2003 Televised Skate Canada Thoughts... (;^)
- Thread starter Nadine
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- Aug 7, 2003
My understanding of the CoP is that if a skater repeats a jump not in combonation then the 2nd jump is counted as an incomplete combonation. Its somewhere on the ISU site, but I'd have to go look for it.
sc tv
What happens when they make a mistake in scoring? Doing invisible combos gets how many points. I didnt watch so Im asking if Peggy or Dick said anything about Cohens high points with that many mistakes. I understand he was brutal in his comments but most posters agree with what he said. Seems like this is a splatfest season with few clean programs. Maybe COP is making the skaters nervous. Lets hope we dont go into Skate Spinning instead of Jump Skating and get back to just plain skating which I use to enjoy until the 3/3 obsession got going. So many skaters are injured or have withdrawn from the GP and those who are left leave a lot to be desired. Not happy with this season. OH well Nats will be interesting.
What happens when they make a mistake in scoring? Doing invisible combos gets how many points. I didnt watch so Im asking if Peggy or Dick said anything about Cohens high points with that many mistakes. I understand he was brutal in his comments but most posters agree with what he said. Seems like this is a splatfest season with few clean programs. Maybe COP is making the skaters nervous. Lets hope we dont go into Skate Spinning instead of Jump Skating and get back to just plain skating which I use to enjoy until the 3/3 obsession got going. So many skaters are injured or have withdrawn from the GP and those who are left leave a lot to be desired. Not happy with this season. OH well Nats will be interesting.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Bronzes, Thank you very much! I looked it up, and indeed you are correct (count on ISU to come up with real Byzantine ways to complicate a perfectly good system -- and I am a CoP suppporter!)BravesSkateFan said:
Only two jumps with 3 or more revolutions can be repeated in the Free Program and they must be in either a jump combination or in a jump sequence. A repeated triple or quadruple solo jump, not included into a jump combination or jump sequence, will be considered as a part of a not successfully executed jump combination and counted as a jump combination with only one jump executed. If two jump combinations or jump sequences ( in total ) have already been executed, the repeated solo jump will be treated as an additional element and therefore not considered.
Indeed, the base value she got for the jump, 6.1, is the base value of straight forward lutz.
First of all, there are two people checking this -- technical specialist and technical controller. Also, I agree that the judges have enough to worry about without also thinking of violations.
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- Jul 26, 2003
Three, actually because there is a tech specialist, a tech controller, and an assistant technical specialist.Ptichka said:
Why Cohen was given credit for a combo is beyond me.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2003
Re: Super Sasha's phantom combo!
Yes indeedy! Wonder when the first SCANDAL will erupt! It's just sad, because so many of the skaters seem genuinely enthused about the new system or at least willing to give it a chance -- IMO it has so much potential for good, but if the bugs can't be ironed out (now there's an image!) there is equal potential for a mess to rival SLC.
skatingfan5 said:Oh, the wonderful accuracy of the new Code of Points. If sure puts a lot in the hands of one person -- but this is MUCH better than letting 9 judges determine whether a violation has occured, isn't it.I'm glad that the final results weren't close -- like the less than 0.5 difference between bronze and 4th place for the Men at Lalique this week -- or for the pairs finals a few weeks ago.
Yes indeedy! Wonder when the first SCANDAL will erupt! It's just sad, because so many of the skaters seem genuinely enthused about the new system or at least willing to give it a chance -- IMO it has so much potential for good, but if the bugs can't be ironed out (now there's an image!) there is equal potential for a mess to rival SLC.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
giseldepkat - Sasha's phantom combo and credit for a third lutz in the prgram (actually flutzes) does indeed have to be called to the Zayak Rule. The 3 specialists let this go by. The grade should have been 0.
Can this be the first scandal? Probably not. It could defintely be called ineptness.
This case should be discussed. I am not interested in putting a skater down. I want no more of this in the future after the Cop goes into action next year. One can see how easy it will be to fix the scores.
Joe
Can this be the first scandal? Probably not. It could defintely be called ineptness.
This case should be discussed. I am not interested in putting a skater down. I want no more of this in the future after the Cop goes into action next year. One can see how easy it will be to fix the scores.
Joe
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Joe, Sasha did not do a third Lutz. She did, and got credit for, a 3Lutz (was intended to be a combo, but she did not do the second jump, so she only got credit for the jump that she did), 3Flip, 3Loop, 2Axel, "3Lutz + combo (failed)", 3Toe and 3Salchow.
I think the point is that the ISU modified the Zayak rule this year precisely to allow this. Maybe the old Zayak rule needs to be reinstated, but the way it is now, it is OK to do a jump twice. The second time, the skater's punishment is that it will be scored as a failed combo. This is a less severe punishment than under the old and apparently now abandoned Zayak rule.
This is not unfair, since it applies to all skaters equally. It's just one of the many rule changes that are incorporated into the CoP.
I conjecture that the reason for the rule change is to encourage skaters to go ahead and try combinations, without having to fear getting dinged by a Zayak violation in case they fail.
Much, much, much worse than any of these details of the new scoring system is the issue of secret judging. The ISU's position that maintaining secrecy will protect the judges from unethical pressure from their federations is the height of absurdity.
