2015-16 State of Russian Ice Dance

[gmyers]

Russia has an issue with force ripening their talent and not patiently letting them evolve. This is an issue not only with ice dance but almost every discipline. If there is any art form that needs time its dance. It's the Russian FED that needs to learn how to manage their athletes. And an ounce of patience wouldn't hurt.

But the whole point of being a Russian ice dance team is to win world and Olympic gold.

 

[WeakAnkles]

One of the most interesting tidbits in the Zhulin interview was his comment re Alla S. who is married to Piseyev who ruled Russian Figure Skating for years.

Zhulin: "Before, Alla Shekhovtsova was closely involved in ice dance, now the federation pushed her a little away from this role. She works in the Technical Committee, and don’t care much Russian figure skating, to which she gave four Olympics. How she fighted for us! We had such a support from her! She was a fan of her work, as Piseyev. These were the people, who really moved the ice dancing ahead. I am very grateful to them for support when (Tatiana) Navka and (Roman) Kostomarov skated. And now Alla Viktorovna is really sad, and here you are – the result. Such people shouldn’t be removed. It’s my opinion."

In an earlier interview with Elena Vaitsekhovskaya Alla denied any influence
EV: I've always assumed you were quite influential in the RFSF (Russian Figure Skating Federation)
AS: I'd say the rumours of my influence overmarked.

But when Alexander Gorshkov was head of the Ice Dance Tech Committee, Alla was one of his favorite dance judges and she was on a majority of local and international ice dance panels for many years. She is now on the Ice Dance Tech Committee, but in the least influential position and doesn't have the same "connection" with the current head of the Tech Committee, who is far more judicial in her judging panel appointments. We see Alla doing more single and pair skating events where Russia heads that Tech Committee.

But you know politics has NOTHING to do with the scoring and resul--- [cough, cough, coughcoughcough]

Nope, even I can't swallow that one.

 

[bramweld]

But the whole point of being a Russian ice dance team is to win world and Olympic gold.

Precisely, from the womb. Maturation isn't necessary. Lunacy

 

[Ares]

It is well known that they did have a romantic relationship of some kind when he was coaching her. She posted numerous unambiguous pictures and messages on her social media substantiating this, though they have since been removed. While obviously much younger than him, she was of legal age at the time. More is not really definitely known.

What? First Miki and now Elena? Or did I miss some relationship with his skaters in between?

 

[Ares]

This thread is juicier than any modern soap opera.... move over Empire. LOL. LOVE all the knowledgeable posters on here. Thank you.

Honestly, I have never like any of the three couples that dominate Russian ice dance now. I am not emotionally invested in seeing any of them do well and I find that I/K was super overrated but I cringed every time B/S skated. Hopefully there will be more fairness/funding so that the best and most-loved pair has a chance to win/have support.

I can't truly warm up to any either - I can't put my finger on what could be the reason though. Maybe it's their programs? The last one that I liked was ... Khokhlova / Novitski :shocked:

 

[gmyers]

Precisely, from the womb. Maturation isn't necessary. Lunacy

If Russia is not careful and doesn't keep the pressure on Russian ice dance will become like British ice dance. So some pressure is mandatory.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I can't truly warm up to any either - I can't put my finger on what could be the reason though. Maybe it's their programs? The last one that I liked was ... Khokhlova / Novitski :shocked:

The reason is probably that the Russian Ice Dance program is stuck in the 20th century, particularly in terms of choreography, interpretation and program construction. Their choices of music haven't, for the most part, been so hot either. Uber! Drahmah! sold in the twentieth century. In the twenty-first, however, you can't rely on it to "sell" a program, at least not in the same way. Look at P/C: they just won back to back Worlds doing soft, romantic, feel-gooeyooeygoody programs. Hardly the sturm und drang of Russian ice dance during their heyday.

YMMV of course.

 

[Ice Dance]

Look at P/C: they just won back to back Worlds doing soft, romantic, feel-gooeyooeygoody programs.

We cannot afford any more of this. Leave my Russian drama alone. Anna Karenina was doing beautifully.

