Plushenko v. Abbott - Compare and Contrast

yelyoh said:

FTR, my favorites are Lambiel and Takahashi. Also I think they are the only two who could beat Plush over all but, of course, Taka is not quite 100% yet and Lambiel? Oh and maybe Joubert..maybe.

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I forgot about Joubert (although it was intentionally)! Hey, it's an easy mistake, but I suppose it's unwise to count him out, so I'll give you that!

^ One word: Oda! (shhh.)

Mathman said:

A "refrigerator break." This skater is so boring that when he is on TV I go to the refrigerator and fix myself a snack.

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AKA the Ladies events for this season

Mathman said:

^ One word: Oda! (shhh.)

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Oh for christ sake... all right.

Really, it's not every other skater that can win over a clean Plushenko. But, we have a list of sort...

Takahashi
Lambiel
Sandhu (who's retired)
Weir
Oda
Joubert
Evan
Abbott
Chan

Who did we miss? Olympics is turning out to be a really exciting affair.

Denis Ten could beat him in the short program.

Dee4707 said:

Although the title of the thread reads Plushenko v. Abbott - Compare and Contrast, seriously I don't think that Abbott could beat Evgeny.

Now in my mind there are 3 guys who I think could beat the stuffing out of Evgeny hands down.....if they had their A game on. They are listed in no particular order.

Johnny Weir
Stephane Lambiel
Emanuel Sandu

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I think we can eliminate Johnny because it is:

1. not the point of the topic
2. the mere sight of Plushy makes poor Johnny scared out of his mind

For me if Jeremy and Plushy are at their best I see Plushy winning.
I think Jeremy is better but his style and sophistication are not appreciated as easily by fans and ISU judges are NOT ready to reward it yet.

Maybe someday but not in Vancouver.

janetfan said:

AKA the Ladies events for this season

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Lipstick Ladiez - the SPLATs; to cleavage, or not to cleavage, that's the question; wedgies all around - and still, it's not enough to turn me straight.

The men's not that far behind in the SPLATS though.

janetfan said:

For me if Jeremy and Plushy are at their best I see Plushy winning. I think Jeremy is better but his style and sophistication are not appreciated as easily by fans and ISU judges are NOT ready to reward it yet. Maybe someday but not in Vancouver.

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I wouldn't say that. The judges have shown their appreciation, and rewarded him and as for fans not appreciating him - where the heck have you been?

So here is my thought on the matter: If both aforementioned guys skated perfect I would give it to Abbott. He has more transitional moves than Plushi and his spins are of better quality. Historically Plushi knows how to put it together (like a god) when it really counts (more so than anyone else) so all things being equal Plushi will win and no one will argue it.

However the following is possible:

1. Plushenko / Lambiel / Verner - in my EXPERT opinion these three guys have the IT factor to win it all, the Quads, Spins, Artistry etc., the latter two widely inconsistant.

2. Takahashi / Abbot / Joubert /Oda - These four guys are amazing but each one is missing or will miss something to keep them from that top spot if not the podium entirely. All four are capable of winning it all.

3. Weir / Lysacek - To me these two are also missing something and I don't know what it is. I see either of them winning no more than a bronze medal. In Evan's case I sometimes see the judges looking the other way when scoring his triple axels. Weir has finally skated a good competition but, I don't see the judges on his side anymore.

These nine men will be way more interesting to watch, because I feel there will be a true duel to the death cometition until that final skater finishes his program where as for the women the judges have created this huge gap between Yuna and the rest of the field. Yuna can bomb the short and land 3 to 4 triples in the long and still win by 100 points. The rest of the poor women can do 10 triples each and still be 20 points behind. I love Yuna but she is not that superior.

My very amateurish view as an innocent viewer.
If they had same Tes score or almost same, Lambiel, Taka, Verner and Oda can win over Plush in pcs with the programs they have so far. They are clearly better in some areas and would win with that order I think.

Although it will also matter that night to go out and dont look like a panicked lobster before becoming a spaghetti. I think Plush has the edge there as he never looks anything like it. So does Joub. I dont know for sure if he would win over Plush if they had same technical layout, only reason I dont know is because of personal favorite and how differently I feel when they skate, nothing more. So i dont know to whom judges would give more pcs.

But from the top above only Joubert can reach Plush technically and even pass him. Lysacek cannot reach them in Tes and even if he did, realistically Joub and Plush would still win. For these two, I m not thinking only of what they showed in their grand prix cause it was not same competition for all and it was clear they didn't maximize their program. But unless Chan, Lysacek and some more decide to increase their Tes suddenly at Olys, I think Joubert is the most reliable so far cause like Plushenko he is landing his jumps for years, no matter what happened at TEB.

I can totally understand plush that he counts on his technical score cause it is more objective, it is mathematics and if he lands the jumps he would get the max points he can plus some Goe, while in pcs whatever he will do he cannot be sure how they mark him. I' m pretty sure he knows he is not so far above the rest like 2006 to get rewarded for that and he doesn't count on the high marks he used to get 4 years ago even if he just sneezed on ice.

