Who is your favourite skater under Eteri?

moriel · Oct 11, 2017

gravy said:
Lipnitskaya.

I know Mistress Tut has a bunch of juniors, but I don't hate my life enough to watch them all. I find it such a waste to get invested in any juniors but especially if they're trained by Eteri who has an atrocious record when it comes to breaking skaters before their bodies fully develop.

Such as Evgenia, who has been winning everything in seniors for 2 years in a row, without any major injuries?
Sakhanova doesnt seem injured either. And so on and on and on

Overall, btw, how many brilliant junior ladies actually do well as seniors out of all brilliant junior ladies?

Just because your favourite skater had weight/puberty issues, that does not mean the coach is the devil.

gravy · Oct 11, 2017

moriel said:
Such as Evgenia, who has been winning everything in seniors for 2 years in a row, without any major injuries?
Sakhanova doesnt seem injured either. And so on and on and on

Overall, btw, how many brilliant junior ladies actually do well as seniors out of all brilliant junior ladies?

Just because your favourite skater had weight/puberty issues, that does not mean the coach is the devil.

Medvedeva is clearly an exception. If she were the rule about Eteri's greatness, her army would've been dominating in seniors for years with all the other skaters she broke like Shelepen, Lipnitskaya, and Pitkeev. And we've seen what's been happening with Tsurskaya the past few years.

Because this is off-topic, you or anyone else who feels the need to hash this conversation out is more than welcome to PM me. Moving on.

tjb · Oct 12, 2017

gravy said:
And we've seen what's been happening with Tsurskaya the past few years.

polina has a könig's disease, how exactly is this eteri's fault?

hippomoomin · Oct 12, 2017

With so many skaters under her wing, and they are constantly developing, it is really hard to pick a favorite. When I thought Evgenia is my fav, Alina came into the picture. When I though I like Alina more, Anna came out, and then Trusova...

gravy · Oct 12, 2017

tjb said:
polina has a könig's disease, how exactly is this eteri's fault?

Koenig's is a joint disorder caused by repeated trauma (IE, it's an overuse injury). Contrary to Dr. Eteri's fabrications and several Russian fake news articles, it is not a genetic disease. Her mother also denies that her bout with OCD was due to some hereditary illness she inherited from her father. She does mention however, that Tsurskaya's most recent injury was a slipped disk in her spine and prior to that a ligament tear. So yeah, still a pretty bad record for Mistress Tut.

Anyway, since I'm currently explaining a medical condition in an Eteri fan thread, I feel it's necessary to repeat myself again since apparently reading comprehension is difficult for you:

Because this is off-topic, you or anyone else who feels the need to hash this conversation out is more than welcome to PM me.

Li'Kitsu · Oct 12, 2017

gravy said:
Koenig's is a joint disorder caused by repeated trauma (IE, it's an overuse injury). Contrary to Dr. Eteri's fabrications and several Russian fake news articles, it is not a genetic disease. Her mother also denies that her bout with OCD was due to some hereditary illness she inherited from her father. She does mention however, that Tsurskaya's most recent injury was a slipped disk in her spine and prior to that a ligament tear. So yeah, still a pretty bad record for Mistress Tut.

Anyway, since I'm currently explaining a medical condition in an Eteri fan thread, I feel it's necessary to repeat myself again since apparently reading comprehension is difficult for you:

Are you counting injuries for every skater, or just in cases when it helps you spout vitrol against coaches you don't like? Sadly, injuries happen a lot in FS. Most skaters have injuries (though thankfully a lot of them not as severe) 'regularly', under every coach. In most cases we just don't hear from them.

Also, it's beyond hypocritical to start the off topic posts off (because no, naming you're fave skater under Eteri does not require you to say again how Eteri was such a horrible coach & what not) and then try to silence others reacting to your posts with the holy "you are OT!". And, while I'm at it - no, if you have 3 or 4 cases, and a 1 to 2 (or even 3) split, then that one case is not 'clearly' the exception. That is not how statistics work. Especially not with a sport like FS were sadly a lot of promising juniors aren't making it to success in seniors anyway.

gravy · Oct 12, 2017

Li'Kitsu said:
Are you counting injuries for every skater, or just in cases when it helps you spout vitrol against coaches you don't like? Sadly, injuries happen a lot in FS. Most skaters have injuries (though thankfully a lot of them not as severe) 'regularly', under every coach. In most cases we just don't hear from them.

