2016-2017 Grand Prix selections

eta said:

Let's do math.

Hanyu scored 237.55 at 2014 Cup of China. He received -5 for five falls during FS.

Under the current rules, he would have received -9 for those five falls, resulting in a final score of 233.55.

The bronze medalist scored 226.73, so Hanyu would still have gotten silver.


Winning/placing high after giving a not-good performance means that other competitors gave even-worse performances.

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I think you're right about 2014 Cup of China - everyone skated very badly, according to a cursory review of the protocols.

Rather than seeing deduction in PCS for falls, I want to see some CONSISTENCY in PCS - meaning, if falls don't matter in awarding PCS, then neither should not attempting quads at all, or having a lot of clean quads. Let's give Jason and Adam 8s and 9s in PCS and give Nathan Chen 5s (for his LP). Or, if technical content matters (which it does, seeing that "quad guys" get a boost in PCS they probably wouldn't get otherwise), then falls should get penalized in PCS. Either way is fine by me.

andromache said:

I think you're right about 2014 Cup of China - everyone skated very badly, according to a cursory review of the protocols.

Rather than seeing deduction in PCS for falls, I want to see some CONSISTENCY in PCS - meaning, if falls don't matter in awarding PCS, then neither should not attempting quads at all, or having a lot of clean quads. Let's give Jason and Adam 8s and 9s in PCS and give Nathan Chen 5s (for his LP). Or, if technical content matters (which it does, seeing that "quad guys" get a boost in PCS they probably wouldn't get otherwise), then falls should get penalized in PCS. Either way is fine by me.

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That certainly would be nice. Sadly, as a judged sport, I doubt it will ever happen.

eta said:

While this is true, as long as this is a judged sport, nothing can be done to "fix" it. Even when things are explicitly written in the rules - say, what deserves +GOE or -GOE - scores are not given consistently, because judges just happen to favor certain skaters over others.

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The rules can absolutely be changed to "fix" it. Jumps with falls could earn no credit. Do the math again. Mine may be flawed because I did it in a rush, but the results would have been very different nonetheless. Here is what I get:

1. Kovtun 234.84 (He had one fall in the short so I deducted that).
2. Dornbush 224.21 (He had one fall in the free so I deducted that).
3. Nam 221.85
4. Ge 219.28
5. Hanyu 209.90

People may not want to go there. But it can be done in IJS, without relying on subjective judging. If you can't land the jump, have you done the jump? That's the question. I find falls to be more disruptive to a performance than anything else. There is no reason to believe athletes received credit for failed attempts under 6.0. This is a recent development, and I would have no problem with eliminating the credit for a failed jump under IJS. It would undoubtedly have huge repercussions. But guys were doing quads under 6.0. They aren't going to disappear. What might become less common would be the splatfests and people trying jumps & pairs throws that they know they cannot land. I would be very good with that.

Ice Dance said:

The rules can absolutely be changed to "fix" it. Jumps with falls could earn no credit. Do the math again. Mine may be flawed because I did it in a rush, but the results would have been very different nonetheless. Here is what I get:

1. Kovtun 234.84 (He had one fall in the short so I deducted that).
2. Dornbush 224.21 (He had one fall in the free so I deducted that).
3. Nam 221.85
4. Ge 219.28
5. Hanyu 209.90

People may not want to go there. But it can be done in IJS, without relying on subjective judging. If you can't land the jump, have you done the jump? That's the question. I find falls to be more disruptive to a performance than anything else. There is no reason to believe athletes received credit for failed attempts under 6.0. This is a recent development, and I would have no problem with eliminating the credit for a failed jump. It would undoubtedly have huge repercussions. But guys were doing quads under 6.0. They aren't going to disappear. What might become less common would be the splatfests and people trying jumps & pairs throws that they know they cannot land. I would be very good with that.

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If jumps with falls get no credit, then I'm sure all skaters would reconsider what they put into their programs, and thus those scores you calculated have no basis.

eta said:

If jumps with falls get no credit, then I'm sure all skaters would reconsider what they put into their programs, and thus those scores you calculated have no basis.

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Pretty much. Skaters put their layouts together based on current rules - Risk&Reward. Doing these "what if's" are completely pointless.