I think if he skates with the attitude of the reigning OC he can totally sell his performance to have big marks in performance, execution, maybe and interpretation (i m not sure of what but these are all mixed) but that maybe not enough and he needs to be sure he will have the highest tes he can.

Milas said:

I wouldn't say that. The judges have shown their appreciation, and rewarded him and as for fans not appreciating him - where the heck have you been?

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I am in the USA - where are you?

My answer was an attempt to respond to the original question.

I stand by my answer and believe if they are both clean Plushy will win.
I also think Jeremy brings more but there is no way a crowd or judges will respond to Jeremy the way they will to Plushy.

And I am considering that we know the makeup of the judges panel for Vancouver.

seniorita said:

Although it will also matter that night to go out and dont look like a panicked lobster before becoming a spaghetti. I think Plush has the edge there as he never looks anything like it. So does Joub.

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Joubert - really? He seems so nervous and uneven to me. That's the only reason I'm not going to lay money on his OGM. (J/K!!!)

But I agree - no panicked lobsters or spaghetti at the Olympics, please!

seniorita said:

Although it will also matter that night to go out and dont look like a panicked lobster before becoming a spaghetti.

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It pretty much sums up Joubert in 2006 Olympics.
Btw, I actually don't care who wins in PCS among the two, am just happy to have both Jeremy and Plushy, such visible variety in personal styles is more than welcome. Precisely why when I look at the youngster, I get kinda depressed..

schiele said:

... just happy to have both Jeremy and Plushy, such visible variety in personal styles is more than welcome. Precisely why when I look at the youngster, I get kinda depressed..

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Please look at Armin. You won't be depressed! But he's not quite ready to take out of the oven.

Milas said:

Oh for christ sake... all right.

Really, it's not every other skater that can win over a clean Plushenko. But, we have a list of sort...

Takahashi
Lambiel
Sandhu (who's retired)
Weir
Oda
Joubert
Evan
Abbott
Chan

Who did we miss? Olympics is turning out to be a really exciting affair.

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Sandhu should not be on the list. He didn't have artistry, he just had good body line from being a dancer. Plushenko deserves higher PCS if they were both to skate their best.

Weir should not be on the list, since he hasn't shown himself capable of a clean Quad in competition. Ditto for Chan.

Evan should DEFINITELY not be on the list. He has a better spins than Plushenko and that's it. Plushenko is absolutely better in every other regard.

I wouldn't have Joubert there either. He can match Plushenko technically, but not artistically. The same goes for Oda.

Lambiel, Takahashi, and Abbott are the skaters I would put over Plushenko if they all skated their best.

janetfan said:

I think we can eliminate Johnny because it is:

1. not the point of the topic

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Did I not say that when I started out????

Janetfan said:

2. the mere sight of Plushy makes poor Johnny scared out of his mind

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I don't think so. I think Johnny is one is one of the best skaters out there.

I stand by the 3 I named. :thumbsup:

In fact, here...I'll just do a top 12:

01. Lambiel
02. Takahashi
03. Abbott
04. Plushenko
05. Weir
06. Chan
07. Joubert
08. Oda
09. Verner
10. Kozuka
11. Ponsero
12. Lysacek

If they all skated their best.

JEFFREY BUTTLE would go between Weir and Chan if he were still competing.

EMANUEL SANDHU would go between Ponsero and Lysacek.

ALEXEI YAGUDIN would go between Lambiel and Takahashi.

Dee4707 said:

Did I not say that when I started out????


I don't think so. I think Johnny is one is one of the best skaters out there.

I stand by the 3 I named. :thumbsup:

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Geez Dee, I was trying to be considerate of Joe since he does not like threads that get off topic :yes:

Sorry, but Weir looked like he was shaking in his boots at Torino and a few weeks ago at Rostel Cup. I think Plushy does intimidate Weir.

Blades of Passion said:

In fact, here...I'll just do a top 12:

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I like this list, maybe only Abott i dont get that much but that's just me.
But the possibility that all together skate their best in one competition is as much possibility as falling in a rabbit hole and land in Wonderland.

Blades of Passion said:

Weir should not be on the list, since he hasn't shown himself capable of a clean Quad in competition. Ditto for Chan.

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But Chan doesn't need a quad, he said so.

And maybe he's right, I don't really know what the judges want. We've seen crap performances but with great choreography being rewarded with "inflated" scores, and we've seen great performances but with crap choreography being rewarded with the same "inflated" scores. I mean, it's really bloody confusing, and it seems like the judges just make these things up before the competition starts, sort of like, "hey...why don't we reward the ones with the most transitions today, regardless how crappy they skate?" or "Hey...why don't we reward the ones with the solid jumps today, and ignore the crappy programs?". I don't know, it could go either way and I guess we'll just have to wait and brood. :scowl: