Javier Fernández vs. Hanyū Yuzuru

The one who performs the best those days.
If the GPF showed us something is how terribly unpredictable the men's field is and it can be anyone's game.

Yuzuru Hanyu. Because he hasn't peaked yet. Instead I feel like he's been slowly improving from competition to competition. Putting emphasis on "slowly".

Whoever does better on the day.
So it needn't be Hanyu or Fernandez, even though they've been 1-2 for the last 2 years. Look at the GPF podium, Shoma, Nathan, Boyang can also challenge for a spot on the podium. --Anything can happen.

What's with the weird name accents and the eye-hurting red text?

After the SP at Worlds 2016 you would have been hard pressed to find a person who thought Hanyu wasn't going to win - but he didn't. Nothing is certain.

*throws salt all over this thread, runs away*

karne said:

What's with the weird name accents and the eye-hurting red text?

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Well, the accents are technically part of their names haha.

Anyway...*looks at my avatar* *looks away* Who knows

I think it depends more on whether Yuzuru can fix his tendency to peak earlier in the season (i.e. around the GPF). That might have already changed this year, as he didn't seem to be at his best at GPF. Worlds this year will tell the tale.

As far as Javier, who knows. We've yet to see him really nail a short program in a major competition. What would his mentality be like in the free if he were to do so?

Not sure Shoma or Nathan will be able to improve enough in a year's time to catch up.

Considering all the top men have the capability to bomb and have a meltdown, I am not betting my money on anyone. Whoever skates the best should and would win. That would include other top men who can score big like Chan, Chen, Uno, Jin etc.
One of the reason why men's field is so exciting now, we just don't know who is going to be on the podium, let alone who is going to be on the top of it.

It's so hard to say. Fernandez has brought it at Worlds the past few years, usually with Euros as a strong precursor. Hanyu definitely has the greater scoring potential but has always fizzled in either program at Worlds. And with increased difficulty, the pressure to go clean will be even greater.

If Yuzuru wouldn't have been injured the last two seasons, Fernandez would have zero world titles. He can only beat Yuzuru when he is ill or injured, that's how it is, a lot of luck :confused2:

Biellmann said:

If Yuzuru wouldn't have been injured the last two seasons, Fernandez would have zero world titles. He can only beat Yuzuru when he is ill or injured, that's how it is, a lot of luck :confused2:

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But it's mostly Hanyu's own fault that he was overtraining in GP season.


Optimistically it looks it has changed this season. Maybe he finally got frustrated enough of losing world titles after 2016 Worlds which was mighty painfull.
Just hope he doesn't overtrain for 4CC now instead.


In my opinion Hanyu has chance to go clean with his LP if he will move 4S combo on first sal.
4lo, first 4S and 4T are looking consistent for his FP this season. Just need to move that quad combo

Well this title is missing a few vs's, but I'd say we might be in for a treat at this years WC! I know most people tought the GPF was pretty underwhelming, but IMO there were a lot of good things to take away from it: Yuzu hasn't peaked yet, so he might do that at worlds. Patrick finally skated a great SP internationally and landed the 4S - the 2 question marks for him, now we know he can deliver all the goods, he 'just' needs to do so at the same time. Nathan really arrived in the high senior ranks. Shoma proofed his place in the high senior ranks. Javi probably learned a good lesson and maybe it will help him deliver at worlds. And don't forget SpiderBoyang webbing away in the background and Mika Kolyada who just became the Russian national champ! Most of all, I'm looking forward to a great event.

To get back a bit closer to the thread topic: if Yuzu stays healthy and skates well, he'll win. Now we know he doesn't have the best relationship with WCs, but he also seems to have matured a lot mentally, so who knows. Javi needs to get his SP problems in check - with the current field, he can't afford to mess up too much. Javi vs. Patrick is actually a more interesting question to me: who wins if both skate clean/equally well? Javi has an additional quad in the SP, so his BV is a bit higher still. The main argument for Patrick are his better SS and PCS overall - but would the judges score it that way?

