2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[ice coverage]

Non-earth-shattering (understatement ) FYI, if anyone happens to cares:

The list for the September media summit remains incomplete, but it has been updated.

I have gone back to my original post on the topic and have made note there of the additions.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...gure-Skating&p=1749599&viewfull=1#post1749599​

Again, this post is merely an FYI. Not an attempt to stir up rehashing of any discussion of the list.

---

.... That 2013-2014 season seemed horrid for Max ...

I know that musicfan is a big supporter of Max , and the following is not a complaint against musicfan.

No question, it was absolutely horrid for Max that he did not get to Sochi. Undoubtedly the worst heartbreak (by far) of his figure skating career. Took a lot of mental strength for him to move forward thereafter.

Because Max had bright spots in 2013-14 too, my two cents are that I do not like to think of the "season" as horrid. (A medal at his first-ever GP; selection for the world team; assisting Jeremy in getting three spots for the next year ... decidedly more modest feathers in Max's cap, but I do not want to lose sight of them entirely.)

 

[bevybean]

Anyone else having math problems with their picks for who the US sends to the Olympics? My picks for the US Olympic team is (in no particular order): Nathan Chen, Jason Brown, Adam Rippon, Max Aaron, Josh Farris, Ross Miner and Vincent Zhou.

The issue being that 7 is greater than 3.

I might start to narrow this down once I see GP performances, but maybe not. My heart thinks certain men should go because they deserve the chance given their careers as a whole. Thank goodness I don't have to decide!

 

[ice coverage]

And .... the athlete list for the USOC media summit in September already has been updated again. (For the second time in two days.)

Once again, I have gone back to my original post (from Jul 14) on the topic and have made note there of the additions.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...gure-Skating&p=1749599&viewfull=1#post1749599​

As of Jul 20: The U.S. men on the list are Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Adam.

---

Anyone else having math problems with their picks for who the US sends to the Olympics? My picks for the US Olympic team is (in no particular order): Nathan Chen, Jason Brown, Adam Rippon, Max Aaron, Josh Farris, Ross Miner and Vincent Zhou.

The issue being that 7 is greater than 3.

I might start to narrow this down once I see GP performances, but maybe not. My heart thinks certain men should go because they deserve the chance given their careers as a whole. Thank goodness I don't have to decide!

:sad4: Yes, I will be happy for whichever three do go, but I know I will be shedding tears for those who must stay home.

For me, the "math issue" is more like 8 > 3 ... because of Grant.

---

News

Entries for JGP Australia (Aug 23-26), per the USFS assignments page:

Men:

Krasnozhon
Sjoberg​

Ladies:

Cui
Nguyen​

Dance:

Gropman/Somerville
Lewis/Bye​

 

[StitchMonkey]

Anyone else having math problems with their picks for who the US sends to the Olympics? My picks for the US Olympic team is (in no particular order): Nathan Chen, Jason Brown, Adam Rippon, Max Aaron, Josh Farris, Ross Miner and Vincent Zhou.

The issue being that 7 is greater than 3.

I might start to narrow this down once I see GP performances, but maybe not. My heart thinks certain men should go because they deserve the chance given their careers as a whole. Thank goodness I don't have to decide!

In some ways I am dreading US Nationals for this reason. There are just too many good skaters. Really we should add Grant to your list... he has been very respectable this quad. Timothy Dolensky as well is not out of contention and can work magic on the ice. I actually would not even be surprised if Sean Rabbit has "a moment" as well... here me out.

Let's look back on the recent 8th place finishers at Nationals.

• In 2012 Max Aaron was 8th, in 2013 he won gold - arguably being the story of the event.
• In 2013 Jason Brown was 8th, in 2014 Riverdance happened and he won silver- arguably being the story of the event.
• In 2014 Adam Rippon was 8th, in 2015 he had a major breakthrough/comeback and surged to second - arguably being the story of the event.
• In 2015 Nathan Chen was 8th, in 2016 Nathan lands 4 quads and wins bronze - arguably being the story of the event.
• In 2016 Vincent Zhou was 8th, in 2017 he surged to second - ok maybe not the story of the event, but he sure as hell was a story of the event and made his splash - it even was the silver which is the most common.

I think 8th place finish seems to be a sorta sweet spot for the skaters. Good enough you are on the radar and in the conversation, but low enough that there is less pressure so they can just skate with their all. With three spots I actually could see Sean Rabbit having a Riverdance level of skate and sneaking in for a bronze. He has the ability to suck in the crowd, if he goes clean and others falter... stranger things have happened.

So yeah... i think we should be looking at 10 skaters... and the season has not even started! Come this fall i suspect at least one of, Jordan Moeller, Andrew Torgashev, Kevin Shum, Emmanuel Savary to make a statement saying they should be in the conversation too.

Nationals is going to be so soul crushing.

 

[Mrs. P]

This field, no doubt, is likely the deepest U.S. men's field yet, even considering though there no individual World/Olympic medal winners in this group.

