Finlandia - Voronov's marks

Sandpiper · Oct 15, 2014

I'd rather skaters concentrate on selling their program and engaging their audience, rather than fumble around doing mental calculations in fear of Zayak.

I've heard no convincing argument about why this is many times worse than a fall, or why this is the only mistake that deserves zero points. Heck, I think this is just going to lead to even more rotate-and-fall. Not only do you get more points that way, you also avoid potential Zayak.

Violet Bliss · Oct 15, 2014

Sandpiper said:
I think this is just going to lead to even more rotate-and-fall. Not only do you get more points that way, you also avoid potential Zayak.

Popping a jump is usually involuntary at take off, with the body protecting itself automatically. A quad may be downgraded into a triple, double or popped entirely into a single as often a triple would be as well. It is simple for Patrick Chan to tack on a 3T to the a triple later in the program if he doubles it earlier in his quad combo, gaining bonus points in the process. But for someone who tends to pop the quad, it gets complicated and there are more scenarios to consider. E.g. Oda had problems with repeating 3Ts and Javi has too many Salchows.

I too wish the penalty to be not so severe and devastating, or the rules loosened, particularly for the second or third jump of a combo.

TMC · Oct 15, 2014

Sandpiper said:
I'd rather skaters concentrate on selling their program and engaging their audience, rather than fumble around doing mental calculations in fear of Zayak.

I've heard no convincing argument about why this is many times worse than a fall, or why this is the only mistake that deserves zero points. Heck, I think this is just going to lead to even more rotate-and-fall. Not only do you get more points that way, you also avoid potential Zayak.

This!

Alchamei · Oct 15, 2014

My opinion about Zayak rule:

I think it's a good idea, otherwise we could see five Lutzes or Flips in a single program... I don't mind about the fact the repeated jump must be landed in combination at least once. You can show off you really master the jump then!

However, I had mixed feelings about the restricton of double Axels. I don't think it was the best idea to allow only two 2A in a program. Considering my experiences, I haven't seen a skater who used more than three 2A before the rule came out.

And I completly disagree with widening the rule to ALL double jumps. Can you imagine how stressful it has to be for skaters, if they pop a jump to a double? Do you know it makes the whole skating complicated? You have to think over and over again if you can perform this or you can't because you have too much doubles? We don't need skating to be even more complicated.

Alchamei · Oct 15, 2014

TMC said:
I don't think it is about counting this time. First of all, this is sudden in the sense that it is a new rule, starting this season. Secondly, it is excessively punitive.

I've had no complaints about the Zayak rule so far, but this is taking it too far in my opinion. It seems to be designed to limit double-jump repetitions at the juvenile/novice/intermediate/whatever young skater level. I'm not sure how sensible it is to apply the same rule to the senior level. Nobody does a third 2jump in a planned 3-3 combo on purpose.

Say Joshua is first by 0.01 points after the short at Worlds and plans to do a 4T-3T, a 3F-3T, and a 3Z-2T-2L towards the end in his free.

He pops the 3Ts after the quad and flip into a 2T. It's just not his day! Now he's going for the three-jump-combo, and he's already rattled because he's popped two jumps and he has the added pressure of having to change that planned 2T into a 3T. He has been practicing and practicing the 3-jump-combo, so his muscle memory and timing are perfectly in tune. Now he has to make that extra revolution and he knows that if he can't, he will lose the entire combo. So he's even more nervous. He goes into the jump, he's tired and extremely stressed, and unfortunately he can't make the 3T. His whole combo, which is worth a lot of points, is invalidated. He certainly didn't do the 2T on purpose, he just couldn't do a 3T like he should have. Because of this, he drops to 4th after the free.

Still think it's fair?

This sums up the whole situation perfectly.

Finlandia - Voronov's marks

Sandpiper

Violet Bliss

TMC

Alchamei

Alchamei

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