Audience for 200

I thought it was just awful the way the audience kept carrying on before the 200m men's event. The Greek Champion withdrew long before the event took place, and we will see if a doping scandal follows, so it's not the fault of the athletes on the field, nobody "stole his place". And to boo the winner afterward, so unsportmanlike. Like the BBC comentators repeatedly said; "disgraceful'.

Too bad, they were putting on such a nice Olympics until that moment.

No one else was affected by this?

They pretty much comported themselves like a soccer crowd in a third-rate banana republic; probably a good thing security is so tight or they probably would have been throwing bottles and old fruit as well. :sheesh: :sheesh: I was just glad that nobody ended up being disqualified for a false start due to all the noise, which would have just added insult to injury. If they had a problem with the Americans, that's one thing. There were 4 other non-American guys in that race who had to put up with that crap as well. It was just transcendentally rude.

JonnyCoop said:

They pretty much comported themselves like a soccer crowd in a third-rate banana republic; probably a good thing security is so tight or they probably would have been throwing bottles and old fruit as well. :sheesh: :sheesh: I was just glad that nobody ended up being disqualified for a false start due to all the noise, which would have just added insult to injury. If they had a problem with the Americans, that's one thing. There were 4 other non-American guys in that race who had to put up with that crap as well. It was just transcendentally rude.

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What's the problem with the Americans? I haven't seen this yet. It is among my 7 or 8 tapes that I still have to look at.

As forthe British commentator,. has he ever watched the fans at a Fussbal (soccer) match between the English and a Europpean contender? l They actually cause death. :sheesh:

Joe

Apparantly, the Greek newspapers are blaming the US for the withdrawal of one of the top Greek runners who was supposed to be a favorite for the 200m ( I can't recall his name, but he withdrew before the games started because he missed a drug test, then got into a "mysterious" motorcycle accident and was rumored to be the one who was originally supposed to light the torch.) I'm not sure how they're tying the US in to what he did, but the 200m was a big ticket item and the crowd was peeved that he wasn't in the race. I do think it was rather rude, since none of the runners, including the Americans, had anything to do with any of it.

Well, it didn't seem to bother the athletes. They just hung around until it was time to run, then they ran.

If you look at sports as entertainment, lots of people think the price of a ticket gives you the right to cheer and boo. The athletes can cry all the way to the bank. I just wish the crowd would get more rowdie at golf tounaments. Who are these prima donnas to tell me to shut up on their backswing?

Of course the South African soccer referee who, fearing for his life, pulled out his gun and shoot a rowdie spectator dead, I guess that's sports, too.

Mathman

You're right MM. The booing is just as much a part of sports events as the cheering. The falling is just another part of the race. So is the broken pole, etc. Get on with life. Especially since very few track and field competitors at the Olympics are amateurs anymore.

What on Earth is wrong with Europeans? Why must they make excuses for their behaviors? I hope security was tight for the American athletes over there. It seems Europe is very anti-American. At least American fans cheer on all countries, and not just European. What a vulgar, disgusting group of people!
I hope things improve inTurino.

To Fossi!

Fossi said:

What on Earth is wrong with Europeans? Why must they make excuses for their behaviors? I hope security was tight for the American athletes over there. It seems Europe is very anti-American. At least American fans cheer on all countries, and not just European. What a vulgar, disgusting group of people!
I hope things improve inTurino.

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Well, I don't wanna even know how many "Europeans" (in over
40 DIFFERENT countries!) are probably wondering on and on what's "wrong" with US-Americans, including their president.

No, I'm not defending the behaviour of the Greek crowd (remember, Greece is just ONE of over 40 pretty DIFFERENT European countries!) at all, it was quite rude and anything but sporty, but generalizations won't help here. You'll find fair- and unfair audience reactions presumably everywhere. It simply depends on several mentalities and kinds of sport.

For example, where were the "American fans, cheer on all countries" at last years Worlds in Washington? May I pass this question to Irina Lobacheva and Ilia Averbukh plus Tatiana Totmanina and Maxim Marinin? (Russia, partly, is an European country as well, and rather HUGE!). And, in the opposite, the reaction of the Dortmund crowd (you know, Dortmund lies in Germany, just another ONE of over 40 DIFFERENT European countries ) at this years Worlds, who actually managed to cheer for every skater, including US-athletes !!! like Michelle, Sasha and Jennifer???

I highly recomend to take a look at your globe or encyclopaedia before posting rash statements like this! Just imagine, over 663 million "Europeans" would generalize like you and judge about over 263 million US-Americans just by "comments" like yours?

PS: Just a little note: According to a representative poll about over 85 % of the Greek, sorry, "European" , people, called the way Kenteris acted a "national disgrace."

It may not be at the same time level, but we Americans boo at football games, hockey, baseball, basketball and etc... :\

The President has nothing to do with the Olympics. This is not a political post. I don't know why you would even suggest that.
The US fans boo football teams because there are several deep rivalries. They don't boo anyone specifically because they are American citizens. This race at the Olympics they blamed the AMERICANS for their own athletes failure to not show for a urine test , and said it was a conpiracy. Why is this an Americans fault?
European fans make no secret that they dislike the Americans. Just look at when Michelle Kwan was going to skate at Worlds '04. Several European posters on several boards were posting how they would boo her and she would not be received well. (Looks like she won them over though and I heard no boos, however then the European fans said it was only because she handled the crazy man very well). And Lance Armstrong?? Getting booed and spit on by the Germans and the French?? What kind of standard are they setting for people to follow?
I remember Irina Slutskaya's "Stupid Americans" comment after she took silver at SLC. She claimed that Americans only cheer for Americans. Seems Europeans only do the same thing. Are their whiny athletes setting the example for the general public to follow? I realize we are lucky to have such great sportsman (Sarah Hughes, Michelle Kwan, Todd Eldridge). Do we have such different values?
As I stated before, I hope that the Turino fans are more mature, and show the world that they can handle victory and defeat.

Fossi, you know what? There is one big difference between you and the audience in Athens on thursday night - they are mostly Greek and you are American.

Besides that you are absolutely the same. Failing to see the reality and bashing people who have done nothing wrong.

In your case - that Kwan example is ridiculous. Blaming people that they "want" to boo her and when that doesn't happen - as others pointed out, the audience in Dortmund was said to be very fair to EVERY one - it is Kwan who caused that. Was she also the reason that Cohen was not booed? If you would do a bit more research you could find out that those audiences who have been said to be the most fair were often in Europe..... E.g. the athletic world championship in 1992 (is the year right) in Stuttgart was so famous for it that many athletes today still mention it.

And if you talk about Lance Armstrong being treated bad, you should also inform yourself that other cyclists on that very day had similar problems - and that the audience was NOT only European...... In this case many people camped near that very road for days and obviously drank too much for the whole time. But this has nothing to do with what happened in Athens - completely different situation.

Overall I would suggest you to meet people from other parts of the world, maybe even there where they live - and find out if all Europeans are such wild beasts as you seem to think.

And concerning "handling victory and defeat"... I will be curious to see how you handle it when Kwan might perhaps again be defeated... Seems to me that many of her fans are not that kind of class act in such a situation as she is herself most of the time.

Mathman said:

I just wish the crowd would get more rowdie at golf tounaments. Who are these prima donnas to tell me to shut up on their backswing?
Mathman

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Everytime a golfer whines I get a mental image of Tonya Harding in Lillehammer with her skate propped up on the boards crying about a broken lace.

http://www.charliesweb.com/tonya/olympics/olympicphot/laces06.jpg


We were talking about golf this week at the lunch table. I told my co-workers that if my favorite skater complained to the referee that he was unable to do his 4T/3T because of the noise (or some other such non-sense) that he would be laughed out of the arena.

My response to tdnuva:

There is one big difference between you and the audience in Athens on thursday night - they are mostly Greek and you are American.
No, I have never booed an athlete.

Besides that you are absolutely the same. Failing to see the reality and bashing people who have done nothing wrong
So, booing athletes because the hometown athlete failed to show for a drug test, and blaming the Americans is right?[/COLOR]

In your case - that Kwan example is ridiculous. Blaming people that they "want" to boo her and when that doesn't happen - as others pointed out, the audience in Dortmund was said to be very fair to EVERY one - it is Kwan who caused that. Was she also the reason that Cohen was not booed?
[COLOR=DarkRed[I]]Many fans from Europe on several boards I frequented stated that Kwan would not be well received in Europe, and stated the opposite would happen for Cohen. Posters made reference to Sasha's Russian (Ukriane) roots, and how she embraced them and worked with a Russian coach before switching to Sarah's old coach. This was posted on several different boards, by several different posters so there must be some truth to the statements. Even Maria B made a comment about the American girl with Ukrainan roots. [/I] And if you talk about Lance Armstrong being treated bad, you should also inform yourself that other cyclists on that very day had similar problems - and that the audience was NOT only European...... In this case many people camped near that very road for days and obviously drank too much for the whole time. But this has nothing to do with what happened in Athens - completely different situation
No, it isn't a different situation. It shows the horrible treatment of American athletes, for no particular reason[/COLOR].

Overall I would suggest you to meet people from other parts of the world, maybe even there where they live - and find out if all Europeans are such wild beasts as you seem to think.
I have been to Europe, but not for a sporting event. I have also met many Europeans while they have been on "holiday" here in the US.[/COLOR]
And concerning "handling victory and defeat"... I will be curious to see how you handle it when Kwan might perhaps again be defeated... Seems to me that many of her fans are not that kind of class act in such a situation as she is herself most of the time.
[COLOR=DarkRed]LOL! I never cheer when an athlete is defeated. I also don't spit at them or boo an athlete if they win. I did cheer like crazy for Sarah Hughes when she won at SLC and at Skate Canada, but it wasn't in disrespect for Kwan or Irina. I certainly didn't take pleasure in their pain. That said, I've never seen a Kwan fan boo an athlete if they beat Kwan. Where did that comment even come from? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=[I]DarkOliveGreen]One more thing, the Olympics is an International event and is televised around the world. If these fans don't want the criticism, they should think before they act. I am not the only one offended by their behaviors. It is being discussed elsewhere and not only in the United States. [/I]
I tried to make it easier to read, but it won't work for me. Forgive my lack of computer skills.