Also, it's beyond hypocritical to start the off topic posts off (because no, naming you're fave skater under Eteri does not require you to say again how Eteri was such a horrible coach & what not) and then try to silence others reacting to your posts with the holy "you are OT!". And, while I'm at it - no, if you have 3 or 4 cases, and a 1 to 2 (or even 3) split, then that one case is not 'clearly' the exception. That is not how statistics work. Especially not with a sport like FS were sadly a lot of promising juniors aren't making it to success in seniors anyway.

If counting serious injuries skaters have acquired under a certain coach is vitriol, then tough luck for you. I've said nothing false--just truths which you find hard to swallow. I really only take notice of these things when brilliant skaters like Pitkeev and Tsurskaya suddenly go down with major health problems at such young ages. Hard to not ask questions when they have the same coach.

I also fail to see how offering to continue a conversation over PM is silencing others. It's quite literally the opposite, but whatever, we're here now. Furthermore, I don't need to do a statistical analysis to say that Medvedeva's career is "clearly" exceptional and different than not only her training mates, but also from every skater in the world.

Sam-Skwantch · Oct 12, 2017

Let's all just hope Polina recovers strong and Eteri's days of injured skaters is behind her. :pray:

Out of curiosity...what was the nature of Polina Shelepen's departure? She just hit puberty and suffered with poor jumping afterward and left the group if I recall it right.

lavenderblossom · Oct 12, 2017

Back on topic: my favourite of the ladies will probably always be Evgenia. For many and varied reasons. :love:

Beyond that they are all so likeable! I guess Polina T is next. In 2015-16 I didn't remember much of her besides her huge jumps, but she has acquired a lovely sense of grace and elegance in her movements and I am really excited to see her again. Then Daria, who captured me with a look at the end of her FS in Riga. Many times I heard she was shy and not a good performer, but I could see right then she understood the music very well. Then Anna who is still very young, but has a very elegant, soft, controlled way of skating already. Nastya who is wild and passionate on the ice. Sasha who has incredible jumps and is very charismatic. Alina and Alena with very difficult jump entries that continue to astound me and also great spins.
Among the men I like Moris who is a great entertainer with amazing speed :party2:

but my fave is Ilia (I was sad to see he didn't get a JGP assignment this year :sad4

.

tars · Oct 12, 2017

moriel said:
Just because your favourite skater had weight/puberty issues, that does not mean the coach is the devil.

Do you think Shcherbakova has had weight/puberty issues? :rolleye:

https://pp.userapi.com/c638120/v638120967/5517f/zVVzGoBiEgA.jpg

ps. What's wrong with Alina's knee?

https://pp.userapi.com/c837125/v837125065/54adc/uq0uTpcpgIs.jpg

samkrut@mail.ru · Oct 12, 2017

tars said:
What's wrong with Alina's knee?
https://pp.userapi.com/c837125/v837125065/54adc/uq0uTpcpgIs.jpg

Looks like a bruise covered by zelenka. Usually nothing serious.

As for the question, hard to say. Eteri has the constellation of the best lady skaters in the world now. How can one pick just one of them?

I enjoy both Medvedeva and Zagitova. Both are fabulous.
In the juniors it's Kostornaya - a full package and a very impressive package.

tjb · Oct 12, 2017

gravy said:
If counting serious injuries skaters have acquired under a certain coach is vitriol, then tough luck for you. I've said nothing false--just truths which you find hard to swallow. I really only take notice of these things when brilliant skaters like Pitkeev and Tsurskaya suddenly go down with major health problems at such young ages. Hard to not ask questions when they have the same coach.

I also fail to see how offering to continue a conversation over PM is silencing others. It's quite literally the opposite, but whatever, we're here now. Furthermore, I don't need to do a statistical analysis to say that Medvedeva's career is "clearly" exceptional and different than not only her training mates, but also from every skater in the world.

ok. if eteri is not a great coach, but a really terrible one, who is great then? which coach have a 100% success rate at transferring a junior ladies to seniors? and what are you saying when a brilliant skaters like satoko miyahara are suddenly going down with a major health problems? mie hamada is a devil?

Li'Kitsu · Oct 12, 2017

gravy said:
If counting serious injuries skaters have acquired under a certain coach is vitriol, then tough luck for you. I've said nothing false--just truths which you find hard to swallow. I really only take notice of these things when brilliant skaters like Pitkeev and Tsurskaya suddenly go down with major health problems at such young ages. Hard to not ask questions when they have the same coach.