Biellmann said:

If Yuzuru wouldn't have been injured the last two seasons, Fernandez would have zero world titles. He can only beat Yuzuru when he is ill or injured, that's how it is, a lot of luck :confused2:

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That is an unfair statement - yes, if Yuzu was healthy and if he had skated well, he would have likely won, but that's no reason to belittle Javi's accomplishments. Javi skated well at both last seasons WCs, and especially his LP in 2016 was amazing. Both his WC titles were deserved. He's the rightful 2-time WC, no asteriks needed.

HanDomi said:

In my opinion Hanyu has chance to go clean with his LP if he will move 4S combo on first sal.
4lo, first 4S and 4T are looking consistent for his FP this season. Just need to move that quad combo

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And no matter how often you repeat that, he's not going to change it :confused2: Yuzu has never scaled his difficulty back (aside from after a horrific accident at CoC 2014) and he already had the quad combo in the 2nd half last season - albeit a 4T3T then. And he landed that twice... he's not going to put the combo in the first half this time. I get that it's frustrating, but it's just not gonna happen.

Li'Kitsu said:

W
And no matter how often you repeat that, he's not going to change it :confused2: Yuzu has never scaled his difficulty back (aside from after a horrific accident at CoC 2014) and he already had the quad combo in the 2nd half last season - albeit a 4T3T then. And he landed that twice... he's not going to put the combo in the first half this time. I get that it's frustrating, but it's just not gonna happen.

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it is frustrating because he is gaining anything onit if he nails it other than some tiny wow factor, but looses everything if he misses it

HanDomi said:

it is frustrating because he is gaining anything onit if he nails it other than some tiny wow factor, but looses everything if he misses it

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Honestly I don't think second half is the problem there, yeah I wished he did it in first half but we know he wont, he just needs to change entry and do the same as in SP thats it.

HanDomi said:

it is frustrating because he is gaining anything onit if he nails it other than some tiny wow factor, but looses everything if he misses it

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Well he gets additional ~0,5 BV if he completes that combo in 2nd half and keeps solo 4S in first half. I am not sure whether that's the intention but I can't find any other explanation. It's risky though.

4S - 1st half + (4S +3T) * 1,1 in 2nd half = 10,5 + 14,9 * 1,1 = 10,5 + 16,39 = 26,89 BV

4S + 3T 1st half + 4S * 1,1 in 2nd half = 14,9 + 10,5 * 1,1 = 14,9 + 11,55 = 26,45

So + 0,54 of additional BV if everything goes well.

Ares said:

Well he gets additional ~0,5 BV if he completes that combo in 2nd half and keeps solo 4S in first half.

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That's nothing when you think this layout can score like 125 TES if he ever goes fully clean with it

HanDomi said:

That's nothing when you think this layout can score like 125 TES if he ever goes fully clean with it

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I don't like this tactics either but he feels breath of his competitors on his neck more than before now.

Ares said:

I don't like this tactics either but he feels breath of his competitors on his neck more than before now.

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That's true. Younger skaters are pushing

We already saw him recently trying 4S-lo-4S, 3a-lo-4s combinations in practice, so maybe he is realistically thinking about putting this in competition

He's not doing it for the 0.5 extra in BV.

First, Hanyu reads deeply so more than likely what he's thinking of is the 4Lz next season that would replace the 4S.

Second, if he wanted easy, he would never have went for the 4Lo this season and would have stuck with the stable three quads but again, he is thinking ahead. Injury or not, he's pushing himself and so he won't give up on the combo in the second half. He's said it's a matter of concentration and my belief is also timing. They'll definitely fiddle with the choreo and with some adjustments it should stop being an issue.
It's also a matter of his pride of having that quad combo in the second half because if he thinks he should do it, by golly, he will do it. It's not just an issue of the young ones coming after him but a combination of that and him wanting more.

Plus why give up? Yes, yes, you can play it safe. But playing safe is not in the head of the great ones or they wouldn't be great.