Men FS - 2014 European Championships

I don`t see an indiivdual medal for Plushy but a team medal is a real possibility. And Vornovv is really not a consistent skater. Like Gachinski after hm he was once thought the heir apparent to Plushy but it didn`t materialize.

spread beagle said:

Lets see how test skate goes before making quick call.

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where can I see that?

luckyguy said:

Don´t forget. with Voronovs desastrous performance at 2012 Worlds (17th) begun the problems for Russia. They should send Plushenko. But I don´t see a medal for him.

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I don't see why Plushenko should be sent for any reason other than publicity. For the purposes of competition Plushenko has not proven that he is currently more reliable than Kovtun or Voronov.

The funny thing is, Plushenko might have easily beat Kovtun but would have been pressed to beat Voronov and Menshov.

It's stupid that instead of Voronov and Menshov proving themselves the takeaway is that Plushenko is somehow the best choice, when he didn't even compete.

On the other hand I'm glad Plushenko stayed out of Euros so that Menshov could go and medal.

Frenchie said:

Do you know if we are, indeed, going to see how the test skate goes? Or will it be held without cameras allowed?

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Hmmm I doubt it because say if all 4 guys compete in the test skate if Voronov or Menshov won over Plushenko and Kovtun then they definitely would have a hard time justifying Kovtun or Plushenko. And if it was just Plush in the test skate and people saw him bomb like at Russian Nats then they couldn't claim he skated well enough to represent Russia.

The best thing to do would be to send neither of these two. The skater who has earned it for better or for worse is Voronov. They took so much away from him in the past. He has overcome serious injury,he's in form and has also been the most consistent this season. Plushy's days are behind him, Kovtun's before him. Voronov's time is now.

That was a drama packed event. First of I am delighted for Menshov. It was a brilliant skate I didn't think he would make it to the podium as he was to far back but am delighted he did. If anything I think he was undermarked on the PCS, I would have had him second behind Javi. Even though he is 31, I still he has a few years in him. He got a great audience reaction. It's a great reward for all his hard work down the years and the regular shafting by the Russian Fed. The best skate of the season for Javier, I would him have him as a contender for an Olympic medal now, some work needed before Sochi but he can do it. I find Voronovs skating a bit empty but he landed the jumps, he has turned around his career since moving to Eteri T.

When I seen the list of entries for these champs, I really thought it was Kovtuns to lose but once again when the pressure came on him he crumbled. He has 3 big tests in the last year or so, Worlds, the chance to win Rostelecom Cup in 2013 and this years euros and he has failed at all times. What struck me was once the jumps were missing everything else was kinda poor. In a way I feel sorry for him, he should have been let go to Junior worlds last year and possibly win it instead of to Senior Worlds where the weight of expectations was to much and he lost two sports for Russia. He has been overhyped by Tat and I think he believes it now, his twieet about being a member of the olympic team could be a bit embarrasing now. I honestly believe that Menshov would have been Top 10 and got that second spot.

For the Russian Olympice team I think it should be Plushenko with Voronov as reserve who will in reality end up skating the team free and the singles event. Kovtun does not deserve it, many chances multiple fails. Whoever competes in the mens event, I can' see them medaling. My favourite choice to go would be Menshov but he was only 2nd Russian here and was not on the podium at nationals

Among the other competitors I enjoyed Joubert (not normally a fan), Liebers (needs to work on PCS) and Hendrix (a bright future), I was shocked at how poor Amodio skated, will the French even send him to Sochi. On a separate note Voronov is surely runner up in the worst costume awards behind Hanyu, it was really hideous.

Voronov lost nationals to Plushenko, how Plushenko hasn't proved against him? If kovtun beat Plushenko at nationals and a tone of pages have been written about it the last few weeks, so did plush beat Voronov. and while Plushenko had a meltdown of a skate. I have thought a million reasons not to send Plushenko to Sochi but the whole situation is a mess from the beginning.

Bottom lube, send Menshov!!

