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- Aug 18, 2010
Really?!
Then where is this coming from
:http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/...-olympic-charter-urge-lgbt-sport-groups110813
Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics
- Thread starter Big Deal
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Really?!
Then where is this coming from
:http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/...-olympic-charter-urge-lgbt-sport-groups110813
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- Jun 27, 2012
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You are thinking with very western, American heads. You are the new world, we in Europe need to tackle engrained habits of thinking. Perhaps you know that France has recently adopted a law, wich allows the same-sex marriage and several days of demonstrations were against the law. In France! Already 200 years ago they said: "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity!"
I'm Hungarian,- I never said- in my country no one is interested in the Russian law, I read only a bit of news on the internet. No one cares of it. (Within a few years Hungary became conservative, a lot of people agree with some radical nationalist ideals. In the Parliament there are a radical nationalist party- Jobbik:scowl:-, they are in the European Parliament too)
In Budapest every year were attacks against the Gay Pride parades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScxzVxIp7c BBC news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2494klGr0 :scowl::no:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYO7uFajmg8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz4kqqN-Z3I
And after wasn't a national outcry. Because maybe the most of people don't agree with the attacks, but they agree with it, the gays don't show openly that they are gays. Much the same with Russian law. And that is shocking that young people are not thinking differently....I am a liberal citizen in a conservative country, so sometime I don't feel good myself in my country.
And Russia is a very multicultural country, they aren't only Russians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
They don't understand the gay's rights.
I'm Hungarian,- I never said- in my country no one is interested in the Russian law, I read only a bit of news on the internet. No one cares of it. (Within a few years Hungary became conservative, a lot of people agree with some radical nationalist ideals. In the Parliament there are a radical nationalist party- Jobbik:scowl:-, they are in the European Parliament too)
In Budapest every year were attacks against the Gay Pride parades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScxzVxIp7c BBC news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2494klGr0 :scowl::no:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYO7uFajmg8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz4kqqN-Z3I
And after wasn't a national outcry. Because maybe the most of people don't agree with the attacks, but they agree with it, the gays don't show openly that they are gays. Much the same with Russian law. And that is shocking that young people are not thinking differently....I am a liberal citizen in a conservative country, so sometime I don't feel good myself in my country.
And Russia is a very multicultural country, they aren't only Russians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
They don't understand the gay's rights.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2012
Really?!
Then where is this coming from
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/...-olympic-charter-urge-lgbt-sport-groups110813
The gaystarnews article draws a inference from broadly worded section 50 which applies to general political statements. It equally applies to all sides, preventing either side from asserting its position in a political manner.
Regarding sexual orientation, the wording is specific and unambiguous, however. Directly from Charter: the sixth “fundamental principle of Olympism” is a concrete codification that “any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic movement."
This reasonable interpretation jibes with the statements of the IOC executive even:
http://www.timescolonist.com/sports...ys-olympic-charter-must-be-respected-1.576216
Let's keep our feet on the ground here.
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- Aug 18, 2010
I am not saying that Olympic Charter said it could discriminate in anyway. What you are arguing doesn't make sense if you go back to read what you were insisting in your previous post.
Plushyfan, you've put your finger on an issue that's a complicating factor in many parts of the world, including here in the United States. It's a kind of culture shock: many people feel that they have no say in what's going on, and it causes a deep unease. You're right that this must be taken into account, though one hopes it can be worked out. You also mentioned that the conservative party in your country is based on an extreme nationalism, which often includes a stress on traditional cultural values. This trend is occurring across Europe, as borders become more porous and people fear that their known way of life is being swallowed up. So many new things are happening at once, and because of instant communication, we hear every blip of the world's heartbeat.
This is one reason it's so important to have places such as GoldenSkate, where one can not only speak out (in comfortable anonymity) but also hear from people who live very different lives. Sometimes the meeting is painful, but I believe it will lead to something good down the road. Also, being skate fans, we're lucky in that many of the figure skaters we admire are from other cultures or belong to groups we would otherwise know nothing about.
My conclusion: the 21st century is not for chickens! Hang in there, everyone.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I believe sexual orientation would fall into the "or otherwise".
Generally discrimination is wrong. It's absurd for people to be dissecting words or using semantics to say "oh well, LGBT people aren't explicitly included in the IOC's policy against non-discrimination, so it's why should we expect the IOC to care when LGBT people are discriminated against".Also, athletes don't have to wear pride flags but they can all wear rainbow pins which are official Olympic merchandise (I believe Blake Skjellerup has pledged to do so, as well as a number of LGBT athletes):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/London-2012-Olympic-Rainbow-Heart-Pin-Badge-Brand-New-/150643428719
http://www.ebay.com/itm/London-2012-Olympic-Lapel-Pin-Rainbow-Glitter-Mascot-Wenlock-/261115115843
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mRdCzpbZsw8zJ0r1qpXgGfg.jpg
Another idea is literally incorporating a pride rainbow into the team uniforms (e.g. a sleeve or collar), as it would be part of the design.
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- Feb 24, 2012
I just hope sports and competition and the olympic spirit woudl come first rather than silly politics. Why can't we all be friends with different opinions?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
:agree:
Exactly! It is against Olympic ideals that two people shouldn't be able to express their love for each other - I mean, even two guys holding hands is considered gay propaganda? What do Russian officials plan to do for the two-man luge?