I also fail to see how offering to continue a conversation over PM is silencing others. It's quite literally the opposite, but whatever, we're here now. Furthermore, I don't need to do a statistical analysis to say that Medvedeva's career is "clearly" exceptional and different than not only her training mates, but also from every skater in the world.

I know all those truths about Polinas injuries myself - and since she's one of my absolute favorites, yes, I find them hard to swallow, but not in the sense that I'm denying she's having them. I'm simply put telling you that this does not show that Eteri is a bad coach, or has a habit of "breaking" her students, but that sadly injuries are rather common in FS. (Also, Polina is not down. We haven't even seen her skating since last JWC).
Does Brian Orser break is students too? Look at Cha having a bad injury right now. Oh, and Yuzu having a nearly career ending one in 2016. Clearly, Brian Orser can't handle men skaters, Javi is just an exception. Didn't DTen have to struggle with a lot of injuries throughout his career, especially in the last years? Frank Carroll, that devil. That men even "broke" Gracie. 100%, horrible coach. No good coaches exist.

As for the bolded part - yeah, that is clearly what you meant when you said Evgenia was the exception. Not that Eteri ruins all her skaters and Evgenia is just the one with the magical knee-juice to survive all on her lonesome, but how exceptionally good she is. Yeah, clearly.

silverfoxes · Oct 12, 2017

lavenderblossom said:
Among the men I like Moris who is a great entertainer with amazing speed but my fave is Ilia (I was sad to see he didn't get a JGP assignment this year :sad4.

I was feeling depressed reading this thread because it's obvious that the men might as well not exist to most people here. Adian may as well be forgotten after all he went through. In the current group, Moris did great at Worlds (underscored because he now skates for Georgia, though) and Alexey Erokhov is also getting better and better. He won both his JGPs, but almost nobody noticed or cared. Ilia is also very charming...hope he will get his 3A soon.

gravy · Oct 12, 2017

tjb said:
ok. if eteri is not a great coach, but a really terrible one, who is great then? which coach have a 100% success rate at transferring a junior ladies to seniors? and what are you saying when a brilliant skaters like satoko miyahara are suddenly going down with a major health problems? mie hamada is a devil?

When Hamada has several students go down with serious injuries, we can talk. I also never said Eteri was a bad coach because her juniors don't make it as seniors.

Li'Kitsu said:
I know all those truths about Polinas injuries myself - and since she's one of my absolute favorites, yes, I find them hard to swallow, but not in the sense that I'm denying she's having them. I'm simply put telling you that this does not show that Eteri is a bad coach, or has a habit of "breaking" her students, but that sadly injuries are rather common in FS. (Also, Polina is not down. We haven't even seen her skating since last JWC).
Does Brian Orser break is students too? Look at Cha having a bad injury right now. Oh, and Yuzu having a nearly career ending one in 2016. Clearly, Brian Orser can't handle men skaters, Javi is just an exception. Didn't DTen have to struggle with a lot of injuries throughout his career, especially in the last years? Frank Carroll, that devil. That men even "broke" Gracie. 100%, horrible coach. No good coaches exist.

As for the bolded part - yeah, that is clearly what you meant when you said Evgenia was the exception. Not that Eteri ruins all her skaters and Evgenia is just the one with the magical knee-juice to survive all on her lonesome, but how exceptionally good she is. Yeah, clearly.

Yes, I actually have issues with all of those coaches as well. I'd probably talk about their flaws too if they had an entire thread about how great they are. Orser showed a serious lack of judgment when he let Hanyu compete with a concussion in late 2014. Carroll and his old-school ways have annoyed me to no end especially with how he treated Gold. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. My posts weren't some irrational, "I hate Eteri" rants. I dislike coaches who continually make bad decisions. I also didn't say Eteri ruins all her skaters so stop putting words in my mouth.

tars said:
ps. What's wrong with Alina's knee?
https://pp.userapi.com/c837125/v837125065/54adc/uq0uTpcpgIs.jpg

This response is actually off topic, but what's Zamolodchikova doing with Eteri's minions? :love:

Li'Kitsu · Oct 12, 2017

gravy said:
Yes, I actually have issues with all of those coaches as well. I'd probably talk about their flaws too if they had an entire thread about how great they are. Orser showed a serious lack of judgment when he let Hanyu compete with a concussion in late 2014. Carroll and his old-school ways have annoyed me to no end especially with how he treated Gold. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. My posts weren't some irrational, "I hate Eteri" rants. I dislike coaches who continually make bad decisions.

