2023 GP France: Men's Thoughts? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2023 GP France: Men's Thoughts?

figureskatingandrainbows

As Kao Miura once said, スケートって難しい
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Dec 8, 2020
Country
Olympic
And he is coming into his own and clawing his way to the top! He's been learning a bunch of quads, successfully landing them in his programs and he even won a Challenger in this, his first senior, season. Everyone has bad skates now and then, Nik had them at this event, so what?
I'm even more excited for his next GP assignment now. How will he deal with this setback? Will he go back to a safer layout, or, on the contrary, will he add more quads? I enjoy following his development, but he is just out of juniors, naturally he won't skate perfectly every time.
Nik dislocated his shoulder a bit in practice before the short, and was skating on two different types of boots that were heavily taped up because one of his Edeas broke before this competition. I think this was more bad luck than a reflection of his skating ability.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
The men were the main reason why I went to France this year... How often do you get 3 top contenders in one GP? And they did not disappoint! The short program I wrote about in the competition thread.

Saturday morning I decided to go and watch the men practice. And it was overall one of the best decisions I have made in a while ;) An hour gives you a bit more time to observe than the 6-min warm-up and the 2nd group was particularly interesting to watch. I was trying to keep an eye on all 3 top contenders. Just their warm-up routine was revealing. Adam and Yuma were doing sth useful (so to say) all the time, going for steps and turns, edge exercises etc. Ilia skated around most of the time, doing some half-hearted edge exercises. He skated along Adam at one point doing a similar pattern on one foot (Adam had his leg bent up and held it from the ankle, Ilia swung his free leg lazily on the side) and Ilia almost tripped over his feet. They had a big laugh about it. But the difference in the quality and control over blades on ice between the two skaters was very clear.

The latter part of the session was cool because of massive number of quad attempts... Before his RT, Ilia started doing very big 3As and after 3-4 of those he went for the 4A for which I am very greatful especially as it did not come out in the competition.

The first group in the competition was interesting to watch because I started to think about the skating patterns and how that already discerns the good from the bad. Landry Le May and Luc Economides skated mostly from one end to another using mostly just 2-3 different jump positions, Le May probably did not come away from the vicinity of the middle long axis. Economides covered a bit more ice (and his steps were utterly delightful). Kataise and Shimada skated mostly in the left and center of the rink only visiting the right side briefly - Shimada's activities stopped exactly where the last judge in the right sat. The second group had variety in entrace patterns, lots of different places where jumps and other elements were placed. And they covered even the edges of the ice.

Boyang Jin was actually perhaps my biggest surprise despite the poor jumps. His skating skills and movement in general are beginning to resemble what a good skater should be. Good job, Brian! Hope all this does not come too late.

Camden Pulkinen has the slowest and most lethargic free I have seen in a long long time.

Lukas Britschgi is getting the consistency and although the free might be slightly politically incorrect, it fitted him quite well.

Yuma was impressive in the short, but the free felt a little empty for me, especially the first part. He had started to seem overtly cautious and never really giving much to his performance, but maybe working with Carolina Koster is starting to show. I felt also that the choice of music was a little bit unfortunate since Adam did that so masterfully in his short last year and the way the choreo for Yuma went along, it was a little bit like a poor man's version of the same. He has maybe yet to find the jackpot music and program choice.

Ilia chose to attempt quality over difficulty and it could have worked out. He still has a lot of work in making the skating skills work for his adavantage - eg the steps were s---l---o---w and uninteresting. His presentation is empty posturing, not much feeling in it. He is still young, though, I do remember seeing Nathan Chen at about the same age in Worlds 2018 and being majorly disappointed. Nathan got a whole lot better in the 4 years that followed... I think the panel liked him a bit too much - those PCS were really not in line with what Yuma and Adam did.

But my heart and the evening belonged to Adam Siao Him Fa. This was his 5th competition this season - most top men do 5 over the entire season... He has being doing brilliantly so far and I dared to hope that he would be able to do two clean programs also here. The short was exquisite and the free even better. I have no superlatives left really. The control, the intensity, the beauty of every movement, the truth in how he feels the music. I just loved every second of it.

And at the same time I thought that, yeah, just an amazing performance and then the panel will give him 8.75s tops... Was somewhat delighted to see that it was mostly 9s and above in the end. But what does he have to do to get really good scores? Get a US, Japanese or Canadian passport (Russian does not count at the mo)? I thank the Finnish and Chinese judges for the high scores!

It was truly a good competion, I was totally exhausted after it ended, skipped pairs and victory ceremonies, and went to my lodgings to get some sleep...
 
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4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
The men were the main reason why I went to France this year... How often do you get 3 top contenders in one GP? And they did not disappoint! The short program I wrote about in the competition thread.