What I've seen today in the arena, and in the Russian National on the youtube, none of the Russian male skaters has any real chance to be in top 5 at the Olympics, only if some "miracle" happens in the Russian ice in SOchi.

So, the main consideration has to be the Team Event, how to make the best deal for that for Russian as long as the whole book of rules was created to try to provide a Russian Gold.
What will happen: they will enter Plushenko to Sochi ONLY because he can score well in the Short Programme in the team event and than he will be -unfortunately- injuried or unwell before the long Programme (almost already announced by him after the Russsian National) and give it to the "substitute, who is able to have a good and clean Long Programme. This one seems to me Menshov after today. But than, they HAVE to enter Menshov to the Individual competition because of the rules.

Or they will change the rules in favour of the Russian Federation, like they did it before (not having anymore 2 men, 2 ladies, 1 pair, 1 dance, but 1 in each discipline to make Russian chances better...)

bigdeal said:

What I've seen today in the arena, and in the Russian National on the youtube, none of the Russian male skaters has any real chance to be in top 5 at the Olympics, only if some "miracle" happens in the Russian ice in SOchi.

So, the main consideration has to be the Team Event, how to make the best deal for that for Russian as long as the whole book of rules was created to try to provide a Russian Gold.
What will happen: they will enter Plushenko to Sochi ONLY because he can score well in the Short Programme in the team event and than he will be -unfortunately- injuried or unwell before the long Programme (almost already announced by him after the Russsian National) and give it to the "substitute, who is able to have a good and clean Long Programme. This one seems to me Menshov after today. But than, they HAVE to enter Menshov to the Individual competition because of the rules.

Or they will change the rules in favour of the Russian Federation, like they did it before (not having anymore 2 men, 2 ladies, 1 pair, 1 dance, but 1 in each discipline to make Russian chances better...)

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Again, can't substitute an injured/ill player during the team competition only before the start of the competition.

The Russian Fed has nothing to lose. Send Plushenko. :yes:

Geez, what a mess. I don't know how they're going to decide who to send.

Well they could always look at the skater's "body of work" and then decide .........love you Ashley!!!

Plushenko's "body of work" is unmatchable... it's his body that's falling to pieces.
Well, it's a nailbiter, a lose-lose situation.

bartlebooth said:

Plushenko's "body of work" is unmatchable... it's his body that's falling to pieces.
Well, it's a nailbiter, a lose-lose situation.

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Oh I'm sure they'll have plenty of thread and needle and duck tape on standby to make him all shiny and somewhat new again

Draw straws or high stakes poker...

MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT - Updated

1. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 267.11 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) - 252.55 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
3. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) - 237.24 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
4. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 236.98 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
5. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) - 232.37 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
6. Peter LIEBERS (GER) - 225.76 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Tomas VERNER (CZE) - 223.66 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
8. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) - 221.95 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
9. Jorik HENDRICKX (BEL) - 205.92 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
10. Alexei BYCHENKO (ISR) - 203.76 Free Skate
11. Alexander MAJOROV (SWE) - 202.47 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
12. Chafik BESSEGHIER (FRA) - 198.07 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
13. Florent AMODIO (FRA) - 190.13 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
14. Viktor PFEIFER (AUT) - 189.06 Free Skate
15. Franz STREUBEL (GER) - 182.21 Free Skate
16. Kim LUCINE (MON) - 179.89 Free Skate
17. Stephane WALKER (SUI) - 179.52 Free Skate
18. Javier RAYA (ESP) - 179.37 Free Skate
19. Maciej CIEPLUCHA (POL) - 179.06 Free Skate
20. Pavel IGNATENKO (BLR) - 172.08 Free Skate
21. Zoltan KELEMEN (ROU) - 171.26 Free Skate
22. Yakov GODOROZHA (UKR) - 158.88 Free Skate
23. Paul Bonifacio PARKINSON (ITA) - 157.81 Free Skate
24. Viktor ROMANENKOV (EST) - 153.66 Free Skate

Medal Ceremony, Complete Men's Free Skate, Final 2 Groups + Medal Ceremony

Brian cannot retire this year. That's too much eye protein going to waste. Like what he's done with Morozov. They should have begun their collaboration earlier in the season.

bramweld said:

Brian cannot retire this year. That's too much eye protein going to waste. Like what he's done with Morozov. They should have begun their collaboration earlier in the season.