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- Jun 27, 2012
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Yes, you are right, I really love the GS forum :yes: and I love Plushy's fanpages, where the Chineses are at peace with the Japaneses, the Russians with the Americans, the Hungarians with the Romanians, the Slovaks, or with the Serbs. And I'm happy there, we all love each other.
:I understand the reasons why many people became radical nationalists, but disgusting if you can see nearly.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
If you'd like to bring up the Olympic Charter, here is a relative part:
Olympic Charter
Two thumbs up for IOC!:thumbsup::thumbsup: It has realized that there are all kinds of politics and cultures in the world. If every country brings their own propaganda to the game, there will be extreme clashes and this sport event will not continue.
Olympic Charter
Two thumbs up for IOC!:thumbsup::thumbsup: It has realized that there are all kinds of politics and cultures in the world. If every country brings their own propaganda to the game, there will be extreme clashes and this sport event will not continue.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Wouldn't it be construed as religious propaganda every time an athlete crosses themselves or praises/thanks Jesus when they win?
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- Aug 18, 2010
I believe IOC, and every Olympic host country, not just Russia, will focus on peace, unity, and glory. They will try to make big turn into small, and small turn into none. They will ignore the small things. As long as you don't do anything outrageously disturbing, you will be fine. If you feel good to wear rainbow finger nails, they won't care. If you wave a rainbow flag, I do't know.
:agree:
Exactly! It is against Olympic ideals that two people shouldn't be able to express their love for each other - I mean, even two guys holding hands is considered gay propaganda? What do Russian officials plan to do for the two-man luge?
And it's even harder to understand when you realize that in Russia (among other countries), men might kiss on alternate cheeks as a greeting. But holding hands will somehow corrupt kids?
If gay activists are conducting some of the disruptive demonstrations that have been mentioned by sky_fly and some of the others, I'd suggest for them to rethink their agitprop approach, because the object is to convince people that they're right, not alienate them. But that's just my take on social change after many years of living through it. I've seen more dignified actions have a much greater effect on society.
But even if this the way LGBTs in Russia are behaving, I'm sure there are laws in place dealing with public disorderly conduct that can deal with such situations. An extra law targeting gay disorderly conduct is superfluous.
A further thought: If this kind of loud behavior is what counts as gay propaganda, I can't understand who would think that it's an effective way to "recruit" kids. Who'd want to join a group that's inevitably going to jail as its first stop? What's so attractive and seductive about that?
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
?? ...but... If there is no such law, no one will go to jail.
I agree with this part. Cultural change takes time and patience. Maybe in 50 years, there won't be such clashes anymore, who knows? Force one's own radical views on other country and their people can only result in even greater resistance like the birth of this Russian law.
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- Nov 20, 2011
and this is the proof that just made it blatant :disapp:
the average Russian, will tell you the mindset of Isinbayeva http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23717242
now she is being attacked by the western press
She has the Right to have her Own View you disgusting cultural supermacists
Iisnabyeva
look at these comments, you have no rights whatsoever that is her opinion !!
the average Russian, will tell you the mindset of Isinbayeva http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23717242
now she is being attacked by the western press
She has the Right to have her Own View you disgusting cultural supermacists
Iisnabyeva
look at these comments, you have no rights whatsoever that is her opinion !!
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
agreed :disapp:
Isinbayeva committed a crime comparable to the Nazis
strip her of her medals, how ungrateful and how dare she not support the LGBT rights
This is going too far to cultural supremecy! Now the whole north American and western European press is bashing her horribly as are fellow athletes who now even if their own countries just became gay rights friendly in recent years are calling her horrible! I find it disgusting! Especially Symmonds! He's just so much better than everyone now and so is the US!
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
You can respect someone's right to an opinion/view, but you don't have to respect her opinion or agree with it. People need to learn the difference.
In the case of Isinbayeva, her comments are homophobic... and since she is being a bigot then people will call her out on it.
Also, you can't just say something outrageous like, "My bigoted opinion is just my culture! If you're coming to my country, you should be tolerant of my intolerance."
I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian government hand-picked her as a high-profile athlete to state their opinion... oops, I mean, HER opinion.
In the case of Isinbayeva, her comments are homophobic... and since she is being a bigot then people will call her out on it.
Also, you can't just say something outrageous like, "My bigoted opinion is just my culture! If you're coming to my country, you should be tolerant of my intolerance."
I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian government hand-picked her as a high-profile athlete to state their opinion... oops, I mean, HER opinion.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
So rainbow fingernails are fine, but waving a flag is where people draw the line. What about waving a tiny flag? Or facepainting a rainbow?
Here's a question: if waving a rainbow flag is propaganda, how will children be aware of it being propaganda? Until somebody actually explains to them what it is, it's just a rainbow, right?
Or perhaps Russia should ban rainbows altogether. But what if it rains and a rainbow appears? Somebody think of the children!
Reminds me of this ridiculousness: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/08/censorship-gone-too-far-canadian-catholic-school-bans-rainbows/
What about waving a tiny flag? Or facepainting a rainbow?Here's a question: if waving a rainbow flag is propaganda, how will children be aware of it being propaganda? Until somebody actually explains to them what it is, it's just a rainbow, right?
Or perhaps Russia should ban rainbows altogether. But what if it rains and a rainbow appears? Somebody think of the children!
Reminds me of this ridiculousness: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/08/censorship-gone-too-far-canadian-catholic-school-bans-rainbows/
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