Yuzu never competed with a concussion. He was checked for that before his skate at 2014 CoC. But well, if you think you know better then basically every top level coach out there right now, have it your way.

I also didn't say Eteri ruins all her skaters so stop putting words in my mouth.

I find it such a waste to get invested in any juniors but especially if they're trained by Eteri who has an atrocious record when it comes to breaking skaters before their bodies fully develop.

Okay.

moriel · Oct 12, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
Let's all just hope Polina recovers strong and Eteri's days of injured skaters is behind her.

Out of curiosity...what was the nature of Polina Shelepen's departure? She just hit puberty and suffered with poor jumping afterward and left the group if I recall it right.

Yep, she was hit by puberty and her performance suffered.
She left Eteri. Then she kept skating poorly, got injured and retired.

Ofc somehow Eteri's fault.

Overall, Eteri seems to have so many injured skaters and blabla basically because she has MANY top skaters. What other coach has so many top skaters under his/her tutelage? So if 1/3rd of the Eteri girls get injured, suddenly thats a lot of people. If 1/3rd of orser or hamada skaters get injured, thats like 1 person, thats ok.

andromache · Oct 12, 2017

What's wrong with doubting or being critical of coaching methods or decisions? Coaches aren't perfect - they all make mistakes. And it's clear that in a school as competitive as Eteri's she's not going to nurture or help anyone through their struggles (the way that Mishin stood by and still stands by Liza, for example) - there's enough talent that her students are expendable to her. It's an attitude that some find to be acceptable and others do not find acceptable. There's no need to defend Eteri's honor anytime someone criticizes her - she's not your wife or your mother.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 12, 2017

People are acting like Eteri *wants* her skaters to get injured.

No, she simply has set an extremely high standard, which forces skaters to maximize their difficulty and thus chances of winning. This high standard can lead to greater injuries because of the general toll it takes on skaters when they attempt harder elements.

Nobody is forced to go to her or stay with her as a coach. They are welcome to skate with more lenient coaches. They won't be pushed as hard and thus not necessarily be as strong competitors as Eteri's students are but they'll be less prone to injury.

But she works her students hard and the results speak for themselves. It is a risk that these skaters take in order to not only dominate on the World level, but also distinguish themselves in a ridiculously saturated Russian field.

And good point about how Eteri's students are more prolific with regards to their injuries, because they actually achieve a level where they are prolific, whereas if a coach has mostly non-factors or unknowns (or maybe 1 or 2 star skaters), the likelihood of that coach getting scrutinized (and vilified) if their skaters get injured is minimal compared to a spotlight coach like Eteri.

4everchan · Oct 12, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
People are acting like Eteri *wants* her skaters to get injured.

No, she simply has set an extremely high standard, which forces skaters to maximize their difficulty and thus chances of winning. This high standard can lead to greater injuries because of the general toll it takes on skaters when they attempt harder elements.

Nobody is forced to go to her or stay with her as a coach. They are welcome to skate with more lenient coaches. They won't be pushed as hard and thus not necessarily be as strong competitors as Eteri's students are but they'll be less prone to injury.

But she works her students hard and the results speak for themselves. It is a risk that these skaters take in order to not only dominate on the World level, but also distinguish themselves in a ridiculously saturated Russian field.

And good point about how Eteri's students are more prolific with regards to their injuries, because they actually achieve a level where they are prolific, whereas if a coach has mostly non-factors or unknowns (or maybe 1 or 2 star skaters), the likelihood of that coach getting scrutinized (and vilified) if their skaters get injured is minimal compared to a spotlight coach like Eteri.

well... i don't know.. in my field... very different of course, there are a lot of injuries related to the strain we put on our bodies... but it is a well-known fact that practicing with less tension leads to less injuries...I don't think the high standards is the problem... perhaps it is the highly competitive environment.... perhaps it is something technical or that has to do with posture.... I am not stating such things, but it's something that would be worth looking into...

I agree though that she has more skaters getting somewhere thus with the achievements will also come more "scrutinizing"

to answer the question...

ADIAN.... :sad21:

Who is your favourite skater under Eteri?

moriel

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

tjb

Match Penalty

hippomoomin

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

Li'Kitsu

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

lavenderblossom

tars

[email protected]

Medalist

tjb

Match Penalty

Li'Kitsu

silverfoxes

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

Li'Kitsu

moriel

andromache

CanadianSkaterGuy

4everchan

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