- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
The downgrade call was fair.
The downgrade call was fair.
The downgrade call was unfair.
I have been angry about bad calls and the way in which underrotated jumps are graded since early 2007. I have been campaigning against this horrible judging constantly.
Mathman can tell you this (with regards to my activity on this message board, in any case).
2007 U.S. Nationals, when Kimmie Meissner received full credit for what was clearly an underrotated 3-3, is what set off bells and released the demons.
Since then, we have seen major victims of jumps being downgraded. Yukari Nakano placing 4th at 2008 Worlds was a disgrace and showed how flawed CoP is.
The current rule revision in CoP for negative GOE not being automatically given to underrotated jumps was partially my doing and I intend to push more changes through.
I love it when someone does that. Because it gives me a neat little window into that person's mindset, not to mention a delicious opportunity to slam them for their cognitive dissonance if I feel so inclined... (I know I'm not supposed to, teehee.)It's worst than ever, especially with the "I don't mean to bring XXX up but...." and "No offense but...." as a false pretense of objectivity.
Please, do not resize Post #372, that thing needs to be seen by every single person visiting this thread and those loser YouTube'rs who post slo-mo "video proof" of "underrotation" and have no idea what they're talking about.And, wow, that screenshot stretched my post out weirdly.
Good to have a clear visual, though.
Mods, PM me if you need it to be resized.
A lot of people actually did. BoP is one of the most consistent and vocal, for example.How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?
I have been angry about bad calls and the way in which underrotated jumps are graded since early 2007. I have been campaigning against this horrible judging constantly.
Mathman can tell you this (with regards to my activity on this message board, in any case).
Ugh, I understand how you feel if you were Scottish, Korean and Japanese! (My Korean and Japanese friends, they hang out well but whenever history comes up, they are like cats and dogs... lol -- which I perfectly understand why.)
I hate to bring Korea/Japan thing in here, but no one can deny the fact that nationality does play some tricks in figure skating. That's why we have a new system, and we continue to question if it is working.
Do you really hate to bring " Korea-Japan " thing here? If I am not wrong,
it is you who started criticising a Japanese referee and everyone here explained that she wasn't tech-controller today, you insisted that Yuna's score was low because of her.
I love Yuna but she didn't skate better today and her 3-3 wasn't her usual 3-3.
But lately, I haven't really cared about scores. What I love Yuna is not because she gets 76 points, but she is talented and tries 3-3 which no female skater tries now.
Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?
The question is really whether you're all upset over a bad judging call or upset because Yu-na got a bad call. If you truly about the first over the latter, yeah, I do hope that many of you will ride in like a white knight for EVERY "misjudged" skater.
well after pause /play/pausing about a hundred time i would say her toe-pic was touching the ice about 100 degrees short of rotation and then the rest of the blade at 45 degrees. I would consider this UR. I think Miki got lucky;
Come on. Let me demonstrate proposal.
1. Put a referece point in arena. This will be degree 0
2. Put a laser/touch sensor in a player's blades. It will position the angle of take off with respect to the reference point. The revolution is only counted for jumping period. Jump period is determined by a touch sensior. An actuator can be used for the sensor. Any type of piezoelectric material converts pressure to the electrical signal. After land, the sensor detects the angle of landing
3. The count the rovolution can be easily calculated by difference btw take off and landing angle.
This "device" just calculates the actual rotation in the air therefore may reveal some inconvenient truth.
Rank.Skater.....................TES/PCS __(TES-PCS)
1.Yu-Na KIM...............206.53/192.48__(+14.05)
2.Miki ANDO................164.84/172.64__(-07.80)
3.Joannie ROCHETTE....165.76/181.32__(-15.56)
4.Alena LEONOVA........164.83/157.08__(+07.75)
5.Ashley WAGNER........160.24/159.72__(+00.52)
6.Akiko SUZUKI...........176.86/147.52__(+29.34)
--< Alternatives>--
7.Rachael FLATT.........175.66/157.96__(+17.70)
8.Alissa CZISNY..........161.59/163.24__(-01.65)
9.Mao ASADA.............149.03/178.24__(-29.21)
--------------------------------------------------
AVE..........................169.48/167.80__(+01.68)
koongpa said
At least Yu-na skated her "overscored" program in a country other than her own: exactly!
Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?
The question is really whether you're all upset over a bad judging call or upset because Yu-na got a bad call. If you truly about the first over the latter, yeah, I do hope that many of you will ride in like a white knight for EVERY "misjudged" skater.
For these problems and complaints, I'm surprised there is no Universal tech caller from ISU, like a Nellie Kim in gymnastics, as the honcho who is called onto the floor when needed to make tough calls.
Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?
The question is really whether you're all upset over a bad judging call or upset because Yu-na got a bad call. If you truly about the first over the latter, yeah, I do hope that many of you will ride in like a white knight for EVERY "misjudged" skater.
Typically any panels I have ever looked at had a much higher % of Euros.
The Olympic panels for instance are not even close to being balanced.
Especially all those suspiciously new accounts created today with no other posts besides ones raging over Yu-Na's 3T and how those evil Japanese are out to get her :disapp:
Especially all those suspiciously new accounts created today with no other posts besides ones raging over Yu-Na's 3T and how those evil Japanese are out to get her :disapp:
There seems to be a perception among fans that if your program component scores are higher than your element scores, then you are overscored, and if it is the other way around then you are underscored.
I don't get that reasoning. It is perfectly possible for a skater to do well on many of her elements, but to present uninspired choreography, weak skating skills and little in the way of transitions. And vice versa.
One way is not any more overscored or underscored than the other.
Especially all those suspiciously new accounts created today with no other posts besides ones raging over Yu-Na's 3T and how those evil Japanese are out to get her :disapp:
I did here and there for other skaters, but YuNa's 3-3 downgrade is the worst I have seen. Of course I'm inclined to look more carefully when it's my favourite skater, but I don't know if anyone else will show me an example of a worse call.
How about you give us an example of a worse call?
For the record, I have looked at the slo-mo replay several times, and the UR call was bad. That said, I don't think there was any deliberate conspiracy against Yuna. It's more likely that the tech specialist was affected, unconsciously, by the fact that the event was taking place in Japan and Yuna was the biggest rival of the local Japanese skaters. It's not a malicious thing, it's just how humans behave in international competitions. Go back and look at the UR calls over the years and I'd bet my life savings that there have been more questionable UR calls against the rivals of (and for the benefit of) the local country's skaters. Just human nature, folks.
First of all, you need to read a little more carefully. evangeline was being sarcastic about the "evil Japanese." Of course, she never leapt out when rabid Japanese fans were saying how Team YuNa etc. were paying the ISU, etc., but whatever.Excuse me, I believe it happens to Mao. Don't even try to say that the rapid Japanese fans are the only ones who do this. I'm talking about the Korean uber fans too.
Uh, so would I, but we all know that 6.0 judges weren't sticklers for quality and rotation of jumps.An example of what I think is the worst judging call? Sure. In the 6.0, Sarah Hughes winning gold with that UR 3-3s. Mistake or not, I would have gladly been happy with Irina Slutskaya winning.
I'm talking about bad under-rotation calls. Give me an example of one that has thus far been worse thn YuNa's 3T call last night. Also, as I repeated, YuNa's 3T (contrary to what you say) was less rotated at TEB. Everyone saying her 3T last night deservedly scored less than the one in her SP at TEB are kinda... :scratch: to me.In the CoP, Carolina Kostner winning silver in 2008 and I actually like Carolina but what in hell's bells were the judges smoking? Whatever that was, I'd like some because I'm going to need it to get through the rest of the season. Some people, you know who you are, repeatedly complain (even now) about how Mao won worlds with a face plant and a break in rhythmic flow in her program. Kostner's medal placement is far more egregious that Mao's win or Yu-na's 3T UR.
And you seem to be treating it as if it's some moral demand on fans of a particular skater to rally to everyone's defense if they find injustice in the instance of their favourite. I don't expect Mirai or Mao or Miki fans who were unhappy about their respective fav skaters' UR calls to rally to YuNa's side right now.But that's just speculation. You're treating it as some natural behavior that humans do.