Regarding the "Americans only cheer for Americans" concept:

Former tennis pro Pam Shriver, most known for having won many Grand Slam doubles titles with Martina Navratilova, wrote a book in the mid-80s which was essentially a journal she kept during the year while she was playing on the tour. In one entry, she talks of how annoying it was to be playing in New Jersey and having the crowd heavily root for her opponent, Gabriela Sabatini of Argentina. She wrote "Can you imagine the crowd cheering for a foreigner in any other country but the good old USA? Still, if these people want to cheer for a 15 year old raven haired South American beauty insteas of a Fourth-of-July born, 23 year old, damn-proud-to-be-American girl, that's OK with me; it's a free country".

A couple of months later, she ends up playing Steffi Graf in Germany and mentions how Graf ended up complaining that the crowd wasn't behind her enough, to which Shriver remarked "Welcome to the club, Steffi. Now you can imagine what it's like to be an American playing in America."

How do you explain the booing of all the US boxers at the boxing venue? My impression is simply that US athletes are heartily disliked in Greece. I've always tho't that one day I would like to visit Greece but no more. I'll spend my US dollars somewhere else.

Sigh.

Seems you try to misunderstand everything I say. One last try on my side. Backwards.

Lance Armstrong issue. The behaviour near the road to Alpe d'Huez was bad - against different cyclists from different countries (e.g. one German they thought made something wrong the day before, he just did his job though). And there were several Americans which were NOT treated that bad. Fans were very unfair - they were drunk. Drunken biased fans from anywhere in the world have rude behaviour. It's bad - but it's nothing which is especially directed against Americans.

Worlds 2004. I am reading several skating boards, and have NOT read such announcements - but things like that would be ruled out by good administrators anyway. As several reported - they were no boos in Dortmund against Kwan, neither against any other American like Weiss e.g. afaik. And could you please accept that (perhaps with the exception of Russia and Ukraine) no European television talks about Cohen's ancestors? For our tv people she is American. Full stop. The only difference our broadcasts make between her and Kwan is the length of their career (and of course things like skating style, coaches and so on). For them Cohen is rather the young blood, but even more so of course Arakawa and Ando. Many were sorry for Kwan btw, not cause of her deduction (most wondered why she would risk that), but because of her bad qualification round - otoh it makes the competition more interesting to see three ladies having good chances instead one big favorite.

Athens 2004, thursday 26th. It was an awful behaviour of the audience - but again your conception of the incident seems so narrowed..... Most of the loud Greek in the audience did not cry something like "bad americans" or whatever - they had posters with the name of Kostas Kenteris, the greek sprinter who is under the accusation of doping. They bought their tickets beforehand for this evening cause they wanted to see him win. Now he was out and they were disappointed. It makes me angry - cause I think it's stupidity (to use a weak word) to cry for a doper!!!! Besides his name they were mostly crying "Hellas" (greek name of Greece itself). Nationalistic. Unnecessary. That was the biggest part of the uproar.

The smaller part of it is the doping problem itself. The drugs came from the US. And there are suspicious wins by US sprinters (quoting doping investigators here), this might make the people in the audience even more mad. Their "doper" is out and others who might as well dope are in. Yes - in this respect it was against the US sprinters. Cause there are big doping affairs in the US atm. Or shall I say - they come out now. And not all is out already.

If the US team (talking of sprinters here mainly) acts like it does, which means trying to hide everything, not helping to clear it up, the reputation of those sprinters might well be going down more soon..... But this is not about the nation as a whole they come from - it's about systematic doping. It's the same problem Bulgarians in weightlifting or Hungarians in discus have. And I know quite well there might be many more than we know now.

You could see the difference last night when the audience was cheering for two pole vaulters (where doping does not help and no accusations of doping are at hand against any of the athletes in the competition) - which came by chance from the USA. They were good in the competition, the audience cheered - everything ok. I don't know about the situation in boxing cause we don't get much coverage of it. But judging from the very different events we got it seems the audience does NOT generally boo against US athletes. The only real accusation I could make is that the always cheer a lot more for the Greek athletes (if present) and not that much for any other from other nations, which is already bias. But again - that's the case for many competitions all over the world. And I can certainly say that US athletes are NOT booed in most events in Athens. If you get that impression maybe I should not only blame you but also your tv coverage...... This could well be an example about the influence of mass media.

Thanks tdnuva, for an excellent assessment of the booing situation. I also learned a lesson about booing when I was in DC Worlds. I was busy booing Speedy but at the same time a skater was on the ice and someone pointed out to me that the poor skater may thing I was booing him.

Joe

To certain extent I feel as though agreeing to host the Olympics is like an invitation to invite people into your home. They should be treated as guests.

That particular audience on that particular evening was horrible. The ironic thing is the Americans they were booing are coached by a man who has tried to expose doping in the US, not encourage it. It was a bad case of booing up the wrong tree, and I think the crowd should feel ashamed of themselves AND Kenteris.