Saturday morning I decided to go and watch the men practice. And it was overall one of the best decisions I have made in a while ;) An hour gives you a bit more time to observe than the 6-min warm-up and the 2nd group was particularly interesting to watch. I was trying to keep an eye on all 3 top contenders. Just their warm-up routine was revealing. Adam and Yuma were doing sth useful (so to say) all the time, going for steps and turns, edge exercises etc. Ilia skated around most of the time, doing some half-hearted edge exercises. He skated along Adam at one point doing a similar pattern on one foot (Adam head his leg bent up and held it from the ankle, Ilia swung his free leg lazily on the side) and Ilia almost tripped over his feet. They had a big laugh about it. But the difference in the quality and control over blades on ice between the two skaters was very clear.

The latter part of the session was cool because of massive number of quad attempts... Before his RT, Ilia started doing very big 3As and after 3-4 of those he went for the 4A for which I am very greatful especially as it did not come out in the competition.

The first group in the competition was interesting to watch because I started to think about the skating patterns and how that already discerns the good from the bad. Landry Le May and Luc Economides skated mostly from one end to another using mostly just 2-3 different jump positions, Le May probably did not come away from the vicinity of the middle long axis. Economides covered a bit more ice (and his steps were utterly delightful). Kataise and Shimada skated mostly in the left and center of the rink only visiting the right side briefly - Shimada's activities stopped exactly where the last judge in the right sat. The second group had variety in entrace patterns, lots of different places where jumps and other elements were placed. And they covered even the edges of the ice.

Boyang Jin was actually perhaps my biggest surprise despite the poor jumps. His skating skills and movement in general are beginning to resemble what a good skater should be. Good job, Brian! Hope all this does not come too late.

Camden Pulkinen has the slowest and most lethargic free I have seen in a long long time.

Lukas Britschgi is getting the consistency and although the free might be slightly politically incorrect, it fitted him quite well.

Yuma was impressive in the short, but the free felt a little empty for me, especially the first part. He had started to seem overtly cautious and never really giving much to his performance, but maybe working with Carolina Koster is starting to show. I felt also that the choice of music was a little bit unfortunate since Adam did that so masterfully in his short last year and the way the choreo for Yuma went along, it was a little bit like a poor man's version of the same. He has maybe yet to find the jackpot music and program choice.

Ilia chose to attempt quality over difficulty and it could have worked out. He still has a lot of work in making the skating skills work for his adavantage - eg the steps were s---l---o---w and uninteresting. His presentation is empty posturing, not much feeling in it. He is still young, though, I do remember seeing Nathan Chen at about the same age in Worlds 2018 and being majorly disappointed. Nathan got a whole lot better in the 4 years that followed... I think the panel liked him a bit too much - those PCS were really not in line with what Yuma and Adam did.

But my heart and the evening belonged to Adam Siao Him Fa. This was his 5th competition this season - most top men do 5 over the entire season... He has being doing brilliantly so far and I dared to hope that he would be able to do two clean programs also here. The short was exquisite and the free even better. I have no superlatives left really. The control, the intensity, the beauty of every movement, the truth in how he feels the music. I just loved every second of it.

And at the same time I thought that, yeah, just an amazing performance and then the panel will give him 8.75s tops... Was somewhat delighted to see that it was mostly 9s and above in the end. But what does he have to do to get really good scores? Get a US, Japanese or Canadian passport (Russian does not count at the mo)? I thank the Finnish and Chinese judges for the high scores!

It was truly a good competion, I was totally exhausted after it ended, skipped pairs and victory ceremonies, and went to my lodgings to get some sleep...
I am not sure getting a Canadian passport would give anyone higher PCS, quite the contrary... but the rest of your post was definitely very interesting.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Country
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I'm sorry but I really can't help saying this. If you thought the men event was uninspiring (out of top 4 as you say), well then you probably didn't watch the women 😁 :slink:

In all honesty, men was the best part of this GP by a long way. At least you got some powerful skates. I was also hoping for some truly outstanding performance such as Kevin's FS, but well, those are hard to come by on a regular basis. Performances here were quite enjoyable anyway and most programs were well skated and felt lively and powerful.

And just to answer you latter post, yes, in fact, Kevin's is the only performance so far at the GPs that has truly moved me and that I would (and have) rewatch. I'm doubting we'll get anything else like that this season, they are not so many new programs that still remain to be seen.

You get me.

No, I did not watch the ladies. None of my favorites were there, and honestly, I think they're the least interesting discipline nowadays. In fact, I watched very little of the rest of the events. I might have watched Isabeau's programs... always nice to know how the winners skated. But from all accounts, they weren't as nice as SkAm, so what was the point in watching a poorer version of a program I wasn't over the moon with to start?