Mathman
I think the point is that the ISU modified the Zayak rule this year precisely to allow this. Maybe the old Zayak rule needs to be reinstated, but the way it is now, it is OK to do a jump twice. The second time, the skater's punishment is that it will be scored as a failed combo. This is a less severe punishment than under the old and apparently now abandoned Zayak rule.
This is not unfair, since it applies to all skaters equally. It's just one of the many rule changes that are incorporated into the CoP.
I conjecture that the reason for the rule change is to encourage skaters to go ahead and try combinations, without having to fear getting dinged by a Zayak violation in case they fail.
Much, much, much worse than any of these details of the new scoring system is the issue of secret judging. The ISU's position that maintaining secrecy will protect the judges from unethical pressure from their federations is the height of absurdity.
Mathman
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- Jul 28, 2003
I don't know why Idleracer found the Yagudin trbute hokey, but I know I thought it was hokey to show him going out on the ice, then show a montage of pictures and camera shots INSTEAD of his skate, then show him coming back off the ice. I'm not even a super fan of Yagudin and I felt a bit cheated, even though they were very nice pictures and camera shots.Dee4707 said:
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I agree with Jimmy. If they were going to ditch showing skaters who actually competed, then at least let us see Alexei SKATE a program.
Also whining because they didn't show much from Gladiator, my favorite program by Alexei.
Laura
Also whining because they didn't show much from Gladiator, my favorite program by Alexei.
Laura
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I thought the Yagudin tribute was hokey for exactly the reasons that were just pointed out. Nothing but an endless slow motion montage of various different performances, while alot of pompous music played in the background. The guy obviously just got through skating a whole new routine, but That they didn't show! I still would've preferred to see Jennifer Robinson's performance, but that's because I'm a guy.
Z
Zhenya's Girl
Guest
Is it possible that ABC did not show Alexei's skate for legal reasons because technically it was not part of Skate Canada and they didn't have the rights to it?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Mathman - I believe there was an attempt at a lutz combo in the beginning which only the lutz was completed; there was a regular lutz as scheduled; then there was a make-up of the original combo which only the lutz was completed. Even with a modified rule, it is weird. And this is going to be applied to all skaters? Let's see.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Ptichka - Ok, I'll agree. So she got credit for the modified zayak rule. It's still weird to me. Not Sasha, just the rule. To me, a combo is a single entity. If any of its parts fail then the whole thing fails. It is no longer a combo and why make it something other than what was intended? It's not the end of the world. A skater still has plenty of other scores to wrack up.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Well, here are my impressions:
Sasha: Great for all of the usual reasons, but not as good as Skate America. And Peggy finally verbalized perfectly what it was I've been trying to say...Sasha needs more "warmth" in her skating. Almost all of the moves are beautiful and its a great package..but something is still missing. I want to see her skate with all-out heart (cliche as that sounds) and really give it a genuine emotional charge. She seems to be working steadily towards this...maybe by Nationals or Worlds.
Arakawa: This was an improvement over Skate America in my mind. She seemed to be relating to the music a tad bit more and the 3lz/3t was beautiful. I hope she can put it all together and crack the top 4 at Worlds.
Van Der Perren: Well, I already started a thread in "The Edge" for him. WOW! Brilliant! Others seem to find him slow and "Morosoved", but I didn't come away with the same thoughts. There is something special about this skater. Now he just needs to get that 3a back and a quad to challenge the top contenders.
Plushenko: I like this program better than last years. Dick was very critical, and perhaps there was some merit to it, but overall I think it has a lot of potential. Hopefully, his knee will hold out and we can see something special at Worlds.
Sasha: Great for all of the usual reasons, but not as good as Skate America. And Peggy finally verbalized perfectly what it was I've been trying to say...Sasha needs more "warmth" in her skating. Almost all of the moves are beautiful and its a great package..but something is still missing. I want to see her skate with all-out heart (cliche as that sounds) and really give it a genuine emotional charge. She seems to be working steadily towards this...maybe by Nationals or Worlds.
Arakawa: This was an improvement over Skate America in my mind. She seemed to be relating to the music a tad bit more and the 3lz/3t was beautiful. I hope she can put it all together and crack the top 4 at Worlds.
Van Der Perren: Well, I already started a thread in "The Edge" for him. WOW! Brilliant! Others seem to find him slow and "Morosoved", but I didn't come away with the same thoughts. There is something special about this skater. Now he just needs to get that 3a back and a quad to challenge the top contenders.
Plushenko: I like this program better than last years. Dick was very critical, and perhaps there was some merit to it, but overall I think it has a lot of potential. Hopefully, his knee will hold out and we can see something special at Worlds.
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- Jul 28, 2003
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An announcement was made at the end of the exhibition numbers that the Skate Canada Grand Prix was officially closed. The next announcement was that there would be a tribute to Alexei so it was not legally part of SC. I just think that ABC for a lack of a better word----sucks!!! They've cut a lot of time out on Pairs and Dance. Thank God for my friend in Canada which showed Alexei's tribute and sent me the tape, even though I saw it live. He was very emotional and his skate to Memorial was filled with emotion and passion. Sorry to see my little boy move on!!!!
Dee
