfan228 said:From the ISU interactive guide and the Nebelhorn results, this has been implemented: for example, in "Jumps Preceeded by Steps", -3 is the score where there weren't steps, -2 is the score where there is "longer break between steps and the jump", and -1 is for a "slight break" between the steps and the jump. Where a triple preceeded by footwork is required in the Men's short, jumps with fewer revs were "called" as such at Nebelhorn, and the GOE was deducted from the base mark for the lesser jump (ex: Ari-Pekka Nurmenkari's 1F, Nuriyuki Kanzaki's 2F, Mikko Minkkinen's 1L).
I'm assuming this means doesn't even try, because attempts will get points, as long as the element "called" is on the list. The rules state that extra elements get no credit either.
mzheng said:I would suppose there is deduction from 5 program components too. Is the choreograph and balance program belong to one of 5 components?
hockeyfan228 said:I tried to think of the scenarios where an element could be missed in the SP:
*Pair does the wrong kind of lift or death spiral
*Pair or single does wrong kind of footwork or spin
*Pair completes 1 rev in twist and lands it?
*Singles skater does the same jump with footwork as in the combination jump (flutzing/lipping doesn't count as same jump)
*Singles skater uses a 3A in the combo and a 2A as the Axel jump, but underrotates the 3A and is given credit for a 2A in the combo.
*Vapor lock -- skater forgets program.
gkelly said:Deduction for doing a non-required "extra" element and additional deduction for not attempting a required one.
Not sure how Code of Points would handle these incorrect elements -- would they get marks for what was done and then deductions for the added/missing elements? Or just no mark for that element, which would mean the base mark total would be based on 7 elements rather than 8? With or without an additional deduction for incorrect element(s)?
The singled twist would count as an attempt at the double with insufficient revolutions. In Code of Points it would be marked with the base marks for a single with minus Grade of Execution as appropriate.
Also wrong/repeated-element type deductions in the old system, which in some cases meant two deductions.
Elite-level example:
skater attempts quad toe combination but doubles the first jump and does no combination
(This happened from skater attempting to improvise to make up for mistake without being able to remember all the rules and requirements in the middle of performing the program)
Another possibility -- example from junior pair program:
Both skaters fall on side-by-side jumps. Boy takes 30 seconds of more to get up and catch up. Girl continues skating through the elements where they are supposed to occur in the music until her partner catches up, but just raising her arms and one leg where the lift should have occurred can't really be counted as an attempt at the lift -- for all practical purposes that element was omitted.
Joesitz said:As many GS member's know I do not recognize a flutz as an attempted Lutz. To me it is a Flip. It follows the definition of a Flip perfectly therefore it is not an attempted Lutz. It is an executed Flip.
What I need and maybe the fine tuning in CoP needs is a definition of an attempted jump.
hockeyfan228 said:According to the CoP, a flutz is scored as an attempted lutz and a lip is scored as an attempted flip.
What may have killed Corwin at Nebelhorn is that if she underrotated a triple by .5, the jump would be graded as a double that was overrotated by .5, but this is missing from the descriptions in the Interactive Guide. [/B]
Joesitz said:Hockeyfan - From my vantage point in DC, I was not able to make out flutzes and lutzes until they were shown on the big TV hanging from the ceiling. Will the Caller and his Assistant have perfect sight of all the jumps?
Could you please explain this opinion? Where is this bad judging? How is the CoP pointless and stupid? If you bothered to give it a chance, you would know that the CoP is much more fair to skaters in early warm-up groups. It also simplifies judging in the fact that the judges only evaluate the component marks and the Grade of Execution for the elements.Tonichelle said:I still think the CoP is pointless and stupid... it's not going to help anything as long as the bad judging is ignored >: