2014-2015 GPF Pairs Short Program 12/11

[Excidra2001]

I'm sorry, but how is this bullying? Are you saying that a commentator isn't allowed to comment on a pair's weaknesses? Just because you happen to disagree with his assessment doesn't mean it's bullying

"there is even a joke about them (D/R) around the professional skaters." This is called bullying, and Trankov seems to be participating in this bullying.

 

[Alba]

Being over the top patriotic is a must these days for Russian TV, whether it's sports or otherwise. Can't blame them really, there is nothing else to talk about when things are as dire as they are in the motherland. Rouble hitting another historical low today against the U.S. dollar and Euro, inflation zooming way past 10% and food prices are skyrocketing with threatening shortages and Russian banks on the verge of collapsing with their foreign currency denominated debts being called by the end of this month and next year. Trankov is probably told to "spice" it up by the network, following Putin's speech in Russia's State of Union last week. Nothing like glory in sports to keep the country's morale up. Besides, these prize monies given out in US dollars just worth a lot more these days for Russians, so the difference between winning the GPF and finishing 2nd does make a huge difference. I feel sorry for them, these Skaters who are State sponsored must be under tremendous amount of pressure and they don't get to keep the prize money they win. Even when Slutskaya was commenting, she was over the top patriotic as well. What Trankov said is mild in comparison.

Oh god, here it comes the political statement.
I've heard so much of patriotic commentating from USA over the years, that I wonder what was their excuse. :sarcasm:

 

[Alba]

"there is even a joke about them (D/R) around the professional skaters." This is called bullying, and Trankov seems to be participating in this bullying.

"there is even a joke about them (D/R) around the professional skaters, that they're two solo skaters who skate as pair", finish the statement.

That is not bullying. It is not nice, as I said, and it's a bit irritating to express a legitimate criticism in that way towards your collegues, but in no way that's called bullying.
He is not trying to use force, threat, abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate them.
He's being a bit arrogant, maybe, and has a big mouth.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

Being over the top patriotic is a must these days for Russian TV, whether it's sports or otherwise. Can't blame them really, there is nothing else to talk about when things are as dire as they are in the motherland. Rouble hitting another historical low today against the U.S. dollar and Euro, inflation zooming way past 10% and food prices are skyrocketing with threatening shortages and Russian banks on the verge of collapsing with their foreign currency denominated debts being called by the end of this month and next year. Trankov is probably told to "spice" it up by the network, following Putin's speech in Russia's State of Union last week. Nothing like glory in sports to keep the country's morale up. Besides, these prize monies given out in US dollars just worth a lot more these days for Russians, so the difference between winning the GPF and finishing 2nd does make a huge difference. I feel sorry for them, these Skaters who are State sponsored must be under tremendous amount of pressure and they don't get to keep the prize money they win. Even when Slutskaya was commenting, she was over the top patriotic as well. What Trankov said is mild in comparison.

Would you please cite your sources about Trankov being told to spice it up? And would you please specify what was specifically patriotic in his comments? Was he talking about Russia vs. the World and arguing the dominance of the Russian system? Was he expressing in any way that Western athletes has it easier? What does the currency rate have to do with Trankov commenting? Is he the one who awards the prize?

And would you please name a single commentator who is not biased towards his/her countrymen?

 

[Pippuripihvi]

Is Trankov encouraging the bullying? Because making jokes about ones abilities or lack thereof
Is not funny and it is a form of bullying.

For those who said he is offering a fair assessement of D/R skate, the bystander is just as disgusting as the bully.

Geta grip, Trankov.

Well, if this is bullying, then Kurt Browning is the biggest bully ever

 

[apple123]

Stolbova had to adjust her balance at the landing of throw, and at many times she nearly lost it. How is that called smooth?

 

[peg]

"there is even a joke about them (D/R) around the professional skaters." This is called bullying, and Trankov seems to be participating in this bullying.

No, this is called relaying information. Was it necessary information? Probably not. But it was germane to his (legitimate) critique. Basically, he was saying "I'm not the only one who has this opinion."

By distorting the meaning of the word bullying, you do a disservice to all those who are victims of bullying. Your distortion trivializes what is often an extremely serious problem.

 

[peg]

"there is even a joke about them (D/R) around the professional skaters, that they're two solo skaters who skate as pair", finish the statement.

That is not bullying. It is not nice, as I said, and it's a bit irritating to express a legitimate criticism in that way towards your collegues, but in no way that's called bullying.
He is not trying to use force, threat, abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate them.
He's being a bit arrogant, maybe, and has a big mouth.

