40 Years Ago

[IDLERACER]

Click HERE. Many things immediately strike me as I watch this. First of all, the fact that it was only shot with one camera, which has it's advantages and disadvantages. You can really see how much ice she's covering, but facial expressions are impossible to discern. Also the fact that it didn't take place in a giant hockey arena, but a rink in which the seating only appears to be four or five rows high.

But what's most interesting about the performance is the fact that instead of front-loading like most of today's skaters are prone to do, she actually saves all the most difficult moves for the last couple of minutes. It's almost as if the first half serves as a warm-up for the second half. Killer layback and sitspins, even by today's standards.​

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Peggy was special.

Note the constant speed throughout and the relevance to the change of music tempo.
The poise, elegance and beauty of the stroking,and not stolpping to pose after the tricks.

The tricks for that era were good too. spread eagle into dble axel and a fabulous. layback. I think she could have scored high in 2006.

Joe

 

[Pixie Cut]

Obviously, Peggy (whatever we think of her as a TV commentator) was an extraordinary skater.

But another important point is that the basis of her skating was compulsory figures. It has repeatedly been said that skaters raised without figures will never have the same speed and edge control as someone like Peggy.

 

[childfreegirl]

Call me crazy, and I may be thinking completely COP influenced, or whatever, but she could've done so much more choreographically with the first part of that program. There was some footwork, sure, but most of it looked like she was just skating from jump to jump. However, I did enjoy watching it. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[Mathman]

Call me crazy, and I may be thinking completely COP influenced, or whatever, but she could've done so much more choreographically with the first part of that program. There was some footwork, sure, but most of it looked like she was just skating from jump to jump.

A beautifully skated program, but in general I think that's a good point about choreography. Maybe I'm a Philistine, but I rarely see anything remotely resembling "choreography" in figure skating performances, past or present.

In fact, in singles skating, once you get past Kurt Browning's "Singing in the Rain," the list gets kind of short.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a great competitive program, like Michelle's Aranjuez, however.

 

[SusanBeth]

I wish she had done more than the one program. The same one year in and year out gets old. I am not saying that she shouldn't have won because she skated an old program. That thinking is, IMO, absurd. I just wish we could have seen her compete to a wider variety of music.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I wish she had done more than the one program. The same one year in and year out gets old. I am not saying that she shouldn't have won because she skated an old program. That thinking is, IMO, absurd. I just wish we could have seen her compete to a wider variety of music.

Would you hold that against Sasha with Nino Rota's R&J? and Dark Eyes? Buttle, Shizuka - all repeats with the music.

I would like to see a tape of her nearest competitor and what she was doing 40 years ago.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Call me crazy, and I may be thinking completely COP influenced, or whatever, but she could've done so much more choreographically with the first part of that program. There was some footwork, sure, but most of it looked like she was just skating from jump to jump. However, I did enjoy watching it. Thanks for posting the link.

I have to call you crazy, dear childfreegirl. I don't think choreography was as much on the minds of judges as WOW moves and no falls, for that time span. Can you name a competitor of Peggy's 40 years ago who specialized in great choreography?

Joe

 

[SusanBeth]

Would you hold that against Sasha with Nino Rota's R&J? and Dark Eyes? Buttle, Shizuka - all repeats with the music.

I would like to see a tape of her nearest competitor and what she was doing 40 years ago.

Joe

It's not that I hold it against her. It's not that she repeated the program once. She skated the same program for most (1965- 1968) of her senior career. I just wish she had at least a few different programs. It seems a waste, but at least we have a huge number of her pro programs. She did have a great range. We just didn't see it until she turned pro..

 

[Mafke]

If you watch sakting from the 60's or 70's you need to remember a little of what skating was like.

Random points:

IIRC as an amateur (what they called 'eligible' then) Fleming's strength was in the compulsory figures, she was one of the better free skaters too, but won her titles on the strength of those figures, which may have boosted her free skating scores too as the judges had already invested in her. Actaully, her 68 olympic free skate was one of her weaker (if not weakest) amateur outings. She did become a great free skater in her professional career though. She was one of the very few skaters (and maybe the first?) to get better in almost every respect as a pro.