Here's the top 12 from 2017:
1.) Nathan Chen - 4CC Champ, GPF medalist (along with GP medal at NHK), 2017 National champ 2- time national medalist; junior national champ (2X - 2012-2014)
2.) Vincent Zhou - 2017 World Jr. Champ; junior national champ (2013)
3.) Jason Brown - 2014 Olympic Team bronze four GP medals, 2015 national champ 3-time national medalist, Two-time junior world medalist; junior national champ (2010)
4.) Grant Hochstein - 2-time National medalist; past junior national medalist
5.) Ross Miner - 4CC bronze medalist, three GP medals, 3-time national medalist, junior national champ (2009)
6.) Alexander Johnson - highest finish yet (was also 6th in 2016); past junior national medalist
7.) Timothy Dolensky - highest finish yet (was also 7th in 2016); past junior national medalist
8.) Sean Rabbit - highest finish yet
9.) Max Aaron - three GP medals, 2013 National champ; junior national champ (2011)
10.) Jordan Moeller - highest finish yet; past junior national medalist
11.) Andrew Torgashev - debut; junior national champ (2015)
12.) Kevin Shum - junior national medalist

PLUS
Adam Rippon - 4CC Champ (2010), five GP medals, 2016 national champ, 3-time national medlaist, two-time junior world champ (2008-2009), junior national champ (2008)
Joshua Farris - 4CC silver medalist (2015), 3-time national medalist, junior world champ (2013)
Tomoki Hiwatashi - 2016 Jr. World bronze medalist; junior national champ (2016)

It is going to be pretty heartbreaking.

 

[Mrs. P]

Vincent Zhou's going for a six-quad FS per the latest piece in his IN series: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/07/06/240774436/creating-the-program-zhous-choreography

And someone just tweeted Vincent for 97+ in his Skate Detroit program. Here's a vid: https://mobile.twitter.com/magicaleggrolls/status/888464281745928195

 

[Tavi...]

Vincent Zhou's going for a six-quad FS per the latest piece in his IN series: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/07/06/240774436/creating-the-program-zhous-choreography

And someone just tweeted Vincent for 97+ in his Skate Detroit program. Here's a vid: https://mobile.twitter.com/magicaleggrolls/status/888464281745928195

I was just coming here to post this! Looks like he will be a strong candidate for Olympic Team. Presentation seems much improved.

 

[Mrs. P]

Jumps look good. It's a smartly choreographed program.

 

[Tavi...]

Jumps look good. It's a smartly choreographed program.

Agreed! Someone on FSU posted his score: 4Lz-3T, 4F, 3A - 97.68

 

[sheetz]

Looking very impressive! Was surprised he went for the 4F instead of 4S. Could be the next man to break 300.

 

[mrrice]

Jumps look good. It's a smartly choreographed program.

Wow!!! He really looks great and those jumps look very, very solid. That is a huge number for an SP this early in the season and if he skates like that at Nationals.. He'll be back on the podium for sure.

 

[Ender]

Jumps look good. It's a smartly choreographed program.

I think Zhou didn't fully rotate his quads there. That's too generous marks. But I am afraid judges and specialists might not call anyone this season at all.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think Zhou didn't fully rotate his quads there. That's too generous marks. But I am afraid judges and specialists might not call anyone this season at all.

I can't really tell with the video, so can't comment. He does seem to get enough height to rotate fully, but we'll see.

 

[shmay]

I think Zhou didn't fully rotate his quads there.

Both were fully rotated.

Not a big fan of either Zhou or Nathan Chen's respective styles of skating, but it's fairly obvious that they will occupy two of the three spots for US men in Korea, barring injury or mental breakdown.

 

[mrrice]

So, did Vincent win the SP?

 

[concorde]

I agree that he is the #2 US man now. I still believe it was a bad decision to not send him to Senior Worlds last year.

He is under appreciated.

 

[mrrice]

Both were fully rotated.

Not a big fan of either Zhou or Nathan Chen's respective styles of skating, but it's fairly obvious that they will occupy two of the three spots for US men in Korea, barring injury or mental breakdown.

This is an interesting perspective. Stylistically, I still prefer Joshua Farris and Adam to both Nathan and Vincent. However, it has become clear that without 2 muli-quad programs, these men will not have a shot against the rest of the world. I'd love to see Max or Joshua back on the podium but, if Adam Rippon lands his jumps, I think has the best to match Hanyu, Javi, Patrick, and Mikhail from a component standpoint.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I tried pausing grabbing screen shots of Vincent's landings.

His 4Z looks a downgrade, but it is pretty close to only being under-rotated.

http://i.imgur.com/TVpxeFS.jpg

The 4F looks right on the line, but benefit of the doubt does to the skater so it is rotated.

http://i.imgur.com/a9lEJcc.png

This is the right time to be trying it regardless of the outcome. So long as his body can handle it, now is the time to experiment. He could have it by nationals.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Both were fully rotated.

No, they weren't. The 4F was UR, not sure on the Lz, and the 3A was there about as well.

Regardless, if they don't call him, with 6 quads in the FS too, if he can land at least 5 he seems to have that 2nd spot in his hands. Makes for a tough fight for the 3rd.

ETA: Ah thanks for the pics! I would still call the F too.

 

[mrrice]

I agree that he is the #2 US man now. I still believe it was a bad decision to not send him to Senior Worlds last year.

He is under appreciated.

Did they not send him or did he decline the offer? I never remember the timeline but, I know he wanted to win the Junior World title, which he did. Could he have competed in Junior and Senior Worlds during the same year? As a Junior, he probably didn't have a qualifying score, is that right?