I caught Deanna and Max on replay, loved it. I'm crossing fingers for a WC gold.

I might catch the Canadian ice dance silver medalists. I've really enjoyed their programs in the past. If I got to choose, they'd be Canadian #1.

Edit: Obviously, Deanna and Max weren't here in France... I thought of them because a Canadian pair won and somehow I got flummoxed in the details... The gist stands. I hope they win a world title.
 
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Holy Headband

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
"Kagiyama shouldn't have picked RIYBE because it invites unflattering comparisons to the masterpiece by... Adam Siao Him Fa" is certainly a take lol

Kagi's FS is great. It's fine if it doesn't move you as much as your favourite skater's old program, but the choreo and performance quality are objectively not things he needs to work on.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Country
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I may be the wrong one to say anything (and my friend @TontoK may simply be frustrated by skaters of quality not reaching their potential, although I do not want to speak for him) since I have never been a "counting the medals" type fan.

but I also enjoyed some of the lower level skaters. In my skating fandom, I know that not everyone I love will medal. Heck, some may not make the final flight. I take them for where they are and hope they do better.

I do enjoy Landry LeMay, and seeing him so happy with a PB that would place him nowhere near the podium made me as happy as seeing Adam's joy at his win.

Luc, on the other hand, although I appreciate his odd SP music choices (certainly out of the box)< Chaplin programs will always send me scurrying for the mute and possibly even switching screens. No matter the cuts. I. Can't. Stand. Chaplin. Programs. signed, cranky El.
Thank you, and yes, you read me perfectly.

I will backtrack and give an example of a young non-top-tier skater I had forgotten that did impress me at Skate Canada.

Mikhail Shaidorov, the young man from Kazakhstan. Yes, I know he has a LONG way to go. But he doesn't strike me as a skater who is afraid of success. He had an opportunity, and he grabbed it.

PS, I hate Chaplin programs, too. They're probably my least favorite, tied with Sherlock Holmes. But at least Luc skated it well.
 

yuumagical

"There is always something to love."
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I would definitely change his programs though. I feel they are not chosen to show off his qualities best. They are also more or less warhorses. Unfortunately I don't have too much hope. He seems to like this kind of music and I don't see the team behind him changing things in that regard. But he has everything in regards to technique - amazing, fluent skating skills, precision, athleticism, bounce and he's a great dancer, very agile and precise. It has to be possible to show off these qualities more in your face so that people cannot miss them, and I think for a skater of his quality it's also adequate to come up with programs that are truely memorable. These are absolutely fine but in terms of choreo and music they will only be remembered as some good programs in a long row of Imagine Dragons and Rain programs.
I would like him to try something bold, like Pearl Jam's cover of "Love, Reign O'er Me" or something very swingy which requires dance abilities on the ice, either classical/ old lindy hop, or electro swing like Caravan Palace... I think he could also do a wonderful and memorable Uptown Funk...

Yuma doing Uptown Funk? Ooh, yes please!!! (A girl can only dream...) :love2:
Kind of off-topic here, but did you guys know that Yuma has actually skated to Uptown Funk before? ;) It's at about 1:25:15 in the video below.



It's unfortunate that the music started a little too early for him, but it's easy to wonder how a modern-day Yuma would perform it. 😁 I'm also wondering if he had a better performance of this at Medalist on Ice (the JNats gala) in 2019 or whether he used his other gala program...🤔
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Kind of off-topic here, but did you guys know that Yuma has actually skated to Uptown Funk before? ;) It's at about 1:25:15 in the video below.



It's unfortunate that the music started a little too early for him, but it's easy to wonder how a modern-day Yuma would perform it. 😁 I'm also wondering if he had a better performance of this at Medalist on Ice (the JNats gala) in 2019 or whether he used his other gala program...🤔


No, I didn't! Thanks!
 

ladyjane

Medalist
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Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
I had some wonderful evenings with the pairs, the ID and the men. I didn't watch the women because its my least favourite discipline. Adam was great, 2 wonderful programmes to watch. Loved Britschi, loved Kagiyama, Illia was okay (but still too much of a jumping bean for me to like watching) and I was very impressed by the French men. Great evening - both the SP and the FS.
 

throw_triple_flip

Final Flight
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Sep 7, 2023
Country
United-Kingdom
I thought 100% that Adam would win here. He's looked like a possible world contender all season so far. He's been so brilliant with the components side and step sequences, now he's upped his jump content too and it's looking consistent (those landings look more secure with each outing) really looking forward to seing him up against Shoma Uno at the Cup of China.

Yuma Kagiyama has always had such brilliant skating skills, but he's even better now and also more of a performer now too.

Imagine taking silver with 304. Wow.

I feel bad for Nikolaj Memola as he's clearly capable of more, I think he's a very charismatic performer but he seemed to be running out of steam at the end of his free.

I enjoyed both of Lukas Britschgi's programs, he's a good performer and his jumps look super strong. Love the choice of SP music. And I always enjoy a slightly underwhelming costume reveal.
 
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eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Did a bit of checking of quad counts and over the weekend, Ilia Malinin became the 22nd man in the history of quads to get over 100 attempts in international competition! The Lz combo was attempt 100 and he has now 101 under his belt. He had 79 at the beginning of the season and has done 4 competitions so far...

Adam was returning from injury last season and was only getting the 4Lz back towards the end of the season. He has done only 2+4 quad layouts this season, 5 times now, and this was his third set of only positive GOEs in the free. His consistency has been pretty remarkable especially thinking where he was in the spring!

As comparison, Ilia did 2+3 at ACI, 0+5 at Japan Open, and twice 2+4 in the GPs. The quads in the SA free were the only positive GOE set so far. Kao Miura is the third to try 2+4 this season at Finlandia Trophy and that was not a clean set.
 

Ali81

On the Ice
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Feb 11, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
I am astounded at how much Adam has improved. He is now a legitimate contender for world and Olympic gold. He absolutely deserved the win here without question. Probably by a higher margin.

Yuma was stunning. He is not at 100 percent yet,but he is a few notches above the rest in pure class.He will need a solid quad loop and all the jumps back at full strength to compete for the world and Olympic golds.

Lucas was amazing but that brilliant performance was blighted by the godawful music. A cacophony of sounds that have no cadence or cohesion or crescendo. Why didn’t he just skate to lion king or something. I also really enjoyed Luc Economides, a very charismatic performer.

If there is hype over Memola, I don’t get it. Hunched posture , arms flinging & flailing randomly with little nuance or sensibility. Sorry, I feel he is the fourth best of the Italian guys.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
I am astounded at how much Adam has improved. He is now a legitimate contender for world and Olympic gold. He absolutely deserved the win here without question. Probably by a higher margin.

Yuma was stunning. He is not at 100 percent yet,but he is a few notches above the rest in pure class.He will need a solid quad loop and all the jumps back at full strength to compete for the world and Olympic golds.

Lucas was amazing but that brilliant performance was blighted by the godawful music. A cacophony of sounds that have no cadence or cohesion or crescendo. Why didn’t he just skate to lion king or something. I also really enjoyed Luc Economides, a very charismatic performer.

If there is hype over Memola, I don’t get it. Hunched posture , arms flinging & flailing randomly with little nuance or sensibility. Sorry, I feel he is the fourth best of the Italian guys.

Pretty much agree on everything, except nobody should skate to Lion King. About Memola, it has to be said that the circumstances for him at this event with his boots and everything were terrible. However that's a question I am asking myself, why is there some hype about him? Seems to me people are mostly excited because he's so tall - and of course it's hard to do a quad when you're that tall, still that's not enough for me to get excited. Some of it may also come from him just being a nice person.
 

lariko

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Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
Memola is striking on ice and also he represents the trend to increasing field depth in Italy, and any country increasing depth/quality atm is a Good Thing as the ranks had been thinned so much, versus having the attitude of, "Figure skating? Ah, yeah, we have that one guy, he always goes. Send him," of some countries. We don't really see many tall men in leet singles skating atm. The long lines/presence are really nice for a change.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Lucas was amazing but that brilliant performance was blighted by the godawful music. A cacophony of sounds that have no cadence or cohesion or crescendo. Why didn’t he just skate to lion king or something. I also really enjoyed Luc Economides, a very charismatic performer.
I enjoyed the music. Always like something different. No more Lion King, please!
 

CrazyKittenLady

Get well soon, Lyosha!
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About Memola, it has to be said that the circumstances for him at this event with his boots and everything were terrible. However that's a question I am asking myself, why is there some hype about him? Seems to me people are mostly excited because he's so tall - and of course it's hard to do a quad when you're that tall, still that's not enough for me to get excited. Some of it may also come from him just being a nice person.
His impressive height is certainly a part of his appeal. I like the aesthetics of male skaters with long lines. So tall Nik already caught my eye during his junior days. Then last off-season he spent some time training in Canada and his cheeky insta posts about his adventures with "twin" Corey Circelli further endeared him to me.
But the real hype for me started when he turned up this season with competition ready quads. In juniors we used to wonder if he'd ever conquer the elusive quad jump given his physique, and there he was in his first senior season, not only with a 4T, but with a full-fledged 4Lz. For me it's just exciting to watch his progress. So much potential, how far can he make it? With Grassl out of the picture, I also think a young and hungry skater like Nik is important to push Matteo and Gabriele further. Milano 2026 is just around the corner and a strong Italian team will be a huge boost for the popularity of the figure skating competition.
 
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