Free skating was _very_ constrained then. I once had a book on skating from the 50's that was full of weird stuff and a lot of it was based on what was considered good style/posture in figures. For example skaters weren't supposed to move their arms much in free skating, the ideal was elbows close the body, forearms parallel to the ice and fingertips pointing up. This was considered ideal posture and skaters were to maintain that as much as possible during their free skates.

Skating wasn't on tv very much then (just short hi-lites of US nationals and worlds, generally) and often they would just show the last half or so of a skater's free skate. Fleming skating the same program for several years was probably a good thing. With no VCR's people weren't going to get sick of it or anything and anything they recognized from one outing to the next was probably good.

Choreography is I think a relatively recent concern, not really being talked about much on tv until the late 80's early 90's. Even basic ideas of skating _to_ or _with_ the music (as opposed to exhibiting skating skills while music of some sort played in the background) really took a long time to develop, the Protopopovs, Janet Lynn and John Curry were the first to really merge skating and music in an integrated way in pairs, ladies and mens respectively.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks, Susan Beth. What a treat!

 

[SusanBeth]

I messed up that post while trying to fix a link. I don't know how I managed that. I am sorry.

Tons O' Choreography!
John Curry 1976 LP It doesn't get better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adU5dmsSEVg&search=john curry

Toller Cranston 1975 SP Choreography AND flare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgNG6yO6gJM&search=Toller Cranston

Janet Lynn 1972 Oly I wish we had the whole program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqemb5rfyQ&search=Janet Lynn

Janet Lynn 1970 One of my favorites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqKcvzsc5uA&mode=related&search=Janet Lynn

Lu Chen 1995 Cranston helped with the choreography here. Her 1996 and 1998 lps are great too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oevfpta3hf8&search=Lu chen

Michelle Lyra%

 

[Mathman]

Yeah, it was the first Janet Lynn link that was wrong, right?

I couldn't believe the John Curry performance! Plushenko and Yagudin ought to be ashamed to take the ice, LOL.

 

[SusanBeth]

Here's the Michelle Lyra link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBOvxdxRS4c&search=michelle kwan

Every time I try to fix something in the previous post, something else messes up. I am going to leave it alone before I somehow manage to wipe out the entire internet!

Curry's performance was wonderful! He didn't waste a note of that music!

 

[Dee4707]

Yeah, it was the first Janet Lynn link that was wrong, right?

I couldn't believe the John Curry performance! Plushenko and Yagudin ought to be ashamed to take the ice, LOL.

Math, I didn't watch any of the youtube videos but I just wanted to throw this at you based on your comment.



Dee

 

[childfreegirl]

Can you name a competitor of Peggy's 40 years ago who specialized in great choreography?

Joe

No I can't. Maybe I wasn't clear in my post, but what I meant to say, is that I prefer a program with a little more cheoreography. IMO, that wasn't the greatest piece of music, but I just think it had more potential. I understand that programs and expectations have changed evolved over the last 40, 30, 20, etc., years.

BTW, I specialize in crazy.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If Bolero belongs to Torvahl and Dean then Don Quixote belongs to John Curry!!!

After watching that performance, I don't want to see another skater use Don Q.

He's totally into the music on every beat. It is the audience that is reacting to his lyricism. No poses for the audience. they have to go after him. fabulous

What a shadow act he would have made with Kurt Browning.!

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

BTW, I specialize in crazy.

me too!! :yes:

Joe

 

[SusanBeth]

Math, I didn't watch any of the youtube videos but I just wanted to throw this at you based on your comment.



Dee

If it helps, Winter is definitely on my list too! I can't say that about Plushenko though.:disapp:

 

[Dee4707]

Thanks SusanBeth, I like to give Math a hard time.

Dee