A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[drivingmissdaisy]

I read one proposal that suggested using the SP results as the overall competition result, but I think there are potentially more fair ways of picking GPF finalists this year. I would propose this:

Step 1: Assume 5 GPF results (awarding 0 points for TEB) and pick the top 6 in each division. All of these athletes would qualify for the GPF. No TEB participants would be selected.
Step 2: For TEB skaters, use the better of (a) counting the SP as the final result or (b) double counting the other event and ignoring the skaters' TEB SP result.
Step 3: If the results from step 2 would place the skater in the top 6, the skater is added to the GPF line-up, resulting in a total of 7 or 8 skaters in each division.

To me, this seems like a fair compromise. No skater would be bumped from the event who would have otherwise qualified, and no skater who had a great chance to move up (i.e. Patrick, Liza) would be penalized for not having the opportunity to if they were strong in their other event.

Are there other fair ways you can think of to resolve the dilemma?

 

[Watermelondrea]

In all honesty, I still feel that using PB's is the way to go. But hey, that's just me...

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In all honesty, I still feel that using PB's is the way to go. But hey, that's just me...

It's a difficult situation. I thought maybe using the single best GP placement for every skater might work, using the in-place tie breaker system to pick among the 2nd place finishers if needed, but that gives TEB skaters only one shot for a good placement whereas others got two chances. So I think it's a similar problem for PB's because, again, the TEB skaters only got one opportunity.

 

[HanDomi]

the solution should be done the way that this will not affect skaters who where not a TEB at all


PB's is not the way to go because how you assume someone would have skated to their PB ? and that is automatically bad to skaters who did well in SP but their PB's are not as high as some others.



I am actually really surprised there is no rule already that if event can't be finished SP are the final results

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Precede the Grand Prix Final by a week or more with a qualifying round (LP only) for those at Bompard.

 

[mrrice]

Ok, I don't know if this would work in Figure Skating however, we had a situation at one of our Regional Competitions. A group had won the prelims and was to return the next day for finals. Their bus was involved in an accident with Injuries and the group missed their qualifying performance. Finalist's were selected by the average their 2 performances and it was not uncommon for a group to place 4th in prelims and then win the event with strong finals performance.

Groups hoping to qualify for nationals had to either Win a Regional or place in the top 3 at 2 Regionals. Top groups knew this rule and would often only schedule one Regional as they were clearly the best team at the event. The group involved in the accident was added to the next Regional for score only so they wouldn't be jeopardizing another team a shot at winning. Everything worked out well and the group involved did qualify and made it to nationals. I hope that made sense.

So, would it be possible to give a skater like Patrick the opportunity to skate for score only at another event??

 

[karne]

Here is why it is not fair to use the SP results only.

Skate America:
Shoma Uno
SP: 4
FS: 1
Final: 2

Jason Brown
SP: 8
FS: 3
Final: 3

Brendan Kerry
SP: 11
FS: 7
Final: 8

Elizabet Tursynbaeva
SP: 7
FS: 4
Final: 4

Nicole Rajicova
SP: 12
FS: 5
Final: 7

Skate Canada:

Yuzuru Hanyu
SP: 6
FS: 2
Final: 2

Timothy Dolensky
SP: 11
FS: 6
Final: 7

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
SP: 7
FS: 1
Final: 2

Gabrielle Daleman
SP: 8
FS: 3
Final: 5

Elizabet Tursynbaeva
SP: 12
FS: 4
Final: 7

Cup of China:

Han Yan
SP: 6
FS: 3
Final: 3

Elena Radionova
SP: 6
FS: 2
Final: 3


This is why it is not fair to use the SP results only. All of these skaters had a chance to redeem a poor SP with a great FS. And equally, while I was going through listing these, there was also plenty of movement the other way too.

 

[HanDomi]

So, would it be possible to give a skater like Patrick the opportunity to skate for score only at another event??

and what with other skaters? Chan will qualify with just SP anyway

 

[HanDomi]

This is why it is not fair to use the SP results only. All of these skaters had a chance to redeem a poor SP with a great FS. And equally, while I was going through listing these, there was also plenty of movement the other way too.

SP is as equally important as FS. You can loose it or win it with SP.

 

[hippomoomin]

Maybe just cancel GPF all together? For some reasons, I feel it is more fair this way than other solutions.

 

[karne]

SP is as equally important as FS. You can loose it or win it with SP.

But it is not. It counts towards the final result, but as the list above shows, you can have a poor SP and still redeem it in the FS.

 

[apgold]

Precede the Grand Prix Final by a week or more with a qualifying round (LP only) for those at Bompard.

I think this would be the only fair option. Not sure of the logistics (where would this be held, for instance) but they really ought to be given an opportunity to compete and get the real scores (not those based on SB or average or whatever). I also want to see them skate again before the final.

It's not like there's never been a LP only competition before (the Japan Open comes to mind).

 

[HanDomi]

But it is not. It counts towards the final result, but as the list above shows, you can have a poor SP and still redeem it in the FS.

You can or you can bomb even more than SP. You just don't know. Some just had bad luck and that's it. Sometimes sport is like this that someone wins thanks to luck and someone looses because of bad luck

 

[mrrice]

and what with other skaters? Chan will qualify with just SP anyway

Will he? If he doesn't need another event to qualify, I think he should head home and train for the GPF. I'm just thinking about the skaters who still need to qualify.

 

[HanDomi]

Will he? If he doesn't need another event to qualify, I think he should head home and train for the GPF. I'm just thinking about the skaters who still need to qualify.

Jason would need to win NHK I think, and that highly unlikely.

 

[karne]

You can or you can bomb even more than SP. You just don't know. Some just had bad luck and that's it. Sometimes sport is like this that someone wins thanks to luck and someone looses because of bad luck

How ambivalent about this would you be if this was Skate Canada, and you were told Hanyu would not get a chance to redeem himself after his overscored SP there?

People are forgetting that the GPF spots are only part of the puzzle. Prize money and ranking points also come into the equation.

 

[HanDomi]

How ambivalent about this would you be if this was Skate Canada, and you were told Hanyu would not get a chance to redeem himself after his overscored SP there?

Then he could have blamed only himself that he failed in SP.

 

[havefun]

Have skaters and a judging and technical panel convene via teleconference on a set time and day to skate and judge the Free Program. As close as possible to a time that is optimal for all participants. Have it monitored strictly by a delegated individual from the individual federations at each end. Not ideal but a consistent test for each skater.

 

[Rissa]

The fairest way is to redo the event. But it's infeasible.

The next best thing is SPs. It's what skaters earned unlike woulda coulda shoulda of some other ideas.

 

[moriel]

Cancel GPF.
To make it fair to everybody
1. Make an exibition instead, inviting all the GP skaters, so few ticket money is lost (people will still have a reason to go).
2. Donate the prize money from GPF to some charity of choice.