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Well, Morozov did say he'd like Brian to continue for one more year....

(Note: no, I don't think it's actually going to happen. )

Ziggy said:

I never said that Kovtun should have got TES higher than the other two Russian guys. He doubled two jumps, had some cheats, didn't do a three jump combination and he has paid the price for all that with lower base value.

But PCS is something completely different. How jumps are executed or not should have no bearing whatsoever on how PCS are scored (unless those mistakes disrupt the flow of the program - Kovtun had no bad falls or messy step outs which would). There are no jumps or other technical elements mentioned in the PCS criteria. Those are two separate marks.

A skater can fall 5 times and just give up and 'walk through the program' and then this obviously should impact the PCS.

But a skater can fall 5 times and still continue to present their program well, maintain speed and so on and so forth (check Popova's FS for example) and then the only thing you can legitimately deduct on the PCS is the lack of flow due to the falls and possibly even not that if that skater gets up very quickly and gets back into the program straight away.

Kovtun doubled two jumps at the start but then he went on for everything else and skated the whole program with good speed and attack.

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I think you got the logic mostly correct except this is not what happened. After the initial mistakes, Kovtun focused on jumping and I applauded him for fighting back. As far as his choreography and interpretation, they have gone out of the window. The so called "attack" was simply laser sharp focus on landing the rest of his jumps, the performance itself became an after-thought. This is similar to what Mirai Nagasu did in her FS at the U.S. Nationals and something Russian men often do in their free skate - focus on landing the jumps, everything else is mere details. This strategy can work well when the program is relatively clean but when the skater himself is in panic from missing some key jumps like Kovtun did here or Plushenko did at Russian Nationals, they tensed up and lost most their natural charisma and essentially stopped projecting to the audience. Furthermore, they also became tense and cautious, therefore, slows down. Errors on technical elements can be costly to a skater's PCS not only when there is extended disruptions from bad falls - more than anything else, it's the psychological impact the mistakes have on the skater himself/herself which can really ruin a program. It's a common misconception that bad falls and their resulting disruptions are costly to PCS - more often than not, it's the skater's reaction to their mistakes and their subsequent actions after getting up that ended up costing them in the 2nd mark. Pretty much all of the top men are unable to fully recover once they start to make major errors in their programs, even if the errors consist of doubling jumps as opposed to falling and I include men like Chan, Takahashi and Hanyu in this list. The men know their discipline has become so competitive that any error is costly and it weights on them.

At its core, PCS really is a 2nd set of technical mark. Whereas TES evaluates the elements, PCS evaluates everything else. As a mark is that is technical in nature, the performance and execution of any given skate can have tremendous impact on its final grade. Therefore, a skater's PCS can range quite a bit, easily +/- 10 points as opposed to tight narrow band. It is not a proxy of TES however it is not an automatic either based on reputation.

seniorita said:

the Russian boys..Kovtun's program is absent once he abandons jumps, I read here but no, no energy, going through hand movements a la tarasova, while he is young and needs more light choreo, he was like in morning practice, I swear I did not jinx him, I applauded even, but he was lost!!

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I am glad you concur. Just because he didn't fall doesn't mean his performance didn't go out of the window, well, he clearly did due to this question that is obviously bothering him : "Did I do enough to be selected for Sochi?" After he finished his skate, you can see how disappointed he was and how emotional he was. I'd say he was petrified by the end.

On the other hand, somebody could fall twice but bounce back really well, which would justify a sustained PCS but that's very rare. Most of these skaters have so much pressure on their shoulders, I find it almost impossible for any of the elite skaters to shrug off their errors and move on.