 

[Marta25]

I agree that Russian Ice Dance needs to be modernized. ASAP. But I question if the right way is to just copy what everyone else is doing. For me Russian Ice Dance means fire, passion, drama and speed. They just have to package all these things in a more modern way. Ilinykh/Katsalapov used to be for me a typical Russian team, but without looking old-fashioned (at least in the Olympic season) and the judges were practically drooling over them. They were begging them to get finally consistent to give them all the titles they seemed destined for to win.
I`m not saying I/K sould get back together, for that my love for Ruslena is too big but I do think that if a team manages to combine everything that makes Russian Ice Dancing so exciting with more modern choreography, we could see again a Russian team in the Top 5.
I`m not sure who is going to be the team to breakthrough. Every team has its issues to deal with, but this Worlds showed that nothing is set in stone re Russia`s #1.

 

[Snow63]

But you know politics has NOTHING to do with the scoring and resul--- [cough, cough, coughcoughcough]

Nope, even I can't swallow that one.

Oh, come on now. You don't REALLY think she's the only one who does 'that' thing, right? And RusFed is definitely is not the most powerful. We all still remember Sault Lake City and Vancouver

 

[Snow63]

I agree that Russian Ice Dance needs to be modernized. ASAP. But I question if the right way is to just copy what everyone else is doing. For me Russian Ice Dance means fire, passion, drama and speed. They just have to package all these things in a more modern way. Ilinykh/Katsalapov used to be for me a typical Russian team, but without looking old-fashioned (at least in the Olympic season) and the judges were practically drooling over them. They were begging them to get finally consistent to give them all the titles they seemed destined for to win.
I`m not saying I/K sould get back together, for that my love for Ruslena is too big but I do think that if a team manages to combine everything that makes Russian Ice Dancing so exciting with more modern choreography, we could see again a Russian team in the Top 5.
I`m not sure who is going to be the team to breakthrough. Every team has its issues to deal with, but this Worlds showed that nothing is set in stone re Russia`s #1.

As much as I like Elena, I don't think it's the Fed who made them suffer. With this horrible messy SD (let's call a bird 'a bird' and not 'a dragon') they had ZERO chance to achieve something this season. Especially with falls and other mistakes. Last season they had best SD on the field (in MY opinion) and it helped them to compensate for their dull FD (I am the only sane person who actually liked it ). So this time it was the other way around, but the thing is it doesn't work the other way around. Especially for a team who is new and not established in judges' eyes. So I just hope Elena and Ruslan have learned from their mistakes, and that Shpilband will do the work he's paid to do. Potentionally they're not worse than Sinitsina/Katsalapov and Bobrova/Soloviev.

 

[Marta25]

As much as I like Elena, I don't think it's the Fed who made them suffer. With this horrible messy SD (let's call a bird 'a bird' and not 'a dragon') they had ZERO chance to achieve something this season. Especially with falls and other mistakes. Last season they had best SD on the field (in MY opinion) and it helped them to compensate for their dull FD (I am the only sane person who actually liked it ). So this time it was the other way around, but the thing is it doesn't work the other way around. Especially for a team who is new and not established in judges' eyes. So I just hope Elena and Ruslan have learned from their mistakes, and that Shpilband will do the work he's paid to do. Potentionally they're not worse than Sinitsina/Katsalapov and Bobrova/Soloviev.

Yeah, it was a shame that I/Z`s coaches didn`t use the momentum they had from their first season. They were pretty close to the Top 5 in their first season, but with the bad choices Kustarova/Alexeeva made for them, they now have to win back the Russian and international judges.

I think what Shpilband does really well with his teams is to build up their careers. He gave Chock/Bates programs that showed off their strengths and once they reached the World podium, he gave them with Rachmaninov a piece that wasn`t their usual style, but that challenged them.
For next season I really hope I/Z won`t touch the Hip Hop option in the SD and come up with a FD that shows off their skills.
TBH, I hope that none of the Russian teams touch that Hip Hop option, I`m just not convinced that this is a dancing style that will work on ice, especially since they have to use Hip Hop on the step sequence.

 

[bramweld]

Yeah, it was a shame that I/Z`s coaches didn`t use the momentum they had from their first season. They were pretty close to the Top 5 in their first season, but with the bad choices Kustarova/Alexeeva made for them, they now have to win back the Russian and international judges.