Meh. I don't even think it's arrogant. I think he was just trying to say other people have the same opinion about D/R. Maybe not the most graceful way of saying it, but not really a bog deal, IMO. As a commentator, he was expected to give his opinion, and it's not like all he did was criticize them. :confused2:

 

[wallylutz]

Would you please cite your sources about Trankov being told to spice it up?

Would you please take a deep breath and realize no source was claimed and therefore, none can be given?

And would you please specify what was specifically patriotic in his comments?

Would you please think for a second and realize claiming somebody has already reached their maximum, aka. unable to do any better or capable of improving anymore is downright rude and a coded phrase for "Russia is the best" and no one else can beat us no matter how hard they may try?

Would you please cite another commentator from any other country who has ever claimed so and so from another country has already reached their maximum while that skater or team happened to just better a skater/team from his/her country?

Was he talking about Russia vs. the World and arguing the dominance of the Russian system?

Good question, what do you think?

Was he expressing in any way that Western athletes has it easier?

Intriguing thoughts, care to share with us how you feel about this?

What does the currency rate have to do with Trankov commenting?

It has to do with what's going in the world affairs and also require some understanding of the economy. If you don't understand what the Rouble is going through right now, then you should do more reading. For your reading tonight : http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/12/russia-rouble-idUSL6N0TW0KE20141212

Is he the one who awards the prize?

Did someone suggest he is?

And would you please name a single commentator who is not biased towards his/her countrymen?

Lol, easy, Elvis Stojko. Known to follow his heart, never bother with what others think of him both while he was competing and after, that he got alienated by his own skating federation and moved to Mexico instead. His comments re: then Canada's men's champion got him into deep trouble with not only the skating federation and many of his countrymen.

 

[wallylutz]

No, this is called relaying information. Was it necessary information? Probably not. But it was germane to his (legitimate) critique. Basically, he was saying "I'm not the only one who has this opinion."

By distorting the meaning of the word bullying, you do a disservice to all those who are victims of bullying. Your distortion trivializes what is often an extremely serious problem.

I think you are the one who is confused. There is a difference between stating a fact and spreading hearsay. What Trankov did is the latter. If he is merely repeating a fact, then it's relaying information. I'd be interested to know who are those professional skaters joking about this. Since he obviously didn't give any names, all we have to rely on is his claim and nothing else. Was it a joke among Trankov's circle of skaters? Who are those people? Friends of D/R? We don't know. The context is everything. What one thinks is a joke may come across very differently. But by implying it's joke, he obviously thought that was funny. Tell you what, I think many people here are obviously not laughing with him, with reasons.

 

[Alba]

Meh. I don't even think it's arrogant. I think he was just trying to say other people have the same opinion about D/R. Maybe not the most graceful way of saying it, but not really a bog deal, IMO. As a commentator, he was expected to give his opinion, and it's not like all he did was criticize them. :confused2:

I get that, but it comes a bit as arrogant. Trankov in general can sound and look a bit like that tbh.
In anycase, that's why I'm against bringing skaters who are still competing, or coaches which is worse, to commentate.

 

[Alba]

I think you are the one who is confused. There is a difference between stating a fact and spreading hearsay. What Trankov did is the latter. If he is merely repeating a fact, then it's relaying information. I'd be interested to know who are those professional skaters joking about this. Since he obviously didn't give any names, all we have to rely on is his claim and nothing else.

About this, I don't think he's spreading hearsay but I still don't like that he said that.

In Eric's words:

"I put up with a lot of crap. Not just bullying but people who just thought I couldn't make it, people in skating who don't like how Meagan and I skate, people who say we don't deserve the marks we get. I've had to overcome a lot.

 

[Alba]

Sorry deleted. Double post.

 

[peg]

I think you are the one who is confused. There is a difference between stating a fact and spreading hearsay. What Trankov did is the latter. If he is merely repeating a fact, then it's relaying information. I'd be interested to know who are those professional skaters joking about this. Since he obviously didn't give any names, all we have to rely on is his claim and nothing else. Was it a joke among Trankov's circle of skaters? Who are those people? Friends of D/R? We don't know. The context is everything. What one thinks is a joke may come across very differently. But by implying it's joke, he obviously thought that was funny. Tell you what, I think many people here are obviously not laughing with him, with reasons.

OMG. Some people around here get their panties in a knot over the most trivial things. Why can't he relay something others have said? This isn't a court of law. It's commentating.

Also, I never said he was stating a fact. I said he was relaying information. That information may or may not be factual. In this case, it was opinions. What's the big deal?

