180° Camel Spin?

[Petrushko Sashenko]

Is it physically possible to perform a camel spin way beyond the 90 degrees of amplitude?

I'd been thinking about it, and why no skater (that I've ever seen) has ever gone to the extreme of a 180 degrees camel spin. Even skaters famed for their groin flexibility such as Sasha Cohen or Yulia Lipnitskaya didn't pass beyond 90 degrees.

I know some rhythmic gymnastics' pivots are performed in what mimics an arabesque penché position, even though they're held for a couple of seconds max. But is it translatable to ice?

A 180° camel spin. Is it scientifically possible or mere science fiction and such a spin will only be performed on ones imagination?

 

[odinv]

Not quite sure I understand what you are talking about here. Do you mean something like an inverted biellmann (i.e. head to floor)?

 

[ladyjane]

Or a Charlotte as a spin?

 

[LiamForeman]

I think what they mean is taking my profile pic and put my free leg up to 180 degrees and start spinning. Is that correct?

 

[gliese]

I've tried it. It's really hard but possible. Likely not trained because there are other spins that will give the same points that are easier to train.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Theoretically it would be possible but would require extreme flexibility and balance. Here's an example from rhythmic gymnastics (1 minute mark) which actually goes beyond 180. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pe-DJsau6Y#t=1m

I would also add that Sasha's Camel spin was higher than the usual 90 degrees (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPG77iWPEyA 1:15 mark, note how high her foot is... above her head!)

 

[Mathman]

I think that figure skaters, whatever their flexibility, are not going to be able to do what rhythmic gymnasts and acrobatic dancers do. I would think that wearing heavy skates alone would be a factor.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

Not quite sure I understand what you are talking about here. Do you mean something like an inverted biellmann (i.e. head to floor)?

That's what I imagined, like a backscale pivot in rhythmic gymnastics.
Here's Ulyana Trofimova's: https://youtu.be/2KngvZirN8A?t=94

I'm not sure that would be possible on the ice and I agree with @Mathman that skates would definitely hinder that type of spin.

 

[gkelly]

I suspect the issue with spinning in this position in skates would be less about the weight of the skates or about flexibility per se and more about being able to balance over the sweet spot of the blade.

Although a wider range of flexibility would allow for a wider choice of free leg positions to negotiate the balance point.

We do sometimes see 180-degree splits, or close to it, briefly obtained in illusion spins.

And in pair spins, which can be more forgiving because there are two bodies that can counterbalance each other rather than the same skater needing to get both free leg and upper body working against each other to balance out the position.

 

[Petrushko Sashenko]

I think what they mean is taking my profile pic and put my free leg up to 180 degrees and start spinning. Is that correct?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. A camel spin with the free leg close to vertical instead of perpendicular to the skating leg.

 

[Petrushko Sashenko]

I suspect the issue with spinning in this position in skates would be less about the weight of the skates or about flexibility per se and more about being able to balance over the sweet spot of the blade.

Although a wider range of flexibility would allow for a wider choice of free leg positions to negotiate the balance point.

We do sometimes see 180-degree splits, or close to it, briefly obtained in illusion spins.

And in pair spins, which can be more forgiving because there are two bodies that can counterbalance each other rather than the same skater needing to get both free leg and upper body working against each other to balance out the position.

Yes, the Mishkutenok / Dmitriev Spin, in which she performs an "inverted I-Spin" with his assistance.