I think what Shpilband does really well with his teams is to build up their careers. He gave Chock/Bates programs that showed off their strengths and once they reached the World podium, he gave them with Rachmaninov a piece that wasn`t their usual style, but that challenged them.
For next season I really hope I/Z won`t touch the Hip Hop option in the SD and come up with a FD that shows off their skills.
TBH, I hope that none of the Russian teams touch that Hip Hop option, I`m just not convinced that this is a dancing style that will work on ice, especially since they have to use Hip Hop on the step sequence.

Hip hip would work for teams that aren't quite fluid. It's about turning a weakness into a strength. Zueva is genius at that.

 

[gmyers]

I agree that Russian Ice Dance needs to be modernized. ASAP. But I question if the right way is to just copy what everyone else is doing. For me Russian Ice Dance means fire, passion, drama and speed. They just have to package all these things in a more modern way. Ilinykh/Katsalapov used to be for me a typical Russian team, but without looking old-fashioned (at least in the Olympic season) and the judges were practically drooling over them. They were begging them to get finally consistent to give them all the titles they seemed destined for to win.
I`m not saying I/K sould get back together, for that my love for Ruslena is too big but I do think that if a team manages to combine everything that makes Russian Ice Dancing so exciting with more modern choreography, we could see again a Russian team in the Top 5.
I`m not sure who is going to be the team to breakthrough. Every team has its issues to deal with, but this Worlds showed that nothing is set in stone re Russia`s #1.

They have to copy first and then expand into what they really want to do. They don't have time to find what the judges want from them. They should see what judges like, do it, and then when accepted and having goodwill do what they really want. The worst thing in ice dance now is doing a program that looks russian. Its just out of favor and over. It may be sad and they may hate it but with it very close to no Russian ice dance team in the top 10 and maybe one spot for peyongcheng Olympics looking likely they have to change.

 

[Snow63]

They have to copy first and then expand into what they really want to do. They don't have time to find what the judges want from them. They should see what judges like, do it, and then when accepted and having goodwill do what they really want. The worst thing in ice dance now is doing a program that looks russian. Its just out of favor and over. It may be sad and they may hate it but with it very close to no Russian ice dance team in the top 10 and maybe one spot for peyongcheng Olympics looking likely they have to change.

I don't think it's ALWAYS the programm, although it's a very big part of the problem. Bobrova/Soloviev's FD is very Russian, and it was accepted well enough by both judges and fans of ID, they beat Cappellini/Lanotte at Euros and overall looked good the whole season.

 

[gmyers]

I don't think it's ALWAYS the programm, although it's a very big part of the problem. Bobrova/Soloviev's FD is very Russian, and it was accepted well enough by both judges and fans of ID, they beat Cappellini/Lanotte at Euros and overall looked good the whole season.

There are huge tech problems too. Even if B/s program was generally accepted even if some said there was too much drama you have the tech issues that made them lose euros by a ton.

 

[Snow63]

There are huge tech problems too. Even if B/s program was generally accepted even if some said there was too much drama you have the tech issues that made them lose euros by a ton.

We were talking about if judges hate Russian programms, I pointed out they didn't. Tech issues or not.

 

[WeakAnkles]

We cannot afford any more of this. Leave my Russian drama alone. Anna Karenina was doing beautifully.

Well there's a quotation from Woody Allen that I love (I'll paraphrase): If you're an Orthodox Jew and eat pork, eat it until the fat dribbles down your chin. If you're going to do trad Uber!Russian!Drahhhhhhhhhhmahhhhhhhhhhh!!!! then let B/S's Anna Karenina be your guide.

(ie Yes, I was a big fan of the AK program--no sarcasm here folks!)

 

[gmyers]

We were talking about if judges hate Russian programms, I pointed out they didn't. Tech issues or not.

Even if they didnt hate it its wrong to do. Its not the preference. Its not what wins. Its time to change.

 

[Snow63]

Even if they didnt hate it its wrong to do. Its not the preference. Its not what wins. Its time to change.

It is time to progress, not just to change. I'm not here for changes just because of changes. We don't need every team to do what's hot now, Weaver/Poje paid their price for that already.