 

[peg]

I get that, but it comes a bit as arrogant. Trankov in general can sound and look a bit like that tbh.
In anycase, that's why I'm against bringing skaters who are still competing, or coaches which is worse, to commentate.

I'm not generally a fan of TRankov, but I also don't think this was anything to get upset over (not saying you got overly upset - you noted it wasn't nice, but didn't get all bent out of shape or anything). It just seems sometimes skaters can't say anything without someone going into a tizzy about it. I just feel sorry for those skaters who not only have to skate well, but also always say exactly the right things - but not so right that people criticize them for never having a real opinion

And yes, you have a valid point about skaters still competing commentating on their competition. That can make even more innocent comments seem somehow more mean.

 

[sses1]

Of course Max was going to say that when he's bffs with S/K and while I think Trankov's comments were a bit tasteless, they're true. D/R have no chemistry together and 2 different styles of skating. Their programs aren't memorable and always leave me cold. And its not because he's gay, plenty of gay men have chemistry with females, its called acting. They just don't compliment each other in the right way, it's very distracting. I've actually never heard any commentator point this fact out in all the years that they've competed, until Max. Everyone chooses to instead compliment the tech side of their skating and that is very important but they only have SBS 3L and the occasional T3L (i'm not going to include the T4S because they haven't done it consistently enough). The problem is that their lifts have not changed and neither has their stroking style. D/R are in contention for a WGM but I see other teams in the future overpowering them.

 

[wallylutz]

About this, I don't think he's spreading hearsay but I still don't like that he said that.

In Eric's words:

"I put up with a lot of crap. Not just bullying but people who just thought I couldn't make it, people in skating who don't like how Meagan and I skate, people who say we don't deserve the marks we get. I've had to overcome a lot.

I am not aware of any top 10 skater or team in the world, whether current or retired, who can honestly say everyone in skating universally like how the said skater/team skate. For that matter, I am not aware of any such top 10 skater who can state that he/she/they have never been criticized for being overmarked. If you can think of any, please let me know. Stating that he know he has doubters, as everyone else surely has as well, isn't the same as someone else making fun of another competitor being "the joke among other professional skaters". Can you imagine if Yu Na Kim comments on KBS and say Mao Asada is a joke among professional skaters? That is, Mao Asada, on many occasions have made self-depreciating / modest comments about herself. Let's switch this out again, how would you feel if Yagudin comments on Russian TV stating that Plushenko is a joke among professional skaters? Trankov who has competed against D/R many times and arguably is still a current competitor is making unprofessional comments and hearsay. The latter for not citing or clarifying who the said skaters are. In other words, he is trash talking. Even last year, he is known to make controversial statements about other skaters but also joke about himself. Perhaps he honestly think he is funny but don't blame others if they don't share his "joke".

 

[wallylutz]

Also, I never said he was stating a fact. I said he was relaying information. That information may or may not be factual. In this case, it was opinions. What's the big deal?

What's the big deal? All right, let's do a test. You go to the Edge and post the following thread title : "Yu Na Kim: Mao Asada is a joke among professional skaters."

Come back and tell us what's the big deal.

 

[peg]

I am not aware of any top 10 skater or team in the world, whether current or retired, who can honestly say everyone in skating universally like how the said skater/team skate. For that matter, I am not aware of any such top 10 skater who can state that he/she/they have never been criticized for being overmarked. If you can think of any, please let me know. Stating that he know he has doubters, as everyone else surely has as well, isn't the same as someone else making fun of another competitor being "the joke among other professional skaters". Can you imagine if Yu Na Kim comments on KBS and say Mao Asada is a joke among professional skaters? That is, Mao Asada, on many occasions have made self-depreciating / modest comments about herself. Let's switch this out again, how would you feel if Yagudin comments on Russian TV stating that Plushenko is a joke among professional skaters?

You know, there's a huge difference between saying "there is a joke about so-and-so" vs. saying "so-and-so is a joke." Huge difference.

And like you said, no skater - no matter how talented - has ever had absolutely everyone saying they are great. Everyone gets critiqued sometimes.

 

[peg]

What's the big deal? All right, let's do a test. You go to the Edge and post the following thread title : "Yu Na Kim: Mao Asada is a joke among professional skaters."

Come back and tell us what's the big deal.

Perhaps English isn't your first language, but I can assure you that saying "there is a joke about someone" is extremely different from saying that the person (or team) in question IS a joke. A joke is about a very specific quality or foible of that person. We all have things that are laughable.